Do you forgive??

[sonicwhite]

I wrote this on another forum.

Kinda wanting yalls perspective.


In 05 I was beat up pretty badly. I was raped by two guards. I was traumatized and neglected in a jail while my marbles were lost.



I was cheated on. Humiliated by my ex. Her ultimate goal was to make me jealous. I was abandoned by everyone.



Yet despite all that was done to me. I forgive them all and wish for them to have a relationship with the Lord.



I truly do believe that love is the only way.



I turned it into a opportunity to learn rather then a time to fester my wounds and never get better. Is there still some vindication I want? Sure! But I look at my life being lost and I can never forget what it was like to be lost then found.

 

[PtahTek]

Personally: I have forgiven and forgot (buried). Burying these emotions are not healthy, IME: Can be quite destructive and cause problems
They will get what is coming to them... this is from decades of assessing what I see and experience. Probably no consolation but it is a small world and there are posing reactions to actions.
I was raped as a kid and still dealing with it... it's on me, I guess....
Vengeance against bullies was my "thing" back in the day. Still at over 50 I cannot tolerate it and will not.
Try not to let it destroy you or yours and maybe help giving others some first-hand empathy may make the greatest impact. IDK....
Looking for local "pay-it-forward" type programs to get involved with, recently. Give til it hurts. That would be always it would seem; though somehow very rewarding and enlightening.
Love always,
Ptah
Male or female? No difference really; just curious. Male, here.
There are streets of gold: They just been covered with bull-sh**. Gotta dig down to find the yellow-brick road.

 

[sonicwhite]

I?m a male. It was pretty bad all that I went through.

And yes I?m my experience burying it does make it worse.

 

[sonicwhite]

By being hurt like I have, I have learned love is the only way.

 

[Mafioso]

I agree forgiving or letting go is an important part of getting over past trauma. I don't think we always need to forgive though. If the person is offering an apology then I guess it can be considered, and I see how understanding the event(s) as someone making a mistake, but a matter of personal safety always comes into question. Also, I can see how forgiving someone internally can be freeing but I personally don't really care to go back and confront my abusers and be reminded of the past by seeing them all the time. I'm not a psychologist and I believe confrontation in this circumstance could have some merit, but really when dealing with things like narciscism it can be potentially bad to be freely forgiving.

 

[neversickanymore]

I think we need to forgive or we end up carying the hate and pain they saddled us with. I believe that forgiveness is for us. I'm not carying that, but i also care not if the people who wrong me find salvation or even lunch money.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Depends on what it is... Most people are shit you probably wouldn't associate with anyone if you never forgave anything.

 

[Xorkoth]

Forgiveness is for us, not for the one we're forgiving. In the case of abuse, forgiving someone internally means letting go of the pain and anger, and moving on. I don't think it's at all necessary to confront them and forgive them to their face. The most significant part of forgiveness is doing it for yourself, not for the other person.

 

[sh1vambuDancer]

I feel, through my experience(sexual abuse, and narcissistic psychological and physical abuse), that forgiveness can be reached to a certain level inside...tolerance, compassion, and letting go of the pain inside, the body holds the trauma...so if we can let go I'd say a confrontation isn't "necessary"

That being said, I have confronted my mother (the NPD) but not confronted the sex perp, and my healing and my journey to be a empowered man shall not work unless I do it. I'd think "what if", and feel I never stood up for myself, even if it was post de facto.


Look at it this way - you can learn to be the victim who needs to forgive, or you can flip the script and see it that these people taught you that you can't hold your own, and can't discern who is a good partner yet. Your skills in life could do with a bump (I know, because this is what the external is showing us - be RESPONSIBLE for ourselves)

Forgiveness best comes when the person knows they did something which rocked our world, that was bad, and they feel shame and remorse for.

 

[PtahTek]

Forgiveness best comes when the person knows they did something which rocked our world, that was bad, and they feel shame and remorse for.

Yeah the main contributor in my situation is past. Some cannot control themselves. I think we all have thought of a way to take a dumb sumbitch out (re: "offender") but most of us probably haven't committed to and/or executed theses "fantasies": Some do... what makes one act-out and another not is a mystery to me. Profiling is an art (as opposed to science), IMO. I did not fit many a profile but I attribute this to that sad song I sing of being all at once and only a facet or two is visible to most: People usually see what they want, anyway. Obviously I would not be profiled as a danger to myself or others or I would not be posting here. I am a free man and will do what I must to remain so. Vengeance is sweet but the after-taste may be sickening.
They knew what the fu** they were doing.... It's OK in some cultures. Helps a bit. lol

Forgiveness is for us, not for the one we're forgiving... I don't think it's at all necessary to confront them and forgive them to their face. The most significant part of forgiveness is doing it for yourself, not for the other person.

Agreed in most part as confrontation would not be advisable with my sh**: Surely the gates of hell would open and the whore of babylon would appear riding my co** and lopping heads off those who have ever committed abomination(s) (real or imagined) against I.
Hehehehe

 

[Eleusis]

I find it hard to forgive. I try to acknowledge what's happened, and move past it, no matter how alluring visions of vengeance might be. I try to move forward and fight for my little moments of happiness. Life is difficult to bear, and I find I can't stomach it most of the time. Luckily I've been gifted small, beautiful moments in my life which have given me hope. I try to live my life with purpose and with dignity, and I try to do right by people.

 

[PtahTek]

^^^ Valiant.
Agreed; We have to move past any obstacles (through, around, over, under etc.) that may be a road-block or speed-bump in our lives. Part and parcel. Daily driver....

.... Life is difficult to bear, and I find I can't stomach it most of the time. Luckily I've been gifted small, beautiful moments in my life which have given me hope. I try to live my life with purpose and with dignity, and I try to do right by people.

Those small glimpses of what's good gets me through each day. One genuine smile from an individual can/will change my attitude at any given moment. It would be foolish of me to turn a blind-eye to the "evil" that runs rampant but, hey, whaddayado?
Dignity:
There is little left and less respect. We will see how this works out.
Moving with purpose is essential, IMO, to avoid getting trapped-off or side-tracked.
And the right thing can be interpreted in many a way: I believe I know where you are coming from as karma (for lack of a better word) can bring some crisis that can hurt in more than one way. Lived it. Over it. Looking for a nice ride out for the rest of our lives but am prepared for the worst (I think).
Be one,
ptah

 

[aihfl]

Christ did nothing wrong! NOTHING! Nailed on the cross by His own ppl. His original bride. They nailed their husband to the cross.

So in doing so Jesus nail a certificate of divorce to the cross and the Promise that His Kingdom was hidden from them.

Sonic, I think you're a good guy and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but please understand that this can also be taken to be borderline anti-Semitic. There are Jews around here, namely me.

As for the topic of forgiveness, I agree with Nutty. I probably wouldn't leave my house if I were unable to get over stuff. Not to mention the person you're busy nursing a grudge against probably couldn't give less of shit, so the only person you're harming is yourself.

 

[fairnymph]

I support Israel I really do. I wasn?t trying to bash Jews. What I was saying is that the Jews which where the Pharisee told Pilate to crucify Jesus. A Jew.

You have to have a mind blowing revelation of who Jesus really is. What He came here for. If you don?t have those revelations then it is very hard to see what happened. Now don?t get me wrong. White, black Asian Hispanics everyone is responsible for crucifying Jesus. The Pharisee hated Him because they thought their righteousness merit them going to heaven.


I?m a Jew in the inside. I love everything about the OT AND NT. I love their way of life and cherish everything about them.


I wouldn?t lie to you either about it. Ppl like Roger Waters are more Anti Semitic then I will ever be.


And I think it?s even cooler to see that about you.


My apologies tho if I?ve offended you.

SOME Jews, if that; I'm not personally interested in Jesus so I don't know much about this topic, but I can certainly see how grouping us all together would be offensive - I find that highly annoying. There have been many sects within Judaism for thousands of years & there is much disparity of thought/belief. I am also Jewish (spiritually, I'm a convert). Btw I don't think supporting Israel is necessarily relevant, as not even all Jews support Israel. I don't think your posts were intended to offend but I can see how some would be offended, especially given the emphasis & lack of tone. Also, someone being MORE offensive doesn't make being LESS offensive okay - bad logic.

Back on topic, I agree with SM. Forgiveness is for we who have been wronged. It's generally a good thing, freeing & healthy. But it can also have negative consequences; I've been taken advantage of a lot bc I'm so forgiving (& also too trusting, not the best combo), particularly by narcissists & sociopaths (my mom & brother, yay). I had to learn the hard way to just completely cut them out of my life. My mom is now dead, but I don't forgive her, or my brother. There are a few other people who have badly betrayed & hurt me whom I doubt I will forgive, though thankfully, I spend very little time thinking of these people.

My real problem is self forgiveness & guilt, & avoiding dwelling on my past mistakes & regrets. I also am unwilling to accept my current physical reality. I try to keep my problems within myself so as not to burden others, though I'm sure that's not healthy. Basically I'm my own worst enemy.

 

[sonicwhite]

I do understand the not being able to forgive myself.

When I think of all who did me wrong a rubberband effect happens and I think to myself well I wasn?t totally innocent either.

Not to downplay what happened to me. I think well I was smoking dope, breaking into places. Having depraved sex and just tearing peoples hearts up. You reap what you sow type of thing.


So I kinda look at it like I deserved everything that happened to me. It really does a number on my relationship with God. Cuz I start to think every little bad thing is His hand of justice.


I will tell anyone here. It?s not healthy to be so hard on yourself. The one thing tho I know how to do is forgive others. So I guess I?ll keep that if that?s all I have.

 

[fairnymph]

Yes, it's easy to go down that path if you believe in karma/God, as do I. Though I don't think God is involved on such an intimate level. Still, I find it very comforting believing that a higher power assures justice in the end. Sometimes I struggle with that faith, especially when it seems I've been overly punished, but i know my perception is incredibly limited compared to God's. What doesn't kill you mskes you stronger...maybe what I consider punishment is actually a reward in disguise.

 

[aihfl]

I don't think your posts were intended to offend but I can see how some would be offended, especially given the emphasis & lack of tone.

I'm not particularly offended, however, I did grow up in the American south where evangelical fundamentalist Christianity is dominant and many people view Judaism (and Roman Catholicism for that matter) with anything from skepticism to outright hostility. Like people who were constantly pointing out Jews killed Jesus, to the kid in my high school who was going to "kick my ass" for pointing out Jesus was a Jew.

Anyway, I don't want to see this thread closed, so let's stay on topic.

 

[Mafioso]

Honestly as an atheist I don't find it hard to see how most any religious claim can become offensive. You don't need to be a historian to know that religions all have bloody pasts, and without getting into any specifics, claims of divinity have been at the center of countless evils from manipulation to fighting over who is right and true. It can be said it separates people as much as it brings them together, as it perpetuates a tribalistic manner of thinking, with every tribe holding claim to absolute truth while none being able to prove it.

With that said, this is the final warning. This thread is becoming more centered on religion rather than the original topic of forgiveness, specifically forgiving an abuser. Referencing a religious text(outside of a religious debate) does nothing to further your point, it only shifts the topic to religion. If you believe something but can not explain the logical reasons as to why, it doesn't really make a difference why you believe it.


So, let's focus back on forgiving. How do you define forgiving someone? The definition I am familiar with is "to cancel a debt", but it can also be defined as "stop feeling angry or resentful toward someone for (an offense, flaw, or mistake)" or "excuse or regard indulgently one's foibles, ignorance, or impoliteness." The second 2 definitions are interesting to me because they seem to imply a sort of social contract in which we are obligated to act in a certain way, and breach of this contract would require either a cancelation of this debt(forgive) or a repayment(revenge).

Is there a limit to how much you should forgive someone? Should there be?

 

[aihfl]

I'm moving this to Philosophy & Spirituality. I think there's some interesting discussion taking place on religion but it is not TDS material, and the topic of forgiveness isn't entirely irrelevant to P&S.

TDS --> P&S

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Never fails to blow my mind that people grab onto just one faith & 99.9% of the time it's the same faith they have been raised around.
I was baptised COE (Church Of England) & was raised by a woman who calls herself a Christian, yet I give more respect & faith to Mexican Folks Saints & have a DEEP love & respect for the Hindu Vedas & the old Nordic faiths than anything from the Jews & their strange customs.

You'll catch me dancing round to songs in praise of Kali before you would see me singing praise to "Jesus"

As to the first post question try to forgive but if it is a real bad thing someone has done to you imho all bets are off,, use any method to destroy the person & make their life hell (from doxing them & making up stuff to black majick)