Do you believe in the saying “too Far gone” / incapable of sobriety?

[OpiateKiller]

Do you guys believe some people are too far gone to recover from drugs and alcohol?

Do you believe some people are incapable of remaining sober?

I ask this because I should have been scared straight. I have no plausible explanation for repeated drug and alcohol use. I know my life could be great sober, but I have failed over and over again to realize my potential.

I’ve been locked up, I’ve overdosed 6 times, I’ve seen what a sober life can be ( and even been happy sober for brief periods ). But for whatever reason I resort to drugs and alcohol and I really cannot explain. I have no explanation. It is truly incredibly baffling. People care about me but I can’t care enough about myself to stay off of all mind alternating substances...

I don’t have a victim mentality. I know I’m a drug addict... I just got clean off heroin again .. almost a month sober, but I just drank 8 beers.. and I didn’t even really want to.

Why can’t I just put this shit down? Why the fuck can’t i just stop? It is so god damn maddening I can’t even explain the trials and tribulations of a drug addict. Do I just not want to live? Cause I have a good life... everything is GOOD. Is AA right? Are we really powerless unless we abide by the program and follow the rules? Fuck man sometimes I wish I just was dead already - but not cause I’m suicidial I enjoy life but I CANT stay sober. It’s like I’d rather die than humble myself enough to raise my hand or tell a therapist I’m incapable of self will. It is so frustrating to be unable to control myself.

I can’t explain it. Like Today I was on auto pilot.. went to a great AA meeting heard a message of recovery and when I left the gym after I drove straight to the gas station and bought a 30 pack.

What the fuck is wrong with me? Why can’t I just live a good life? Cunning baffling and powerful. But I’d rather die before i raise my hand and poor my emotions out as the burning desire at a meeting...

So what the hell is the problem? Is my ego bigger than my own life that I would rather die than admit I can’t do this shit? Fuck this has been the dilemma of my entire existence.

What the fuck do I do guys?

 

[nuttynutskin]

Yeah I think some people are too far gone unfortunately or just don't care, but you don't sound like you are. I guess you gotta ask yourself do you really want to be sober, and if so how are you gonna get there? What's the incentive for you to be sober? If you don't really want it you won't succeed obviously. For me it really just took amounting enough clean time and finding some healthy outlets.

 

[Iceman1216]

For me the turning point was when I enjoyed be Clean and Sober more than Drunk and High.
I have found great success in enjoying sober / clean time More than NEEDING it !
I do not believe that Anyone is to far gone or incapable of getting clean & sober.
I had a 72 year old man join my group, ( 60 years of drinking hard Qt/day , Beers did not count) and was sober for 12 years till he passed

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

I was beyond "Too far Gone" and managed to come back.

It's possible but hard work, to be sure.

 

[wizardknight17]

I don't believe in "too far gone" at all. However I do believe in a certain thing or things having to happen to get clean and zero chance until those things happen (whatever they may be, different for each person). I feel like many people die before reaching whatever qualifications they need to have happen to become clean. I've overdosed on multiple drugs multiple times and so far always made it out the other side while many of my friends did not make it. Why did I make it and they didn't? I have not been interested in life for a long time now and the only logical explanation I can come up with is fate. So no. I don't believe anyone is "too far gone" but I do believe many die before reaching that magical moment when your brain finally says "alright. I've had enough of this shit. Time to get clean. " and with enough cycles of drugs your chances of making it back another time diminishes.

 

[Mafioso]

Do you guys believe some people are too far gone to recover from drugs and alcohol?

Yes. There comes a point when the physical damage done to the body is too great, and the person is either dying or essentially on their death bed. Heavy alcoholics come to mind, where the alcohol has damaged organs beyond repair and a transplant is necessary but the person physically can't sustain sobriety long enough to even qualify for a transplant, let alone survive the waiting period. Or someone who is on life support after an overdose on heroin, although all these would be a case by case basis, and seemingly miraculous recoveries do happen. Imo, you are still in the fight as long as you have life.

Do you believe some people are incapable of remaining sober?

Some people definitely seem to struggle with it more than others. It's a complicated issue though, as addiction is said to be a biopsychosocial disease, meaning it has biological, psychological, and social causes. You must first posses the genetics that allow you to become addicted, or enjoy the drugs or alcohol essentially. Not everyone enjoys the feeling of opioids, and I personally don't enjoy the feeling of alcohol. It's difficult to say what is the next biggest factor, as psychological and social factors seem equally important and intertwined. Things like childhood trauma can greatly increase the risk factor of having a drug problem later on in life. Early emotional problems can lead to social difficulties, compounding the emotional problems, which feeds this vicious cycle.

That is not to say that there is only one path to addiction, but instead that the path to recovery may be more difficult for some. No one is incapable of being sober, at least by the definition of abstaining from addictive substances. I would argue that some may need certain medications to cope with certain disorders, things like mania and psychosis come to mind.

Why can’t I just put this shit down? Why the fuck can’t i just stop?

It is a hard question to answer, but I'd have to know more about you before even attempting. The short answer is that you can, you just need to keep focused on the long term goal of sobriety. Don't beat yourself up over one minor relapse to the point that you feel worthless and give up/give in to the urge even more. Get past this set back, then work on your plan to stay sober. Perhaps you need a sponsor/sober buddy that you can call and go get coffee next time you feel like this. Or whatever it may be.

Is AA right? Are we really powerless unless we abide by the program and follow the rules?

To a degree. You must follow some program, and abide by the rules of the program of your choice. You don't need 12 steps, but if the 12 steps is what you choose then you need to follow those rules. I don't believe in the idea of god, but I understand the notion of "giving it up to a higher power". Your subconscious will still crave the reward that drugs bring, and you will find yourself trying to convince yourself in all sorts of ways that it's ok to feed that craving.

I really don't like the idea of powerless though, because it is your decision to follow the program or not. And if you don't follow the rules, you still have the power to change and decide to follow the rules.

Do I just not want to live? Cause I have a good life... everything is GOOD.

I think that is being a bit dramatic and harsh. 8 beers doesn't mean your life is shit. It might just mean that you like beer. The solution might be finding something you like more than beer that provides a similar type of excitement or enjoyment.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Yes. There comes a point when the physical damage done to the body is too great, and the person is either dying or essentially on their death bed. Heavy alcoholics come to mind, where the alcohol has damaged organs beyond repair and a transplant is necessary but the person physically can't sustain sobriety long enough to even qualify for a transplant, let alone survive the waiting period.

That's what I was thinking... Or someone that's got permanent brain damage like with korsakoff syndrome. Really just depends what someone defines as "too far gone" I guess.

 

[weekend addiction]

I have no problem being sobe. I can get sober and be sober for long periods of time (month or two). But I'm never happy. Cause really I just wanna keep getting high. I am entirely convinced that that's the way it will be for the rest of my life. I can force myself to abstain but it's not the life I want and I'm miserable this way.

I don't even wanna work when I'm sober. IIjust want to be high and that will never change. So even though I'm sober 35 days now it won't last because I will always want to get high regardless of the consequences.

 

[weekend addiction]

And for me any way there is no finding things I like more than drgs. Nothing beats a goodd high by the way the drug I'm manly talking about here is weed. And it's gonna cost me my wife and kid if I go back to it and I will Polly ed up homeless cause I won't ick her out of the apartment and I can't anyway. So yah I'd rather live o. The streets and llose my family,my beautiful daughter and everything I own..... Than to not smoke pot. In too far gone.

 

[Ganjcat]

Nah its never to late

 

[Xorkoth]

It's never too late but it does get harder the longer you're in it. What it takes is something to make you really want to change. Besides that though, once you're sober you need to actually do something with your time. I know for me, when I'm bored, I get self-destructive eventually. So I fill my rime with making music and hiking and doing stuff I love to do. I still struggle with doing drugs too much, mostly because my lifestyle (I'm in 2 bands) has drugs everywhere, but I'm happy when I'm sober. Before I started playing music again I was never happy when I was sober because I needed something to fill that void.

 

[Ganjcat]

I didn't know you were in a band shadow I agree 100% pal it defo gets harder but some kind of pure none synthetic motivation can be all some people need to get off the drugs me personally i dont wanna get off the drugs and i dont think anyone does 100% after having that taste for the drug especially opiates unless something real bad happens like they get so pissed up off booze they stomp on someones face and get sent down for a long time like someone i know or even worse than that stories ive read where someone drink driving ran their daughter over not realising it was their own daughter, not that its excusable under any cicumstances shit like that would just mess you up maybe more than the drug you taking its either take the drug forever to try and block out the pain or just deal with the pain btw i think drunk drivers are fucking selfish bastards my mum and her mate used to do it say what you want about me and my drug use but I've never put others life on the line cus im to fucked up/lazy to walk home i dont even drive i got my free bus pass its all i need :D

 

[Xorkoth]

Personally I got off opiates because I was addicted to them for 10 years. For the first 5 or 6 years it was great, but then things started to crumble. By the end I hated myself so bad that I wanted to die. I hated everything about living and was a shell of a human. I just couldn't stop though, mostly because opiates were the only way I could not feel suicidal. I did ibogaine in 2014 right after my ex and I split up, and I have never touched another opiate or wanted to because ibogaine seemed to break the spell, I realized rationally how destructive it was.

That being said, I still do other drugs, I'm a full-on drug user still. I've had problems with other things since, too, which I've struggled with and moved past (alcohol, GHB, stimulants), or am still somewhat moving past in the case of alcohol/stims. I have no plans to ever quit using psychedelics but I do want to get to the point where those are all I use, just occasionally when the time is right. It's a work in progress.

I don't think drugs are inherently bad, but some drugs are bad for some people in some situations, and a lot of people ruin their lives, at least temporarily, with various drugs. For me, opiates were the most destructive of all drugs, and as a result, I will never touch them again, which is fine by me at this point. Not sure where I'd be without ibogaine, it really was a turning point. I like to think I'd have found my way out into a healthy mindstate... but ibogaine was like a miracle, it was like I woke up from a nightmare and was myself again a week after my flood dose. No PAWS or anything.

I know people never want to hear it and let it go in one ear and out the other, but I have seen so many Bluelighters start innocently with opiates and then before you know it, shit hits the fan and they disappear, or overdose, or struggle for years. Sometimes they recover. My advice is always to stop while you're ahead. Best case scenario with opiates (recreationally that is, for pain it's another story), you get high, feel good, come down, you didn't gain anything. But a large percentage of the time you end up eventually with a soul-destroying addiction that many people never recover from. I truly, truly wish to express the depth of the horror that is a severe drug addiction (not just opiates). It's no joke guys. Think really hard about getting into hard drugs.

If anyone is interested I wrote a "trip report" that describes the descent into addiction as it happened to me: Description of the Opiate High