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Do you believe dissociates could be used safely as an antidepressent?

Transcendence

Transcendence

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,502
This isn't a question I'm asking for myself, I'm just curious what others think. Do you think dissociatives have a future as a practical alternative to SSRIs in treating major or minor depression?

On one hand there's a very obvious potential for abuse that SSRIs don't have, and those who are depressed are more likely to abuse drugs.

On the other hand, the anti-depressive effect of compounds such as MXE or ketamine is immediate (unlike SSRIs that take several weeks) and there are reports that dissociatives are effective in treating individuals who don't respond to traditional antidepressants.

In an ideal future, I can see dissociatives being used to treat depression analogously to how benzodiazepines are used in treating anxiety. Typically for GAD, a psychiatrist will prescribe a benzo until the SSRI kicks in. Why not prescribe dissociatives for depression until the SSRI kicks in?

*I posted this in PD instead of Healthy Living because I think the regulars here are more likely to have experience with dissociatives, but move if necessary.
 
even aside from the potential long-term health hazards, i don't think this is a sustainable approach to solving the wealth of problems that fall under the "depression" umbrella. altho it might definitely give a short-time relief that can give one a very helpful push.

this is just my gut feeling, and i know that the potential health hazards (as well as its 'antidepressant' behaviour) have been examined recently in medical literature--you might find more information there..
 
well i use K to unwind.

Your chatting 1 - 2 times a month Maximum. no more than 200mg Each time.

But sometimes i dont use it for weeks.
But at the end of the day, as ive found, you CANT evade your problems forever, You have to sort them out eventually, This could be:
- Present situation causing you mental stress and harm
- Past situations and trauma during your life, particularly your childhood


Although, if someone was depressed because they had lost limbs or something then i dont see how that can be solved,
 
darksidedsam said:
well i use K to unwind.

Your chatting 1 - 2 times a month Maximum. no more than 200mg Each time.

But sometimes i dont use it for weeks.
Click to expand...

if you only use it once or maybe twice per month maximum, then i can definitely understand that you don't use it for weeks sometimes =D

Although, if someone was depressed because they had lost limbs or something then i dont see how that can be solved,
Click to expand...

lol, that Vice magazine interview on methoxetamine had the interviewee explain about the effects of dissociatives on his phantom limb pain, pretty interesting!
would be cool to hear more about that mechanism, actually...
 
darksidedsam said:
You have to sort them out eventually, This could be:
- Present situation causing you mental stress and harm
- Past situations and trauma during your life, particularly your childhood
Click to expand...

i have to admit that dissociatives can be extraordinarily insightful, and sometimes they make me make sense of the course of my life, indeed even of well-buried memories, and force me to think about my potential future. ahem.
 
I think that they could, however I don't think they ever will. More likely MXE will stimatized and demonized by the media and governments.

Though none of that changes the fact that MXE has been more healing for me than any other drug, to my anxiety and depression. I have a addictive personality and tend to go through my drugs quickly until there is none left, I used MXE twice last week and haven't touched the rest of my gram after a very difficult and scary trip (or any of my other drugs). That trip was not really enjoyable at all but the after effects have been, over the last week I have come to accept my anxiety and move on which has reduced it greatly rather than trying to fight it or stop it all the time. Depression wise, I can't even tell myself that I am a shit person since that trip, I can't even doubt myself and have been truly happier, I don't know how long this will last but if or when it does come back, that will be the next time I touch my MXE.

Ever since I developed anxiety and depression this has been a sought after effect for me from psychedelics and it has taken a lot of different drugs to find the right one and I can say it has helped me more than any benzo or anti-depressant I have tried
 
The Short Answer to this Thread is.

If a Person has GREAT CONTROL over their drug use, and can definately not let it spiral out of control, Then the answer i believe, Is YES

Its very nice to have the option there...
I was going through a very VERY rough patch a while ago, and i was planning my own death, But. Instead i went to a peaceful location, Did ketamine, and i guess i meditated in a way as i lay down on the grass , Headphones to protect my ears from Earwigs and provide me with calm Psytrance.
...The Thoughts of Suicide Left me , and i was at Peace
.....,,,Andd im still Alive :)
I have no Real desire to do more K, Although i look forward to my next useage.
In my Eyes Less is More.
Less Tolerance, More effective! Less Cost too!
 
well there are lots of diagnostic problems with what we generally refer to as "depression" for some types of depression NMDA antagonists have been shown to be quite effective, and for most types of depression SSRIs have been shown to be ineffective (or only as effective as placebo rather). The good thing about NMDA antagonists for depression is that they require much less frequent administration than SSRIs or other antidepressants. In fact a single dose has been shown to be effective for at least one week, in my experience, about 2 weeks. There is however the abuse potential. The problem there is not so much with the drug itself, but how drugs are usually prescribed in modern western (particularly american) medicine. I would think for severely depressed a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly visit to a doctor or psychiatrist for a supervised dosage of an NMDA antagonist could very well be the most effective treatment for depression found thus far. However, i'm unsure as to whether or not something like that could happen. I certainly hope so though.
 
well there are lots of diagnostic problems with what we generally refer to as "depression" for some types of depression NMDA antagonists have been shown to be quite effective, and for most types of depression SSRIs have been shown to be ineffective (or only as effective as placebo rather). The good thing about NMDA antagonists for depression is that they require much less frequent administration than SSRIs or other antidepressants. In fact a single dose has been shown to be effective for at least one week, in my experience, about 2 weeks. There is however the abuse potential. The problem there is not so much with the drug itself, but how drugs are usually prescribed in modern western (particularly american) medicine. I would think for severely depressed a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly visit to a doctor or psychiatrist for a supervised dosage of an NMDA antagonist could very well be the most effective treatment for depression found thus far. However, i'm unsure as to whether or not something like that could happen. I certainly hope so though.
 
Absolutely!

Ketamine is not ideal because it lasts too short and begs for abuse.

Methoxetamine is a wonder drug in this aspect. Tiny doses work both as NDMA antagonists and dopamine reuptake inhibitors... brilliant combination for depression.

Self control is essential, but once one finds that there's little value in trying to use Methoxetamine as a drug to get "fucked up" and realizes that less is more, this is some powerful antidepressant stuff with incredibly few side effects when used properly.

I look forward to other drugs like Methoxetamine being invented and I really hope this substance does not become demonized.
 
I sat in on a presentation by Evgeny Krupitsky at a conference earlier this year, and the results of his work are quite very interesting. His research has been mainly about alcoholics and other drug addictions, but it incorporates psychotherapy and, I bet, the basis of the work lies in treating the underlying psychological problems of the participants. It's called KPT (ketamine psychedelic therapy) and it is based around just that, the awareness that results from life-changing psychedelic experiences.

You can find papers on his work at maps and the heffter institute amongst other places. Here's a ten year follow-up paper. (from MAPS).
 
I'm sure it can. Someone I know even used trytamines. Nothing can be worst than the SSRIs they prescribe now. I really don't believe in antidepressants. They should be called emotional supressors. No one stops being depressed, they just can't feel it (its like heroin for the brain).
 
I think that the frequency of use here is the most important factor. Also, I'm sure that treatment with dissociative s would be greatly aided by a skilled therapist, the insights of dissociation can become so subjective and disconnected from reality that they lose their validity. I have experienced both great relief from depression through dissociative experience, and also delved deep into depersonalized hopelessness with repeated use. These days I do my best to restrict use to once a month max. The best substance for this that I have found so far is 4-meo-pcp. Strongest afterglow from any drug that I have ever experienced. Unfortunately I learned that the batch I used contained PCC, a toxic byproduct of synthesis. So I imagine without the PCC it would be a far more effective antidepressant. To me the key aspect of the dissociative state is the experience of taking your mind/identity totally apart and reconnecting with the universe, then slowly placing your mind/identity back together in a more intentional way. This process, for me, is always aided by combining the dissociative with a psychedelic, simple tryptamines like DMT and mushrooms have worked best in my experience.
 
In my dreams I dose myself with methoxetamine a few times a day, ever since it came into my hands. I was clinically depressed from age 12 to 19 and now that I have this stuff at my disposal I can honestly say it's my anti-depressant. It saves my life. It brings me back when I'm not okay. It shows me the light. It tells me that everythings going to be okay. But when I overdo it, it does make me think everyone's out to get me, and it sometimes causes me to lie to the ones I love most. Small doses are life-saving and life-changing. High doses are also very insightful but delusions sometimes overtake the whole thing, but once you realize it's just the m hole and reality is there, it reminds you that the world is beautiful and amazing and intricate and just bonkers. ...... 33441154456522
 
I have this idea psilocin might help as well; they reduce bloodflow to the thalamus and another part of the brain also blocked by nmda-antagonists, so while it isn't a dissociative in a classical sense it does act a bit as one, and appearantly depression can be caused by the thalamus being overactive, atleast that's what one article somewhere said. If that is true, dissociatives likely work in the same way against depression, so both should work.

I find even when not depressed (I've never been depressed and I'm not depressed now and it's unikely I'll ever be depressed) I get a strong moodlift after either ketamine or mushrooms for up to two weeks that isn't too different for either drug. First few days the feeling is strongest, then slowly fades back into normal, actually I'd say mushrooms have the best weeks after, although ketamine has me feeling serene long, long after it wears off too. I also notice this from LSD but then I refer to it as an afterglow. Either way, all these substances seem to have that long lasting moodlift and I'm sure something that works for depressed people properly and is safe can be made based on this reasonably new information.
 
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