Do we need to reevaluate "set and setting"? Psilocybin question.

[al-laddin]

Im in a horribly depressed shit fucking mood....have been for several days. Im having financial troubles and I want nothing more than to feel inspired as I havnt felt this "stuck" and depressed in ....well, I cant remember the last time Ive felt this down. Its like the stress is crippling to the point where I don't feel like I can get out of my situation. Like when I try and focus I feel pain and panic. Its quite similar to the desperation one feels when one loses a loved one.

So I have access to some mushrooms. I don't want to use them as an escape. Alcohol and other numbing drugs do just fine for that but they get me no where fast. I would like to use psilocybin as a source of inspiration and as an antidepressant. My current state of depression is not "chemical". Its more from a series of events much in the "when it rains, its pours" type of way. I guess everything is chemical but this is a result of events.

So after these new scientific studies resulting in positive results in regards to mental health, Im wondering if the mind set is all that important to do some mental cleansing work. I mean we have all heard the infamous mantra "set and setting" but the studies Ive read about were done on terminally ill patients in which Im assuming mind set is far from "appropriate". So I ask you people of bluelight is this recommended? Have any of you had success treating your own issues this way or am I better off not messing with this stuff in such a state of mind?

 

[rpm]

Well I wouldn't like to say for sure what would work for you.

I was once in a similar situation. Low mood, feeling stuck, things pretty shit. Decided to take a whopping dose of 2cb and 4acodmt. Thought I was going to die for like an hour. Then realized I wasn't and life had never seemed so amazing. Coming out of the trip I felt my mood improved. Started making changes to get myself out of the rut. Did more work. Got on with things. Generally was re imbued with a sense of how lucky it is to be alive.

As Hunter s Thompson once said: "I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs, or insanity to anyone, but they have always worked for me"

 

[donvliet]

No one knows what will happen if you decide to take the shrooms in your current mindset. It could be very therapeutic, or it could result in a very difficult experience with possible harmful outcome. Partly it depends on how experienced you are in handling bad/difficult trips, and in tripping on shrooms in general. A sitter would be advisable if you decide to go for it.

 

[Ismene]

I first took mushrooms after a death in the family - they were the only thing that helped my mood.

 

[rpm]

No one knows what will happen if you decide to take the shrooms in your current mindset. It could be very therapeutic, or it could result in a very difficult experience with possible harmful outcome. Partly it depends on how experienced you are in handling bad/difficult trips, and in tripping on shrooms in general. A sitter would be advisable if you decide to go for it.

This is of course the correct answer. As he says, how experienced are you?

I first took mushrooms after a death in the family - they were the only thing that helped my mood.

Interestingly my girlfriend took acid for the first time after her aunt had died (they where very close). Said it did her a world of good.

 

[spacejunk]

Psychedelics can give you a fresh perspective on life.
I wouldn't say that really challenges any orthodoxies surrounding the idea of 'set and setting' to any considerable degree.
As others have said, you never really know where a trip will take you (mentally or emotionally) - particularly if you are not in a positive mindset.
Perhaps you could look at "set" more as the headspace you consciously take into a trip - ie "I feel stuck and I hope this will help inspire me out of this rut".
There's nothing particularly revisionist about that way of thinking, is there?

 

[al-laddin]

Thanks for all the replies. Im gonna just wait till I can at least laugh again.....the stress Ive been feeling is literally crippling. It is physically manifesting so I think I better wait for it to simmer down before hand.

I think that perhaps in the cases of the terminally ill when the psychedelics where administered their was a certain amount of accpetence rather then full on panic,, which is kind of where Im at....perhaps when one thing goes right for me I may be able to pull it together and go for it .....perhaps have an inspiring experience.

Im VERY careful when using psychedelics and Im very experienced with them so I do not take lightly what they are capable of putting one through.

On a side note, Ive been taking lions mane mushroom powder from a reputable source for about a week and its been making me re-experience my previous trips. ANd I havnt indulged in mushrooms in about a year. If I concentrate on what the trip feels like I can almost taste whats its like to be on a strong mushroom trip. Its not quite a "flashback" its just extrememly vivid memory recall. I believe this natural nootropic is very effective. I wonder how it synergises with psilocybin. Granted you cant just take them together and expect it to create a different experience. From what I understand the lions mane is a cumulative effect and takes several days to notice anything

 

[pupnik]

T....the stress Ive been feeling is literally crippling. ...

adding trails or reverberance to this meme is not a great idea, unless you are going for a total decomposition and rising from the ashes type of project.

some people have gone from "why me?!?!, woe is me!" to
"this is the wheel of life - we have to have compassion for all beings, especially as the majority cannot see this aspect of it"

and that is the kernel of mindset that makes a huge difference:
the centering, the detachment, the compassion, and perspective.

with that mindset, any setting can be addressed including one with perverse hardships such as the ones that may be bringing you down.

that said there are no guarantees in tripping nor for life in general.

 

[phatass]

I would go for another "safer" drug, given your current mindset, you're mindset in your case will make you prone to a bad episode or trip IMO, which could be difficult to integrate and might affect you for x amount of time after the trip, making things worse. It's not worth th risk IMO.

What about a good night out raving on MDMA with friends, get mashed and get your game on, maybe pull a honey would lift your mood no?

Or if you're set on doing a psych alone, somthing more stable and soft like 2C-C would be a better idea than shrooms...

Psychs can "reset" you into a good mindset (if that's what you ar going for, but you seemed to say it was more for a temporary 'escape"), but it's risky, more so with shrooms than many other psychs IMO...

You mentioned you were drinking to "escape" (a form of self medication probably), you must stop ASAP, it's extremely important that you get help from a doctor, the bottle is possibly the worst, it will destroy not only you as a person, but everyone who cares for you, friends, family etc. will be affected by alcoholism (not saying you've reached that stage, just it seems you're heading in that direction, from what you wrote....). PLEASE take this seriously!

 

[spacejunk]

I wouldn't recommend MDMA to depressed people, because the high is fleeting and the crash can drag on for the next week (and beyond).
I've had some great revelations from low-dose LSD (in a semi-social setting; I went out dancing and walked home to my apartment by myself) in a particularly intense period of sad darkness (depression doesnt seem like the right term to use, because i was well aware of the reasons I was so unhappy) a few years ago.
It helped me put the things that were making me so miserable into perspective. Lifted me up enough to get through the next week and keep pushing on. The funk gradually lifted.

Having said that I definitely wouldn't recommend it.
It worked for me but could easily be a trainwreck for others. I knew myself, and knew my response to that particular batch of acid (they were strong, and I took 1/4 tab doses).
Drugs generally aren't the answer to depression. One of the worst things you could turn to, in general terms.
But psychedelics can teach you a lot...it just really depends on the individual and the situation.
And the drug in question, also!
Anything that potentially induces a bad comedown is best avoided, should you decide to trip like this.

 

[al-laddin]

I would go for another "safer" drug, given your current mindset, you're mindset in your case will make you prone to a bad episode or trip IMO, which could be difficult to integrate and might affect you for x amount of time after the trip, making things worse. It's not worth th risk IMO.

What about a good night out raving on MDMA with friends, get mashed and get your game on, maybe pull a honey would lift your mood no?

Or if you're set on doing a psych alone, somthing more stable and soft like 2C-C would be a better idea than shrooms...

Psychs can "reset" you into a good mindset (if that's what you ar going for, but you seemed to say it was more for a temporary 'escape"), but it's risky, more so with shrooms than many other psychs IMO...

You mentioned you were drinking to "escape" (a form of self medication probably), you must stop ASAP, it's extremely important that you get help from a doctor, the bottle is possibly the worst, it will destroy not only you as a person, but everyone who cares for you, friends, family etc. will be affected by alcoholism (not saying you've reached that stage, just it seems you're heading in that direction, from what you wrote....). PLEASE take this seriously!

Hey Phatass....I really appreciate your resonse and it has definitely been useful especially thinking of the 2c-x alternative to psilocybes....but it seems you may have only skimmed through my post....I don't really drink anymore but I said that those are GREAT for numbing out and sometimes we all need a night of getting numbskulled.....but my situation is too severe for alcohol/drugs that do that because every day needs to be efficient in making money right now...or I can lose a lot...I can find 5 hours to trip though, because when I come out of an insoiring experience I can make up for those 5 hours anyhow...with alcohol or drugs I will just need more to feel better after the initial numbeness wears off....so its a no go for me right now.

Actually I was a 17 year daiy alcoholic up until ONE count it ONE LSD expererience last November...I came off of the trip and didn't want to drink...really weird...I was drinking through out the trip (beers) and each beer was tasting progressively worse...until I was gagging trying to get them down....same with tobacco...but I wasn't able to cut the nicotine out completely...it really made me thibk seriously about stopping that shit however.

And no I wasn't saying I want to trip for escape....quite the contrary however, I want to achieve an anti depressant effect through inspiration. Ive stumbled upon this effect with psychedelcis before , but unintentionally when I wasn't looking for that , but for a good time instead. Mushrooms IMO are the most harcore psych that I have tried....in regards to mental difficulty, but that difficulty seems to be its action on depression....perhaps much in the same way as pulling a bad tooth,....hurts when your getting it pulled but you feel much better later. Its just that my depression has led me to a possibly very fragile mindstate....which feels very similar to when I have lost someone I care for....I feel a grief from the weight of life and financial hardships lately...I have never felt this kind of crippling stress before so Im a little worried about my outcome....I actually almost at psilocybes the other day while physically manifesting a stressful reaction i.e. shaking, raised heart rate, probably high BP, sweating and panic....I thought MAYBE just MAYBE that the experience will help shine some light on what I need to do to get out of my situation.

I am feeling better now...today...but the problems are still there...so Im still looking for a way out..just feeling a little more motivated on doing the mundane shit I need to do to get out of my financial rut. But thanks for the advice on the 2c-c ....I have never been able to find it but Ive never tried looking.


Spacejunk, I once took 1/4 tab of good acid...just to see if it could enhance my day...it just made me feel funky and lost...I much prefer a normal 100ug dose of L....gets you "out there" enough to be in an altered yet clear state...LSD has fucked my vision up severely and the problem hasn't really corrected itself...its been many years and it the only psych Ive used which gradually worstened my vision everytime Ive used it. I see colored static and streaks off any moving object and have horrible night vision...so I cant do acid anymore ....maybe in half a decade if my vision clears up...who knows....unfortunately its my absolute favorite psychedelic and I wish there was a tryptamine that was more similar to acid than to shrooms....some people have actually told me 4-ho-mipt was VERY much like acid in its clearheadedness and that what I like about Lucy.....not nearly as much confusion , starnge lethargy, weird crawling sensations I get from tryptamines.

 

[phuckingnutz]

I first took mushrooms after a death in the family - they were the only thing that helped my mood.

I too have done psychedelics at stressful times and in bad situations to get a different perspective on the problem as well as to practice integrating and handling that type of trip...you never know when, right in the middle of your perfect set and setting trip...IT ALL GOES WRONG AND YOUR DOG DIES....whatcha you gonna do? freak the fuck out? or call on previous "poor set/ting" trips to help pull you through?
It never hurts to be prepared

 

[Xorkoth]

Im in a horribly depressed shit fucking mood....have been for several days. Im having financial troubles and I want nothing more than to feel inspired as I havnt felt this "stuck" and depressed in ....well, I cant remember the last time Ive felt this down. Its like the stress is crippling to the point where I don't feel like I can get out of my situation. Like when I try and focus I feel pain and panic. Its quite similar to the desperation one feels when one loses a loved one.

So I have access to some mushrooms. I don't want to use them as an escape. Alcohol and other numbing drugs do just fine for that but they get me no where fast. I would like to use psilocybin as a source of inspiration and as an antidepressant. My current state of depression is not "chemical". Its more from a series of events much in the "when it rains, its pours" type of way. I guess everything is chemical but this is a result of events.

So after these new scientific studies resulting in positive results in regards to mental health, Im wondering if the mind set is all that important to do some mental cleansing work. I mean we have all heard the infamous mantra "set and setting" but the studies Ive read about were done on terminally ill patients in which Im assuming mind set is far from "appropriate". So I ask you people of bluelight is this recommended? Have any of you had success treating your own issues this way or am I better off not messing with this stuff in such a state of mind?

I know how you feel (about the financial stress anyway). I had worked myself into as much credit card debt as I make in a year, and I had to use more credit or else I couldn't eat. It slowly built for 5 years, due to opiate addiction and my ex-wife not working the whole time. It drained my life SO badly, the stress and anxiety and pain were terrible. So out of control feeling, it scared me so bad. I ended up declaring chapter 7 bankruptcy and it was definitely the right decision for me. But I really was in a terrible place and I had no other option at that point, which is what it should be used for. If you can get out yourself, it's best to do that. Try to sit down and plan, even use a financial advisor. I have a hard time sticking to budgets, to be honest, but if you can, then you can take away a whole lot of the fear because you'll know on paper that if you stick to the plan you'll be fine.

On your actual question, I have taken psychedelics to kick myself out of depression several times, successfully. It worked for me because psychedelics agree with my mind and brain chemistry. I can imagine a scenario in which anxiety was triggered and it could turn bad. Most likely, if you do it with mindfulness and in a great setting (I recommend a safe place in nature, maybe a cabin or something), you will find something, given that you have previous successful experience with psychedelics (you do, right?). But there are no guarantees. It's definitely playing with fire a bit.

 

[RhythmSpring]

You definitely raise a good point; it's something I deal with too. I easily get stuck in my brain and depressed and anxious and feel like I need something to snap me out of it. It's a bit of a catch-22--you want to feel better before you trip, but a trip might make you feel better?

In my opinion and personal experience, if you go into the trip with respect and openness, and sort of an admitting feeling that you *don't* know the answers, and so you are asking the shroom-consciousness, you will probably benefit and break through at least some of the mental gook. After all, mushrooms are a medicine. In shamanic cultures, they are used to treat people who need help, not give already happy people happier experiences. Imo, you are doing it right if you are using them for medicinal purposes, instead of a recreational kind of, "Hey, I'm already happy, let's get happier!" mindset.

I know it's not very Bluelight to recommend drugs or respond to "(what) should I take?" threads, but here you raise a really good point which has been bugging my mind as well. The Catch-22 of wait til you're in a good mindset to take something that puts you in the good mindset you desire.

Mushrooms are nothing but healing to me. I've never experienced any bad vibes from them. From MYSELF, yah, but if you have the self-awareness to distinguish between your mind's own trappings and the energy of the mushrooms, you will go far. Just my too sense.

 

[al-laddin]

Yeah I hear ya guys loud and clear. Yeah I use psychs a few times a year generally to help enhance my life spiritually. I dont know if that can be considered medicinal or recreational (maybe both?) But its about that time for me but I am feeling a lot of fear going in... Like i said LSD mindset is pretty easy for me to cope with. I find it much more gentle on the mind than mushrooms and others I know seem to agree but its the only psych Im confident wont leave me with long lasting side effects. But I am more succeptable to a negative experience, which is fine. Ive accepted that mushrooms make me take a beating I just dont know if I can handle a beating dished out by them right now

 

[phatass]

right in the middle of your perfect set and setting trip...IT ALL GOES WRONG AND YOUR DOG DIES....whatcha you gonna do? freak the fuck out? or call on previous "poor set/ting" trips to help pull you through?
It never hurts to be prepared

WORD... this happened to me, but i didn't freak out, it was extremly sad and emotional, but he went peacefully of old age, just slowr and slower breathing until he stopped, with myself and my dad next to him, petting him a last time, the most loyal friend i lost

Al-ladin, sorry i misinterpreted part of your post, so you're going for a psych experience to "reset" or "reboot" yourself into a better state of mind (this actually worked for my GF when we took high dose 25i-nbome for the first time together (her second psych experience), i helped her through the trip, showed love, compassion etc. it unblocked something in her head, got rid of all her pent up anger, got rid of all her irrational worries and gave her a new perspective and very positive outlook on life)...

So it can be done with an experienced co-tripper who is very close to you (S/O, best friend, family member), who can act as a sort of therapist and accompany and help you, as you work on your issues... again if you do this 2Cx's would be the way to go IMO, never had a bad trip on 2Cx even when i wasn't in a good state of mind...

IMO/IME This would work best on a high dose, but definately dont do it alone...

hope this helps a bit

 

[al-laddin]

Thanks phatass. I will look into 2cx's , unfortunately Im not much into the rave scene though and they are hard to come by if you don't know too many people like that but Ill see what I can do. I definitely am to sketched to darknet it. Also isn't 2cE kinda brutal?

By the way this by no means was meant to be a "what should I take" thread. It was simply to know if anyones had good results using psychs in a fucked up state of mind.

 

[perpetualdawn]

In my opinion 2c-e is anything but brutal. Probably easy to take too much if you're not careful, but in the range of 8-18mg it was full of love and kindness. No idea if it would be life altering, or therapeutic, something tells me there are other substances more suited. To me 2c-e is like a gentle, heavy-duty, psychedelic that takes you on a big long lwalk to psychedelia land and brings you back again without any majorly challenging moments. YMMV.

The tryptamines like psilocybin, DPT, 4-aco-dmt might be more suited to bring about the catharsis I think you seek. They all have that anxious, stressful buildup to the super trippy peak where you reevaluate your life, and then on the comedown there is all that euphoria and healing after coming down from the mountain in one piece. They are a tougher go, but give some challenges to work with if that makes sense.

 

[al-laddin]

I fear the peak of psilocybin the most....An orchestra of broken instuments playing... while my body stuggles with the crawling, squirming madness. phenethylamiines don't have this effect...nor do lysergics.....but your right this extreme discomfort often results in the cathartic experience Im looking for.

Man I don't get it...everyone complains about the come up on shrooms....I swear it has NOTHING on the peak....unless Im somehow confusing the peak as the come up....I have one other friend that feels the same way as I do on the peak.....I swear it feels like Im going to squirm out of my skin on the peak of psilocybin.

The one time I made tea it seemed to lessen this effect...Im wondering if it was a fluke or of faster absorbtion can change the experience that much....mushroom tea had less confusion and more clarity as well.

 

[Xorkoth]

I find peaks of psychedelics to be very anxious and difficult usually only when I succumb to come-up anxiety. Come-ups are generally the most difficult part of psychedelic experiences for me. If I stay on top of it and don't succumb to anxiety loops, I usually don't get bodyload or anxiety during the peak or afterwards. Although some psychedelics just by nature cause bodyload, I find that a large portion of it when I experience it is psychosomatic. For example I NEVER get bodyload anymore on the psychedelics I am most comfortable with, such as DOC. In fact I rarely get significant bodyload on anything because I have learned to navigate come-ups.

I think 2C-E to be a difficult psychedelic usually, and quite neutral in character (I have had a few loving trips on it too but generally it makes me feel very analytical and non-emotional). It also has a very difficult come-up for me so a larger percentage of my trips on it than most have ended up being pretty jarring. I LOVE 2C-E though, one of the most powerful psychedelics in existence IMO, so immensely powerful and fractal.