Do THC pills work

[twisteddistorted]

I was reading about THC pills and was wondering if anyone has actually tried them. Do they work and how good are they and stuff like that? Thanks

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Yes they 'work' but almost everyone that tries them invariably prefers the real thing. Not only that but they are crap for therapeutic purposes and incredibly expensive. It's not worth bothering with them IMO.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

THC by itself will not get you stoned/high.

 

[THC2LSD]

Marinol will get you high and is quite pleasant. Other cannabinoids color the high, but THC even by itself is not bad. Really my only beef with it is synthetic THC is so fucking expensive I'd be cheaper to pay blackmarket prices for weed. Probably why it's not more common on the streets.

I think legalization supporters diss Marinol because they see it as an obstacle to legalization, since Regan used Marinol as an excuse not to have medical marijuana. Yet when generic pharmaceutical companies wanted to change natural THC not in sesame oil to schedule III, almost nothing was said about it in the legalization community. Nothing. Growing live plants for medicine would be a step in the right direction, even if it's the evil corporations. You'd think the pro-weed lobby would stand behind it for a common cause.

I feel Marinol will have a place in the pharmacopeia even when cannabis is legalized.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

With respect, I take issue with some of the things you've said.

Marinol will get you high and is quite pleasant. Other cannabinoids color the high, but THC even by itself is not bad.

I can't argue with that because it's something completely subjective, but really my observation is that more often than not experienced cannabis users prefer real cannabis because the other cannabinoids, whether it be CBN, CBD or other cannabinoids from the spectrum found in herbal cannabis balance out the effects of THC and lower the liklihood of experiencing panic, anxiety and other unpleasant effects. Some people really don't mind the high and I am not arguing with that but I can't say I would recommend it. Certainly not over real cannabis (which is cheaper anyway and more readily available anyway).

Really my only beef with it is synthetic THC is so fucking expensive I'd be cheaper to pay blackmarket prices for weed. Probably why it's not more common on the streets.

Again, my observation is that most people prefer cannabis for both recreational and medicinal use even without taking the cost issue into consideration.

I think legalization supporters diss Marinol because they see it as an obstacle to legalization, since Regan used Marinol as an excuse not to have medical marijuana. Yet when generic pharmaceutical companies wanted to change natural THC not in sesame oil to schedule III, almost nothing was said about it in the legalization community. Nothing. Growing live plants for medicine would be a step in the right direction, even if it's the evil corporations. You'd think the pro-weed lobby would stand behind it for a common cause.

I can't speak for other people but that's most certainly not the case with the vast majority of people I have spoken to. The federal government was under a lot of pressure to look at the medical uses of marijuana back in the 80s. So the government supported the company Unimed to create Marinol, synthetic THC, as a justification for keeping cannabis illegal. That was their intention, but the thing is, as I have said, as can be confirmed amongst consultant oncologists with experience of both, it is much less efficacious than cannabis. So it is a red herring but in my opinion it is not an obstacle to legalisation. Right wing social conservatives are. Now if it was effective as they intended it to be, then I would agree with you but that doesn't seem to be the case. What riles people up is that the government has the audacity to claim that it is a suitable replacement or alternative for patients in the first place when it is garbage.

People suffering from things like spasticity need to be able to titrate their dose, preferably without getting high. It’s much easier to titrate when you’re using the pulmonary system than when you’re using the oral system. After taking a puff you can feel it in seconds where as orally it takes about 1h 30min. So the greatest advantage with smoking or vaporizing is that the patient can have control. With Marinol you simply do not have that control.

Now here is a place for cannabiniods taken orally but Marinol really isn't as effective in general as the herbal cannabis for the above mentioned reasons. Even with prohibition prices cannabis is still cheaper than Marinol, so the price difference will be even bigger when cannabis comes down in price in the future when laws are relaxed.

I feel Marinol will have a place in the pharmacopeia even when cannabis is legalized.

Why would it? Herbal cannabis can be standardised just like St. John's Wort and they have even managed to produce cannabis-based pills. Given that these most probably would be a fraction of the price, Marinol will most likely become obsolete.

Yet when generic pharmaceutical companies wanted to change natural THC not in sesame oil to schedule III, almost nothing was said about it in the legalization community. Nothing.

On October 9, 2002, the Coalition for Rescheduling Cannabis filed another petition to have herbal cannabis rescheduled to CIII so efforts have been made. You might not have heard much in internet forums and the like but there was a fair amount of controversy. Perhaps not as much as there should have been but there definitely was some.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

THC by itself will not get you stoned/high.

I dare you to prove it by taking a fistful of Marinol pills Trust me, it most certainly will get you high

 

[Bomboclat]

OP do you mean Marinol or do you mean THC extract capsules?

The caps work amazingly, and they give you the greatest tasting burps. They last ~6 hours or so and are great for getting high in public.

As for marinol, ive only had it once, but it works. Its more subtle, not like an intense high, but it gets you nicely sedated and fuzzy as well as extremely hungry. Like munchies galore.

 

[THC2LSD]

Again, my observation is that most people prefer cannabis for both recreational and medicinal use even without taking the cost issue into consideration.

I prefer cannabis too, but wouldn't mind buying me some Marinol beside the Tylenol. I've heard many who did like it, I did too.

That was their intention, but the thing is, as I have said, as can be confirmed amongst consultant oncologists with experience of both, it is much less efficacious than cannabis.

I don't dispute that the synergic combination produced by billions of years of evolution and thousand of years of cultivation is superior to THC alone. I just don't think it's totally useless.

So it is a red herring but in my opinion it is not an obstacle to legalisation. Right wing social conservatives are.

True that.

What riles people up is that the government has the audacity to claim that it is a suitable replacement or alternative for patients in the first place when it is garbage.

It's only approved for nausea and vomiting from chemotherapy and as an appetite stimulant for HIV wasting. As opposed to the many things cannabis treats. If the government says it works for other stuff it's contradicting it's own FDA. It's inferior, but does work for some. I wouldn't go so far as to call it garbage. Take lithium or haldol and tell me it's garbage.

It’s much easier to titrate when you’re using the pulmonary system than when you’re using the oral system. After taking a puff you can feel it in seconds where as orally it takes about 1h 30min.

It is easier to titrated the dose smoked, but some respond well to PO or can't even use a vaporizers due to lung problems. I do wish the smoking/vaporizing ROA was used more in medicine.

Why would it? Herbal cannabis can be standardised just like St. John's Wort and they have even managed to produce cannabis-based pills. Given that these most probably would be a fraction of the price, Marinol will most likely become obsolete.

Has opium or willow bark made morphine or aspirin obsolete? I feel opium is superior to morphine and some doctors agree. It's the opposite situation, opium tinctures are fucking expensive and morphine's cheap, due to drug laws. But some might like pure morphine over opium. Same with THC and cannabis.

I do think that the FDA should approve and regulate herbal medicines like Germany does. It'd at least not require as much chemicals(well still some) and would probably be better for the environment.

On October 9, 2002, the Coalition for Rescheduling Cannabis filed another petition to have herbal cannabis rescheduled to CIII so efforts have been made. You might not have heard much in internet forums and the like but there was a fair amount of controversy. Perhaps not as much as there should have been but there definitely was some.

Not just forums, but things like Cannabis Culture and High Times, let alone the mainstream media, didn't seem to give it as much attention as it deserved. I didn't know it was one of the good guys who put it through. I just read the registration notice mentioning firms that wanted to make generics of Marinol and thought it was pharma. Thanks for telling me about the Coalition For Rescheduling Cannabis. Makes me feel better that it wasn't big pharma.

I agree with 95% of what you've said, but I just disagree that pure THC is totally useless all the time, for all conditions, for all people, even for getting high. Many would like the complex mixture that cannabis contains much like many prefer a good beer or wine to everclear. It's hard for humans to duplicate the perfect synergy found in nature. But I feel that when it's legal there should be a choice, perhaps several different ratios of various cannabinoids, pure THC, and various cannabis preperations, depending on the patient's or consumer's wants and needs.

 

[1394]

RE Marinol:

I've never eaten it, but from what I remember the whole idea of marketing it was because it wasn't enjoyable.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I don't dispute that the synergic combination produced by billions of years of evolution and thousand of years of cultivation is superior to THC alone. I just don't think it's totally useless.

Good, we agree on that. I just think that given the fact that cannabis is more effective and cheaper, nobody in their right mind would choose Marinol over cannabis. In a double blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial you can definitely show that Marinol has a statistically significant effect above and beyond the placebo effect; I'm not doubting this. But, given the choice between the two, Marinol has no advantage over cannabis, aside from it's legality. This however is artibitrary and in practice for patients in medical use states legal problems don't usually present much of an issue when purchased from dispensaries in small amounts.

It's only approved for nausea and vomiting from chemotherapy and as an appetite stimulant for HIV wasting. As opposed to the many things cannabis treats. If the government says it works for other stuff it's contradicting it's own FDA.

If you type Marinol into Google the first result is from the DEA website. In the page that comes up the very first point that is made from the horse's mouth, before anything else is this:

Medical marijuana already exists. It's called Marinol.

It's inferior, but does work for some. I wouldn't go so far as to call it garbage.

I don't disagree with that. When I call it garbage I do so because I think it's inferior but you're right, some will find it works. I would guess that most of these people would find real cannabis to be more effective and would prefer it if they had the opportunity to use it.

Take lithium or haldol and tell me it's garbage.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Both lithium and haloperidol (Haldol) are both extremely important drugs that are still used extensively where atypticals (or other typical APs) would not be as effective. Were it not for these drugs a lot of people would be confined to mental hospitals for life.

It is easier to titrated the dose smoked, but some respond well to PO or can't even use a vaporizers due to lung problems. I do wish the smoking/vaporizing ROA was used more in medicine.

Some do do well with the oral system but these people will be a minority. It is not just a choice between smoked or vaporized cannabis and Marinol but oral herbal cannabis as well. If these people happen to get on well with taking Marinol orally then it's likely that they would get on even better with oral cannabis, both financially and medically.

Has opium or willow bark made morphine or aspirin obsolete? I feel opium is superior to morphine and some doctors agree. It's the opposite situation, opium tinctures are fucking expensive and morphine's cheap, due to drug laws. But some might like pure morphine over opium. Same with THC and cannabis.

That's like comparing apples with pears IMO. Cannabis is completely different. Since we're mainly talking about clinical medicine and not recreational use, morphine is regarded as the gold standard of opioid analgesics. Morphine has made opium obsolete in medicine mainly because it lends itself so well to IV use whereas opium cannot be used in this way. The reason you can isolate the alkaloid from opium and get such an effective drug is because its main effect is binding to and activating the μ-opioid receptors in the CNS and morphine by itself does this very well. Cannabis on the other hand is used in a completely different way and is a completely different drug. It isn't used intravenously, it's mainly smoked, vaporized or taken orally for one thing. Not only that but you can't just isolate the principal cannabinoid, delta-9-THC, and be left with a drug as effective as whole cannabis because the other cannabiniods play more of a role than you are giving them credit for - they are much more crucial than the lesser alkaloids in opium such as codeine and non-narcotic papaverine, thebaine and noscapine. Unlike opiates which work mainly by binding to and activating the μ-opioid receptors and which are used mainly just for pain relief, cannabis treats more conditions than any other drug we know of. Why is this? It's because the plethora of cannabinoids have multiple actions, each one being unique in the way it works. To give you an idea take a look at this cannabinoid mapping to give you a flavor of what some of them that we know of do:

NSFW:

So you can see why you can't just take out the THC and expect to have a drug that is more or less as good as cannabis. The reason it is obsolete is because these same patients that Marinol would work for would get more benefit from actually taking cannabis itself. I mean, aside from the legality issue I'm struggling to see that there is any advantage of Marinol over cannabis at all. Again with the willow bark/aspirin it's a different drug completely.

Not just forums, but things like Cannabis Culture and High Times, let alone the mainstream media, didn't seem to give it as much attention as it deserved. I didn't know it was one of the good guys who put it through. I just read the registration notice mentioning firms that wanted to make generics of Marinol and thought it was pharma. Thanks for telling me about the Coalition For Rescheduling Cannabis. Makes me feel better that it wasn't big pharma.

If I'm honest I'm not particularly a fan of CC and High Times. I tend to pay more attention to organizations like NORML, Global Commission on Drug Policy and other organizations and not take them seriously, especially High Times. Not that I'm trying to denigrate your choice of news outlet, but I'm just saying they probably aren't the best of places to look for info about drug policy.

I agree with 95% of what you've said, but I just disagree that pure THC is totally useless all the time, for all conditions, for all people, even for getting high. Many would like the complex mixture that cannabis contains much like many prefer a good beer or wine to everclear. It's hard for humans to duplicate the perfect synergy found in nature. But I feel that when it's legal there should be a choice, perhaps several different ratios of various cannabinoids, pure THC, and various cannabis preperations, depending on the patient's or consumer's wants and needs.

I don't disagree with that. There will certainly be people that find it works, but I think the main reason it was developed was for political, not scientific or medicinal reasons and there are better alternatives, whether it be actual real cannabis or other pharmaceutical drugs. I just don't see that it has much use when you take all things into consideration, but I agree, if people want to use it and believe themselves that it works then I don't think anyone should get in their way.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Anyway we agree on about 95% of it, like you say, so I guess we can agree to disagree on the remaining 5%.

 

[THC2LSD]

I don't understand what you mean by this. Both lithium and haloperidol (Haldol) are both extremely important drugs that are still used extensively where atypticals (or other typical APs) would not be as effective. Were it not for these drugs a lot of people would be confined to mental hospitals for life.

It's better than complete madness to the point you want to kill yourself, but both have a shitload of side effects IME. But there's good news. Your chart and some studies I've read say that cannabidiol might treat psychosis. Is there anything this gift from Lord Shiva can't do?

Morphine has made opium obsolete in medicine mainly because it lends itself so well to IV use whereas opium cannot be used in this way.

There was Pantopan with all the alkaloids for IV.

The reason you can isolate the alkaloid from opium and get such an effective drug is because its main effect is binding to and activating the μ-opioid receptors in the CNS and morphine by itself does this very well. Cannabis on the other hand is used in a completely different way and is a completely different drug. It isn't used intravenously, it's mainly smoked, vaporized or taken orally for one thing. Not only that but you can't just isolate the principal cannabinoid, delta-9-THC, and be left with a drug as effective as whole cannabis because the other cannabiniods play more of a role than you are giving them credit for - they are much more crucial than the lesser alkaloids in opium such as codeine and non-narcotic papaverine, thebaine and noscapine.

I disagree. I feel the secondary alkaloids are beneficial and enhance the effects of morphine and counteract some of the side effects, not unlike the secondary cannabinoids help THC. Too bad Pantopan isn't available anymore. Neither is original laudanum. Deoderized tincture are sometimes prescribed, but rare and very expensive relative to other opiates. Different strains of poppies have different effects too. I think smoked opium for pain should be researched.

If I'm honest I'm not particularly a fan of CC and High Times. I tend to pay more attention to organizations like NORML, Global Commission on Drug Policy and other organizations and not take them seriously, especially High Times. Not that I'm trying to denigrate your choice of news outlet, but I'm just saying they probably aren't the best of places to look for info about drug policy.

I don't particularly like them. Think the organization you mentioned are better. Sometime I just look through them at the book store. I think they're too commercial, and it's bullshit how they advertize cuts, "Real Legal Budz" and other overpriced bullshit. Some of the older, like 70's-80's, High Times are interesting. Kind of like looking through a time capsule. Before the internet, High Times and some underground publications were some's only source of drug information. Kind of obsolete now with the internet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really remember(LOL) NORML really saying much about the petition, at least in the early to mid 2000's.

 

[Ms.Martini]

i don't know what kind of thc pill i took, but once you popped it, it was suppose to get you stoned in like 5-8 hours or something, and i definitely got high with one pill, it was pretty awesome.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

It's better than complete madness to the point you want to kill yourself, but both have a shitload of side effects IME.

The difference between those drugs I'm trying to highlight is that despite the side effects the typicals are still essential in medicine (psychiatry) but Marinol on the other hand doesn't share this in common. It could indeed quite easily disappear off the face of the earth causing almost no hardship in comparison (legal issues aside) whilst the other disappearing could destroy peoples' lives.

There was Pantopan with all the alkaloids for IV. I disagree. I feel the secondary alkaloids are beneficial and enhance the effects of morphine and counteract some of the side effects, not unlike the secondary cannabinoids help THC. Too bad Pantopan isn't available anymore.

Although I'm no expert the way I understand it the main reason it was used is in the rare circumstance that morphine would not be tolerated by patients. The advantage of the other alkaloids evidently wasn't good enough to stop it from falling into disuse, especially when various opioids could be used instead which would be much better choices. And it certainly wasn't done so because of the legal constraints that cause doctors to prescribe Marinol over giving a recommendation for medical cannabis where necessary. But, more importantly, I don't want to get side tracked into a discussion about opium because whether or not you're right the point I'm making is that the morphine/opium example is not analogous to the THC/cannabis example because, for one thing, they are completely different drugs that work at completely different receptor sites in the body! There might be some vague similarities but they are not the same.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really remember(LOL) NORML really saying much about the petition, at least in the early to mid 2000's.

There's plenty of references to the petition and others on the site, so whilst I wasn't around to say, I don't see why not, especially when they themselves have made a petition in the past. Their whole raison d'etre is to reform cannabis laws after all so it's not an unreasonable assumption. But to be honest they were just one example of many organizations or reform groups. I agree with what you say about legal budz and that crap. I can't believe people fall for it, mind you their main customers are probably high school students and idiots.

 

[The Network]

THC by itself will not get you stoned/high.

This. And if it did it would be a train wreck trip. You need CBD to balance it out.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

^ I think he meant that it won't have any effect i.e. you won't feel anything.

Most strains actually contain virtually no CBD these days unfortunately because of breeders who have been selecting for potency.

 

[The Network]

^ I think he meant that it won't have any effect i.e. you won't feel anything.

How did you read it that suggested I thought otherwise?

 

[Artificial Emotion]

Sorry I misread what you wrote. I saw the 'this' and it threw me off. Apologies, I was tired.

 

[The Network]

Sorry I misread what you wrote. I saw the 'this' and it threw me off. Apologies, I was tired.

We can all blame it on dex.

 

[THC2LSD]

The difference between those drugs I'm trying to highlight is that despite the side effects the typicals are still essential in medicine (psychiatry) but Marinol on the other hand doesn't share this in common. It could indeed quite easily disappear off the face of the earth causing almost no hardship in comparison (legal issues aside) whilst the other disappearing could destroy peoples' lives.

But if pure cannabidiol was legal some could take it instead and not have to deal with some fucked up side effect like parkinson's, tardive dyskinesia, anhedonia, dyphoria or even kidney failure.

Although I'm no expert the way I understand it the main reason it was used is in the rare circumstance that morphine would not be tolerated by patients. The advantage of the other alkaloids evidently wasn't good enough to stop it from falling into disuse, especially when various opioids could be used instead which would be much better choices. And it certainly wasn't done so because of the legal constraints that cause doctors to prescribe Marinol over giving a recommendation for medical cannabis where necessary.

It's still used in Britain under the name Omnopan(papaveretum). It was used in WWII in the syriettes. However it lacks many of the other secondary alkaloids non-alkaloids and meconic acid(it was the HCl salt), and in 1993 they took out the narcotine because I was though that it might be genotoxic. Later it was found that narcotine might treat cancer. Thebaine wasn't in Omnopan or Pantopan because it's a very valuable precursor to other drugs.

The other alkaloids definitely have a positive medical effect. Narcotine also has a cough suppressant effect and some stimulant effects. Thebaine is also a stimulant and counteracts the sedation and respirator depression of morphine and codeine, especially in combination with narcotine. Thebaine, possibly in combination with low doses of codeine(not high) might counteract constipation. Papaverine relaxes the muscles and increases blood flow. It's used to tread erectile dysfunction. There's also dozens of other alkaloids and non-alkaloids that are less studied.

The disappearance of opium from medicine in the US has everything to do with drug laws and treaties. The US and INCB long had a policy that it would get 70% of it's opium from India and 30% from Turkey, and most of that should go to making codeine. Nixon made Turkey stop poppy production altogether due to diversion to heroin production, though at the same time they were helping anti-communists in south east Asia smuggle opium and heroin8(. Later because this caused an international shortage of opiates Turkey started making concentrate of poppy straw, having peasants harvest the pods and seeds by hand so they'd still have work.

India is the only country that still legally makes real opium. Unfortunately almost all of it goes to codeine, some morphine and thebaine(very valuable), because that's what pharma and the US wants. It's been proposed that other countries like Afghanistan, Burma and Mexico should be allowed to make opium for legitimate medicine instead of heroin, but the US opposes this.

Morphine, heroin, different types of opium, different ROA of opium, pods, and pod extracts are all different from each other. I feel it is analogous to cannabis in that the pure concentrated compounds are legal and used more than the superior natural precursor but backwards drug laws prevent wider use of both. And opium can't be injected without some chemistry like cannabinoids. I think they should use smoked opium for pain because it has similar advantages like smoking cannabis as an ROA(I'm not saying they're the same).

Sorry for going off topic. Back on topic

I feel that pure versions of cannabinoids could still have some use. Cannabindiol has anti-anxiety and anti-psychotic effects. THCV, not to be confused with THC roman numeral 5, has an appetite suppressing effect. Both of them might have uses alone.

Also say a patient needs a very specific mixture of cannabinoids. Unless there's a bunch of mixtures on the market that come close to what they need, they may need to take each in pure form to get exactly what they need. With many other medicines that have several active compounds some have termed them irrational mixtures or "shotgun" medicine. Often other actives aren't usually need, it's hard to individualize the doses, and are often more expensive than any one drug alone. Usually with most of them it's cheaper and better just to buy each drug individually. So some many need Marinol in certain circumstances.