At this point I have smoked hundreds of different medical strains of weed. I have come to two conclusions that my 'medical weed doctors' disagree with.
1: None of these terpene profiles mean fucking anything. Indica sativa dont mean fucking anything. Its all bullshit. and
2: None of the medical weed comes close to the shit my friends have grown. Which doesn't make any sense because I saw their setups/grows - they didn't know what they were doing half the time, plants would be left unwatered and overheated for a week strait and all look dead. And I was there when it was trimmed and what not. The 'heads'(real heads, as in the tops of the main plant branches) of those plants absolutely obliterate the 25/28% medical stuff I get.
How is it possible that random seeds my friends got out of bags, grown in dirt under fluro, left with no water for a week or more at a time, completely limp and dead looking plants at multiple stages - those nugs were some of the best weed I ever smoked.
And the terpene shit. I have been put to sleep by 'sativa', kept awake by 'indica'.. maybe terpene profiles do mean something but however they are being interpreted by the medical community seems completely wrong.
Not at all, the terms are as much a nonsense as the term: "medical strains of weed" they don't really define anything in particular it’s just circle jerk marketing.
Only an Analytical Chemist is qualified to quantify a substance, stoner at the bud shop not so much.
Not at all, the terms are as much a nonsense as the term: "medical strains of weed" they don't really define anything in particular it’s just circle jerk marketing.
Only an Analytical Chemist is qualified to quantify a substance, stoner at the bud shop not so much.
Medical strains = regulated, consistent, tested weed that is grown in a completely controlled and professional way.
Obviously it's not magically medical because of this. More pointing out it's strange that supposed high end Canadian import medical shit doesn't stand to what some idiot who knows nothing can grow in a closet. Doesn't add up.
starting with the first point. in the scientific community there is absolute unanimity regarding the indica/sativa topic - there is no difference in the user experience not induced by the placebo effect.
there is, however, some more ambiguity surrounding the topic of “entourage effect” - a concept of terpenes and minor psychoactive cannabinoids effecting the user experience and medical outcomes. comprehensive reviews of the topic suggest a lack of consistent difference between isolated thc and different full spectrum preparations, yet hint at some unclear possible changes in medical value. the lack of difference in the user experience can be clearly explained by the fact that neither terpenes nor minor psychoactive cannabinoids(at the dosage naturally present in cannabis) have any psychoactive effect and therefore do not interfere with the psychoactive effects of THC
And thus the only thing effecting the high that you get from smoking cannabis is thc and its concentration.
It would be fair to assume that cannabis that your friends grow is just stronger in terms of thc concentration than the medical stuff that you get, it’s also important not to forget the placebo effect - you may have(even unconsciously) some prejudice regarding the potency of medical cannabis or potency of the cannabis your friends grow and that would effect your experience
I have seen preliminary data at a conference that terpenes administered IP (intraperitoneal; tends to mimic oral administration because the compounds undergo first-pass metabolism via the portal vein) to mice modulate the analgesia of THC (and not all terpenes have the same effect).
This leads me to believe two things 1). The effects of terpenes likely are somewhat real. 2). They likely exert their effects by some other means than activatingolfactory receptors.
Unfortunately I can’t find any publication of this work, so it either will be out soon or it has died on the vine.
You havent had the right strains. For example African landrace sativas contain THCV and re thus stimulating. Ive had Red Congo, durban poison and Malawi and they where all pretty stimulating. Great for a wake and bake
On the other side you have landrace indicas or near landrace indicas. Hindu kush s a landrace indica that is great for anxiety. Northern lights is pretty close to being a landrace indica and is great for anxiety and sleep. Dutch treat is a great indica as well
Terpenes def matter. Strains like golden pineapple have great terpenes and is one of my fav strains. Only about 17% THC but THC is far from being everything imo. Ive had 32% THC weed that was nowhere near as good as something klike golden pineapple and nowhere naar as good as any landrace.
Terpenes are great. Most cannabis doesnt have any terpenes in it - drying usually destroys them all. I've been using cannabis for 20 years and never had any with terpenes in it. I'd never felt the power of terpenes until I bought a bottle of terpenes and slugged a dose.
You want to know what a sativa feels like? Ten times more sativa feeling than ANY cannabis you've ever had? Buy a bottle of stardawg terpenes and a D9 syringe. Take a capsule of D9 and then take half an OO capsule of terpenes.
not all brands in my state list the terps, but when i was buying brands that listed the terps (some only the three main terps), i couldn't tell what was going on. seemed like a lot of them had some of the same terps in high amounts and the weed would all be very different and wouldn't determine quality.
some brands claim to have a lot of terps and high thc and it won't really get me stoned, and then another brand which i would have good luck with will have low thc and not a ton of terps and it will do the job to get me stoned... i pretty much stick to the same brands instead of finding out what terps i like. didn't have good luck picking by terps. some brands just suck.
i had some pretty good outdoor weed that i grew @ the op's other observation, but the indoor i grew was only like 2-5% thc probably. it looked pretty good, some of it even crystally, but wasn't good unless you were looking for weak weed. the seeded mids i used to get used to be a lot stronger than what i grew indoors.. outdoor was kinda fire though, solid 15-20% or more thc.
None of the medical weed comes close to the shit my friends have grown. Which doesn't make any sense because I saw their setups/grows - they didn't know what they were doing half the time, plants would be left unwatered and overheated for a week strait and all look dead. And I was there when it was trimmed and what not. The 'heads'(real heads, as in the tops of the main plant branches) of those plants absolutely obliterate the 25/28% medical stuff I get.
I partly outlined this in my thread on why UK medical isn't recommended. Medical is usually irradiated which degrades terpenes and cannabinoids. That degradation produces unknown by-products with unknown toxicity. The by-products get inhaled. Medical also usually uses pesticides, herbicides and fungicides which have maximum residue limits in the final product, those residues are ready for inhalation...
Most medical flower processing removes trichomes to sell separately. Also THC testing companies are infamous for offering inflated THC numbers. Something that's 15% can be listed as 25% (permitted 10% margin of error) and there's silly strains apparently testing at 35%+.
And the terpene shit. I have been put to sleep by 'sativa', kept awake by 'indica'.. maybe terpene profiles do mean something but however they are being interpreted by the medical community seems completely wrong.
There's a lot of oversimplification going on.
Myrcene is the famous couch lock terpene (which blocks adrenaline which is how it prevents movement). But many pure Sativa varieties which have caffeine/LSD-type effects contain myrcene. These are genuine pure Sativas with zero influence from sedating varieties (so-called Indica).
Maybe this analogy works... original cannabis strains are like single colours, modern strains are mixes of those original colours. Most modern strains are all related so there's low diversity, they all look like "different shades of brown". There's an entire community of people growing strains that aren't a "muddy brown" thanks to companies like ACE seeds who still have those original old school strains (landrace, heirloom). If you want to see what actual pure Sativa looks like check their site.
One of the key reasons why older strains were "better" is their richer cannabinoid & terpene profiles and moderate THC content (~10-20%). Higher THC levels cause mental fog and other issues that interfere with & undermine the overall experience. Unfortunately most people below the age of 40 have never experienced older strains so their idea of good potent weed is based on modern hybrid strains which suck in comparison.
Pure sativa, only 18.5% THC
This complex super-sativa is the zenith in our refinement of sativa hybrids. Its legendary lineage perfectly sums up our 20 years of fine breeding work with some of the best tropical sativas on the planet: Malawi and Zamal from the African continent, Panama from Central America, and Thai from South East Asia, combining in this complex sativa variety in an exquisitely balanced and perfectly symphonic way. THC: 18.49 % CBD: 0.03-0.04 % CBG: 1.47-2.55 %
Effects: The first phenotype provides at least 3 hours of guaranteed long-lasting energy and motivation, with a clean finish and hardly any degradation. Strong initial energetic and motivating effect of premium quality, with a very cerebral and clean, expansive head high that clears and intensifies perception and senses. Really powerful: it's hard to finish the joint, and after half an hour you're almost climbing the walls, with intense whirlwinds of thoughts and strong physical agitation. An hour later it starts to calm down and becomes psychologically friendlier, warmer and more playful, but still with a lot of drive. Very suitable for daytime use, for work and activities. In contrast, the psychoactivity of the second phenotype is extremely balanced, elegant, pleasant. Clean, centred and focused, warm and positive, creative and motivating as well as relaxing. It provides mental clarity, a sense of well-being and physical lightness (like levitating on cotton wool), expanding and intensifying the senses, with a distinctive healing effect that runs through body, mind and soul.
Terpene profile: high terpinolene content, moderate amounts of alpha & beta pinene, myrcene, ocimene, limonene, linalool, traces of delta 3 carene & alpha terpinene.
Sesquiterpenes: moderate content in beta caryophyllene humulene, and alpha bisabolol, guaiol and trans nerolidol in small amounts.
Bouquet: Delicious, intoxicating and refined aromas: fruit bubblegum (strawberry, passion fruit, mango, ripe orange and sweet lemon), with flower petals, perfume, musk, liqueur, incense, hashish, lavender, lime blossom, jasmine, and hot-spicy touches... all beautifully balanced and in perfect harmony. Elegant and fine smoke on the palate, markedly lemony, fresh, floral, clean and expansive in the compact plants. More complex, creamy, sweet and fruity in the tall plants. In both cases with cream, banana and sweet-spicy touches.
This mythical sativa, which has been the starting point for the development of the best hybrids of the past decades, was about to disappear during the 1980s due to the introduction of skunks and indicas in the breeding scene.
Oldtimer’s Haze population has been preserved intact until today by Oldtimer, a british breeder, and then reproduced by our breeders using a wide variety of parental plants.
This pure Haze still preserves the genetic diversity that many present Haze lines have already lost, and it is possible to find phenotypes ranging from the mythic and nearly extinct Purple Haze to the most common Green Haze phenotype, and of course intermediate combinations as well. THC: 8-12% CBD: below 0.05% CBG: 0.16 – 0.23%
Genetics: Stabilized hybrid of different tropical sativas from the 60s and 70s, mainly old Colombian sativas.
High: Stimulating, mental effect. High THC/ low CBD ratio that produces an unlimited effect without ceiling. The green phenotypes produce a more sociable and euphoric effect, while the Purple Haze phenos tend to be more introspective.
Terpene profile: It mainly contains the following monoterpenes: high amounts of beta myrcene (2/3 parts), moderate amounts of trans ocimene and alpha pinene, and variability in the presence of small amounts of beta pinene. Sesquiterpenes: two thirds of beta-caryophyllene and one-third of alpha-humelene in the green phenotype (Green Haze), although the purple phenotype (Purple Haze) shows absence of sesquiterpenes.
Bouquet: Ancient and metallic 'old school' sativa: wood, spice and incense, with ripe tropical fruits in the green expressions, and berries and black liquor in the Purple Haze phenotypes.
Traditional hash plant from the Rif area near to Ketama and Chefchaouen, famous for producing kif (the traditional blend of cannabis flowers with tobacco) and the famous Moroccan blond hash.
This pure Moroccan strain is one of the fastest psychoactive sativa landraces on the planet, due to its semi autoflowering traits and its very short flowering time.
High:Light potency. Cerebral and physically sensual start, which increases and distorts perceptions. Its development increases introspection and inner life, finishing with a pleasant relaxation and sedation, causing the classic “wasted” face and red eyes produced by good Moroccan hashish.
Terpene profile: It mainly contains the following monoterpenes: high amounts of alpha pinene and beta myrcene, followed by beta pinene in smaller quantities. Sesquiterpenes: mainly beta-caryophyllene (2/3 parts) and smaller amounts of alpha-humulene (1/3).
Bouquet: Woody, earthy, spicy and herbal, with 'golden' and honeyed touches, reminiscent of classic Moroccan blond hash.
This leads me to believe two things 1). The effects of terpenes likely are somewhat real. 2). They likely exert their effects by some other means than activatingolfactory receptors.
Of all the people on BL I'm surprised you haven't seen the (hundreds?) of papers about the pharmacological MOA of terpenoids. I estimate they are responsible for at least 40-50% of the plants overall theraputic and psychoactive effects. They're also active orally & topically.
Terpenoids interact with practically every area including dopamine, serotonin, opioid, adrenergic, GABA, cannabinoid, glutamate, adenosine, TRP*, BDNF, CCB, cholinergic and dozens of enzymes (eg COX2, p450, MAOI).
A cheap 10ml bottle of pure stream-distilled lemon essential oil contains mostly limomene with secondary pinene. It is psychoactive stand-alone.
Lemon, lime & orange have limomene-dominant terpene profiles (lemon is usually ~70%, lime ~40%, orange 90%+).
Pine oil has a pinene-dominant profile ft alpha-pinene, beta-pinene, carene ( = sativa: stimulating)
So far I've done 3 high dose experiments with lemon essential oil, and I've experienced psychedelic effects all 3 times.
1st experiment (30 drops lemon oil, orally):
Tried 30 drops in 1 liter of water. About an hour later I started feeling some stimulation. Within 3 hours, I was highly stimulated and euphoric. I had a very loving, warm, gregarious feeling about me. I was very social. Mild visuals
2nd experiment (60 drops lemon oil total, orally):
T0:00 - 20 drops lemon oil taken orally in 1 liter of water
T0:30 - 20 additional drops taken orally in 1 liter of water
T1:30 - stimulation suddenly comes on and is heavy. Similar to description from 1st experiment.
T2:00 - 20 additional drops taken orally in 1 liter of water. Obviously, I start having to urinate often.
T2:30 - felt like a low dose of acid. Holy crap, I'm feeling it. Very stimulated, feel very outgoing and loving towards the world. Visuals are intense. At a concert and people on stage and in crowd look like they are glowing. The walls are breathing. I have a beer at the concert and don't feel the effects at all; I decide not to consume any more alcohol for fear of getting myself into trouble.
T6:00 - start coming down, but it isn't unpleasant. Stimulation wears off as I head home from the concert. I fall asleep and have a restful sleep.Next morning - a bit tired but fine. No soreness.
3rd experiment (40 drops lemon oil, topically):
I mixed 20 drops and 1/4 tsp of olive oil directly on my right leg and rub it in well. I do the same dosing to my left leg, resulting in a total topical dose of 40 drops lemon essential oil. There is some excess oil that I rubbed into my arms and torso.
T0:00 - Right after rubbing in, feel a mild heart rate increase.
T0:10 - Start feeling mentally and emotionally stimulated.
T0:30 - Wow, this is getting intense. Feels basically like the 60 drops from above, but cleaner. A lot of visuals again, not as much of the walls breathing, but still shapes and colors are distorted, and I notice lights and auras that are probably not there.
T1:00 (Present) - Very peaceful, loving feeling, psychostimulation, and all around pleasant psychedelic experience. I have thus far experienced no cramps or soreness from this preparation. I feel awesome. I'm still coming up. This should be a good ride.
Disclaimer: dilute terpene/essential oils before use and never use pure. Mixing in olive oil does the job. Don't ingest stupid amounts, use equivalents to how much terpene oils would be present in RSO or rosin for example.
Maybe it's different in the US since legalisation but certainly in the UK there was no terpenes in ANY cannabis on the black market for the last 20 years. All been destroyed long before it got to us.
Things have improved recently with the darknet and people specifically adding terpenes to the THC.
both terpenes and minor cannabinoids profiles do matter in the subjective effects of cannabis. most importantly is the ratio of the various constituents rather than amounts
Maybe it's different in the US since legalisation but certainly in the UK there was no terpenes in ANY cannabis on the black market for the last 20 years. All been destroyed long before it got to us.
Not sure who your suppliers were but I can assure you that UK cannabis has had terpenes for decades. For future reference look for the Jamaican growers as they have a certain sense of honour regarding quality.
It's simpler to make THC from CBD and add your own choice of terpenes depending on what effects you want. CBD isolate is cheap and OTC, so is lemon juice. That's all you need for unlimited THC.
I'd have to disagree with you Ally - I've been buying grass for 30 years, never been any terpenes in any of it. Not one. Why would there be? It takes twice as much effort to grow it, twice as much effort to dry it and there's no buyers even know what terpenes are. So you're spending a load more money and effort for something that you'll sell for exactly the same price. How many buyers are likely to say "Has it got any terpenes in it dude"? There's only me and you in the UK.
The first time I had terpenes was about 6 months ago when I got some RSO. Then I started getting stuff like "D9 with added terpenes".
i thought terpenes grew in all weed naturally, different terpenes from different weed around the world to help them survive in their unique habitat. that's what google says.
pretty sure certain terpenes are responsible for opening up the lungs. the weed i used to get in early 2000's in NE USA made my lungs feel great and cough shit up. a lot better than most of the legal stuff now. i had a lot of bad black market weed though too, but the best was before legalization. a lot of bad stuff around too then.
i pretty much just get the same high from all weed like i said. very subtle differences. terpenes should affect the taste and smell and also how it makes the lungs feel. i don't really get much out of cannabinoids either from researching what i've been consuming since weed has been legal.
i'm interested in trying the tinctures of terpenes. i'm not even saying they don't do anything in flower, i'm more saying i don't get anything out of reading the top three or main terpenes. i'm gonna guess that crossing the terpenes different ways will create dramatically different smells and tastes, and also a terpene could be listed in a small amount and probably play a large role in the flavor profile..
Yeah give the tinctures a try. They play a lot bigger part than just flavours tho - they have enormous mental effects. The tinctures are the way to go - you wont get much of a terpene hit from everyday weed
They do. Cannabis is the only plant I'm aware of that can make a wide range of terpenes. Lemon only makes lemon terpenes, pepper only makes pepper terpenes, clove, pine, lime ... but cannabis can make a wide variety. Hop can as well, it's in the same family as cannabis...
pretty sure certain terpenes are responsible for opening up the lungs. the weed i used to get in early 2000's in NE USA made my lungs feel great and cough shit up.
They do yup, decongestant + expectorant effects like cineole from eucalyptus oil and Haze strains.
"Cineole has been shown to possess anti-inflammatory, expectorant, and bronchodilator properties making it effective in alleviating symptoms like nasal congestion and bronchial tightness."
This is what I've been doing. It works pretty well.
Anyone has access to all (well most) terpenes that exist using stream-distilled essential oils. You can make any type of terpene mix you want, pure Sativa, pure Indica and everything in-between.
Essential oils are pretty much just pre-mixed terpenes. Lemon, lime & orange have limomene-dominant terpene profiles...lemon is usually ~70%, lime ~40%, orange 90%+. Pine oil has a pinene-dominant profile etc etc.
Sometimes I don't even use cannabinoids the terpene effects are plenty.
...and effects. The terpenes are all psychoactive so you can use OTC pure essential oils to create whatever high you want. THC optional. ...or buy pure terpene isolates if you prefer. If you add 1 drop of pure lemon oil to a rizzla (using a toothpick works) this works pretty well. Or use it like RSO.
