Do Reputable Colleges Still Even Exist?

[SpunkySkunk347]

Since I was 14 I wanted to get into the medical industry. Having started using drugs at around age 14 and doing a lot of research about them, and then realizing that the doctors I went to didn't know half as much about the medications they were prescribing, I felt like I could probably do a lot of good if I became a doctor myself.

But are there even any safe havens left for learning? The internet just doesn't cut it after a point when you want to learn something in-depth, but colleges these days seem like they've all turned into money-grabbing diploma mills..
Even worse, when you go to a school and let the staff know you are genuinely interested in learning as opposed to just getting into a career to make money, they look at you like you're a fucking joke.. I was reading Nietzsche, Kant, and Jung at 17, what were they doing then? Trying to perfect the art of crafting an ego entirely out of bullshit?

Egos aside, where does a person turn when they actually love learning and have loved learning their entire life? Is there any place left that isn't just teaching cookbook recipes? Or are those people just on their own?

One of the only places left I know about with legitimate quality information is university libraries that still have all their older books - which sucks because the closest university to here flooded last summer, and the section of their library with all their older books was in the basement, and all those books were completely destroyed.

 

[alasdairm]

I was reading Nietzsche, Kant, and Jung at 17, what were they doing then? Trying to perfect the art of crafting an ego entirely out of bullshit?

"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!" (robert burns)

i'm surprised that somebody so talented (and humble to boot) is having trouble answering such a simple question...

alasdair

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

Don't other people just see us in whatever way is most convenient and beneficial to them? They can dismiss us if they feel challenged/threatened, or they can adore us if they feel like we have something to offer them. But what is there to gain from a person who has denounced personal incentive?
Fat cattle is what they are, waiting for you to give them a treat.

When we were kids and teachers and parents told us that everyone in the world cared and everyone loved us, was there any truth to that? Were things better in the past and we've somehow fucked it up? Or did we just swallow it all because we were kids and didn't know any better? Is that really the best gift the world can give a person? A childhood of ignorance, where the cruelty of real life remains invisible until youth fades and we're no longer adorable children that people will help out of vanity?

Love is a bit like Santa Clause, everyone will play along with the delusion you believe in, just as long as you do believe in it. And when you grow out of it, you realize it isn't real.

 

[alasdairm]

Don't other people just see us in whatever way is most convenient and beneficial to them?

aren't you just as guilty of that? it's the easiest thing in the world to call somebody a sheep or cattle just because they've made a different choice than you...

in one fell swoop, you accuse an entire category of people of ego and bullshot. well, based on recent posts on bluelight, i see a lot of ego and bullshit in 'you'. am i wrong?

alasdair

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

aren't you just as guilty of that? it's the easiest thing in the world to call somebody a sheep or cattle just because they've made a different choice than you...

in one fell swoop, you accuse an entire category of people of ego and bullshot. well, based on recent posts on bluelight, i see a lot of ego and bullshit in 'you'. am i wrong?

alasdair

I try to be egotistical when it comes to philosophical thought; make a sport out of it. I guess the idea is that other people might chime in with their own philosophical thoughts if they think of it as a game. Things can get done so much faster when you set aside personal gain and use things like "pride" and "honor" for motivation instead; just look at Nazi Germany.

No one, no matter how much of a saint it might make them, is willing to do something they don't want to do. Why not? They lack discipline!

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

Stereotypical drug user I am; blaming other people for my problems, claiming other people are too selfish.
Well where is their counter-argument? It seems to be "You're right, we are selfish. Saying that out in the open doesn't change the fact. The world probably shouldn't work this way, but it does, and you're not going to be able to do a damn thing about it. Become selfish yourself so you're actually worth talking to."

Got a girl? Think she loves you? She'll leave as soon as you have a bad day; the kind of bad day where everything falls apart and nothing makes sense and you have to rebuild everything again. You become dead to her when that happens. Begging her to stay only makes her squirm to get away faster. She has no patience, and why would she? Society's catered to her every need; women are like infants in adult's bodies.

aren't you just as guilty of that? it's the easiest thing in the world to call somebody a sheep or cattle just because they've made a different choice than you...

Not sheep; cattle. Sheep follow you when you try to lead them somewhere. Cattle go to wherever the food is.

 

[ebola?]

Even worse, when you go to a school and let the staff know you are genuinely interested in learning as opposed to just getting into a career to make money, they look at you like you're a fucking joke..

Are you sure that you're not just imagining what university staff might say? I mean...I've taught undergrads, and none of my colleagues had this attitude.

I try to be egotistical when it comes to philosophical thought; make a sport out of it. I guess the idea is that other people might chime in with their own philosophical thoughts if they think of it as a game.

I disagree. I think that this approach to philosophy/theory/semiotic frameworks corrupts the search for truth by directing discussants to try to WIN rather than critically interrogate their own ideas. Being right should be more important than seeming right, and learning should be more important than demonstrating knowledge. And I think that contentious, competitive contexts can dissuade many from participating.

ebola

 

[Pegasus]

It is hard for me to think of a large human organization in any sense that functions at anywhere near an optimal level. Speaking of Jung, I think it was he who pointed out that as any organization grows larger, more of its makeup shifts to management roles and the organization loses its original purpose, instead focusing more on maintaining the entity itself. So it seems that the institution of a school is pretty much doomed to mediocrity once it has more than a few professors. In large schools, the best learning experiences are always going to be from the individuals who manage to have their own inspired style in spite of the culture of mediocrity around them-- Hopefully there are professors like this in most programs.

I'm going through enormous amounts of loathing towards the university system myself at the moment, but I do have to say this: school does fulfill its function at legitimizing and standardizing people for the workplace. For many people, this is the primary reason for going to school. While most people hope to learn great things at university, the primary goal is to drive their careers, and universities do legitimately help build careers. My personal view on this topic is that I go to school primarily for career training, but looking to learn more when and where it comes to me. I continue to learn truly interesting stuff on my own outside of school, and just try to take school for what it is.

Thank you for posting this... My response is as much to myself as it is to you.

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

Are you sure that you're not just imagining what university staff might say? I mean...I've taught undergrads, and none of my colleagues had this attitude.

To tell a teacher that you're not interested in cookie-recipes and actually want to learn something is like slapping them in the face and saying they aren't actually teaching. The easiest way out of this for them is to just dismiss you as a moron

I disagree. I think that this approach to philosophy/theory/semiotic frameworks corrupts the search for truth by directing discussants to try to WIN rather than critically interrogate their own ideas. Being right should be more important than seeming right, and learning should be more important than demonstrating knowledge. And I think that contentious, competitive contexts can dissuade many from participating.

ebola

I think that people aren't going to talk about these things otherwise; but if you challenge their ego, they'll have to start coming up with opinions of their own, which is a good thing.
In most scenarios, people are already trying to "win"; their philosophical thoughts are just a means to an end. Once you challenge them out in the open however, they can't keep relying on clever wording, and they have to assume a position of vulnerability and state what their actual thoughts on something are.

 

[ebola?]

To tell a teacher that you're not interested in cookie-recipes and actually want to learn something is like slapping them in the face and saying they aren't actually teaching. The easiest way out of this for them is to just dismiss you as a moron.

Ah. In the US, we don't fund primary or secondary education, so most instructors lack the time or resources to give individually tailored attention. Trust me that it gets better with higher ed. If I were to give a younger me advice, I would tell him to drop out of high school and transfer into community college ASAP.

Once you challenge them out in the open however, they can't keep relying on clever wording, and they have to assume a position of vulnerability and state what their actual thoughts on something are.

Why need we play such games? I don't need them. Do you? What makes me (or maybe us) so special?

ebola

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

Ah. In the US, we don't fund primary or secondary education, so most instructors lack the time or resources to give individually tailored attention. Trust me that it gets better with higher ed. If I were to give a younger me advice, I would tell him to drop out of high school and transfer into community college ASAP.

So because the education system is poorly organized, it takes years of learning and paying for classes when all the information you needed to begin with could have been taught to you in a matter of a few days if someone had just broken it down for you?
Sounds like bullshit.

Why need we play such games? I don't need them. Do you? What makes me (or maybe us) so special?

ebola

Once we start thinking for ourselves by asking these kinds of questions, our real potential will start to become more apparent, and if everyone gets on the same page, we'll finally be able to get out of this fucking god-awful system.. Whose agenda are you fulfilling? That of the people, or that of your superiors?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyI1cXHXnlE

 

[jam uh weezy]

Research various school and what they are known for.

In my humble opinion, it is the teachers that ultimately shape the educational experience, followed by your own reaction towards your education. (Ultimately, because of course they have to deal within the constraints of bureaucracy).

Even the best schools are going to have bad teachers.

Try not to go to a school that is heavily impacted with students, with huge numbers in each class.

Also, personally, I say STAY AWAY from for-profit educational institutions.

 

[New]

So you're basically calling the collection of human knowledge up to this point bullshit, spunky? These "cookie-recipes" are the result of years and decades of hard work. Breakthroughs are made off of people building upon and improving pre-existing ideas. You need a basic framework to do any real learning, or else everyone would have to rediscover the pool of human knowledge.

 

[double ewe]

one of the most mature things a person can do is recognize the limits of their knowledge and abilities. your insistence that you know everything is clear evidence that you don't.

To tell a teacher that you're not interested in cookie-recipes and actually want to learn something is like slapping them in the face and saying they aren't actually teaching. The easiest way out of this for them is to just dismiss you as a moron

most professors would be excited to find a student interested in learning more advanced concepts. this is a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

your insistence that you know everything is clear evidence that you don't.

I never said anything close to "I know everything" (if you missed the point of my thread, it was the very fact that I don't know everything and want to learn more); I was on speed and went on a rambling spree, but you're still confusing me for your subconscious projections of what kind of person you think I am

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

So you're basically calling the collection of human knowledge up to this point bullshit, spunky?

No, I'd say we've made some decent progress up until recently; and now we're just spewing out bullshit because "no one knows anymore" and the only people who are doing real research and development are corporations

 

[New]

^Well, look for a school that accepts evolution without trying to 'teach the controversy', points out "climate change(global warming)" as fact...universities and colleges are simultaneously businesses and learning institutions. To try to divorce the business aspect from the academic aspect is futile and a waste of time. The top schools in the country are still the top schools in the country. The main reason books are being destroyed is because a digital copy exists on Google Books or Kindle. A lot of times it doesn't matter where the schools get their money from - the facts are the facts and no amount of money will change that.

But if you're still nervous about committing to a single school, find the school you're interested and do your own thorough research on it - how much money goes to teaching students, what reputation the school has, how many successful graduates are produced...we're still making progress in leaps and bounds; it just so happens that corporations are the ones funding the most recent ones as opposed to the government. Science is science - don't let horror stories of corporate bias turn you off from getting the education that you deserve.

 

[rangrz]

Got a girl? Think she loves you? She'll leave as soon as you have a bad day; the kind of bad day where everything falls apart and nothing makes sense and you have to rebuild everything again. You become dead to her when that happens. Begging her to stay only makes her squirm to get away faster. She has no patience, and why would she? Society's catered to her every need; women are like infants in adult's bodies.

Oh really? I dunno...My S/O has been with me thru some of the worst days I've ever had. She's also going to a reputable university, for medicine no less. Oh not to mention, I've served in the forces with some extremely disciplined women who are certifiably bad asses. Your sexism is revolting and unappealing.

As for reputable colleges? You think you know more about the drugs your Rxed than your Dr does. Or more generally, more about medicine than they do? Cool story bro. Care to tell me about all those patients in arrest you've resuscitated? or head traumas you've operated on? Or let's keep it simple and down to Earth, can you DDx a red, inflamed throat from the options of Viral infection, bacterial infection, chemical irritation, thermal injury/burn, physical trauma, post nasal drip, allergies like cat or hay fever, and tissue catabolism from corticosteroid drugs?

Maybe you want to show off your amazing grasp of the physical world to me...explain the electron self interaction to me.

Basically, yeah I can understand you are frustrated, but you seem to have a lot of unwarranted self importance...dare I say it...even more than I do!

 

[SpunkySkunk347]

Oh really? I dunno...My S/O has been with me thru some of the worst days I've ever had. She's also going to a reputable university, for medicine no less. Oh not to mention, I've served in the forces with some extremely disciplined women who are certifiably bad asses. Your sexism is revolting and unappealing.

As for reputable colleges? You think you know more about the drugs your Rxed than your Dr does. Or more generally, more about medicine than they do? Cool story bro. Care to tell me about all those patients in arrest you've resuscitated? or head traumas you've operated on? Or let's keep it simple and down to Earth, can you DDx a red, inflamed throat from the options of Viral infection, bacterial infection, chemical irritation, thermal injury/burn, physical trauma, post nasal drip, allergies like cat or hay fever, and tissue catabolism from corticosteroid drugs?

Maybe you want to show off your amazing grasp of the physical world to me...explain the electron self interaction to me.

Basically, yeah I can understand you are frustrated, but you seem to have a lot of unwarranted self importance...dare I say it...even more than I do!

Yeah I was in the midst of amphetamine-induced egomania when typing that reply out, sorry. And I am sexist, can't lie about that (interestingly I always believed women were the fairer of the two sexes until I was about 17-18 ). Most women are spoiled shallow brats (was going to mention that they are like children in adult's bodies but I see I already mentioned that).

And regarding the medical system, have you ever actually tried asking your doctor about a medication? I dare you to ask your doctor about the half-life of any given medication, or the pharmacology or pharmacokinetics of it. You will be simply amazed at how fucking dumb your doctor is. And don't even think for a second that those "super-genius surgeons" and "ER miracle workers" are anything less than exceptionally rare -- truth is, a doctor is many times more likely to kill you than something like a homicidal maniac on a shooting rampage. And by "many times more likely", I mean that lethal malpractice is so fucking common its terrifying - 195,000 people die from malpractice each year in the US alone. Your doctor skated through school to get a piece of paper with his name on it, he's a big pretender, and he's making baaaaaank $$$, he's livin a gangsta's paradise

You make it sound like doctors are masters of their craft, yet they sit their scratching their head wondering why their patient's breathing slowed down and eventually stopped after they just pumped them full of analgesics and sedatives while they were already on antihistamines, neuroleptics, and a bunch of other prescribed medication that the doctor didn't even look down at the chart to see they were on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkPGlVqqEP0