Do psychedelics evolve your soul energetically and emotionally?

[astralprojectee]

I think this is the big question for all who use psychedelics to understand the spiritual. Now I think it's already a given that psychedelics would evolve our beliefs, but what about the energetic emotional part of our souls? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Ninae]

Isn't it more like they can evolve your personality or lower self by bringing it in touch with your soul? The soul has come here to evolve by being trapped in this experience, I think. Taking drugs that bring you in touch with the spiritual levels are like a holiday from that, although it can assist your development if it's not too often.

 

[CosmicG]

Psychedelics made me a much more empathetic human being. This can be seen as a good thing but also a bad thing depending on the situation. I like to think of it as a positive character trait, though at times I can be too nice and somewhat of a pushover. IME most people I come across and interact with on a daily basis are always looking for an opportunity to take advantage of others by preying on their weaknesses.

I am much more sensitive to others feelings as well as the way others make me feel. Maybe I have always been sensitive though, psychedelics just made me more aware of it as well as more aware of the sensitivity others may have.

I agree with your theory ninae. To find a way to connect the self with the soul. That's where I find the most meaning to be in life.

 

[p-helix]

I think this is the big question for all who use psychedelics to understand the spiritual. Now I think it's already a given that psychedelics would evolve our beliefs, but what about the energetic emotional part of our souls? What are your thoughts on this?

They highlight the importance of the spiritual and how, when and where to channel your emotional energies.

Isn't it more like they can evolve your personality or lower self by bringing it in touch with your soul? The soul has come here to evolve by being trapped in this experience, I think. Taking drugs that bring you in touch with the spiritual levels are like a holiday from that, although it can assist your development if it's not too often.

'Not too often' is important. If you become too well adjusted to the psychedelic state it is the problems of everyday life that ensue which will sorely test your spirit; longevity, stamina and reliability are most often required in the mental and physical worlds we live in, and most of us are prepared to live in ignorance of sorts in order to live most of the time. The psychedelic experience represents a life-enhancing holiday or prism through which to reveal the wonder of our existence, through which we further depend on grounding ourselves in everyday reality in order to live successfully. The body and mind needs to learn best how and when to further the long-term goal of the human patient when it comes to food and drugs. Equilibrium and well-being, spiritual growth being guided and reigned in by the soul. Love.

 

[ForEverAfter]

'Not too often' is important.

Yes and no... It's more dose dependent, IMO... People tend to intentionally "overdose" with psychs, so that they feel inebriated (like with other drugs)... A strong blotter of acid turns most people into gibbering idiots and they learn nothing, regardless of their usage frequency.

I've seen many, many people go backwards - spiritually / emotionally / functionally - with psychedelics...
It's more common for people to go backwards than it is to go forwards.
This doesn't only apply to repeat users.

Over the decades, I've seen many people have single trips that totally derail their sanity for prolonged periods of time.
Most psychedelic users aren't interested in growth, from my observations.
Your average psychedelic user isn't exactly enlightened...
Just go to rave to confirm this.

In the end, I think, you get out of an experience what you want to get out of it.
I find methamphetamine and dissociatives to be comparably mind-opening.
Hangovers are great, too. (But not alcohol.)

Sobriety, I think, can have as much potential... but I'm not quite there yet.

 

[Ninae]

Well, if you're on kinds of drugs that enable spiritual connection all the time it becomes like a permanent holiday. That might seem good from the perspective of the personality or lower self, which you're otherwise trapped in, in fact it does. But if you see it from the perspective of the soul, or the higher self that have come to evolve by being limited in conscousness this way, it kind of negates that and the tremendous effort that's been made to bring this about.

I think for sure the object is to find a way to break through on your own power without the aid of drugs. It's generally seen as cheating as it doesn't teach you to make that connection on your own, and when the effect of the drug fades your experience of higher consciousness states and the spiritual world also fades. So someone who has lived a life where they have only made their spiritual connections that way aren't like someone who have learned it naturally. In their next life they might not be any further, while someone who has worked hard for a lifetime to raise their consciousness can carry on where they left off and has made actual progress.

But it can sure be helpful to show you there is such a thing so you can also experience some of it the rest of the time and inspire you to work for it, which you otherwise might not have. I think this is how shamans see it and they're quite strict with how it's used so over-use or recreational use isn't permitted and it's limited to special occasions like initiations and holidays and that's probably the right way to use it. There are also some ideas that Jesus made use of some of these plants to enable the understanding of his followers which, might have happened since there's a long tradition for this.

It can be hard to make someone feel ambitious about working to attain higher levels of consciousness and spiritual experiences when they have no idea what it feels like, as it can't really be conveyed by words, and you can also see there very few with much interest in it. It has always been interesting to me, even before I knew what it felt like, but to most it just seems so distant and incomprehensible you can't really make them feel any enthusiasm for it. I've tried with my sisters, and even though they're quite high-consciousness they just don't see anything in it. The closest most get to transcendant experiences is when they experience something special in life, like falling in love or having a child, that pulls them up to a higher level (for a while).

And that's what most people are like, but it makes you so dependent on the world for everything, and things don't always work out in the most ideal way. If you can hold a higher level of consciousness you become more independent or self-sufficient and don't need so much from the world so you're not so much at the mercy of people, etc. and I think that's your ultimate goal. So consciousness-expanding drugs can help you with that, but it's not so good when it becomes a substitite, and tends to be seen as a form of spiritual crime.

 

[murphythecat]

what about the energetic emotional part of our souls? What are your thoughts on this?

what is a soul? and what is a energetic emotional part of our soul?

for me, psy really showed me the spiritual side of life, what it is and that its all that matters and that if we better ourselve, we better then universe and that we have a huge responsibility toward life, consciousness, whatever you want to call it .

 

[astralprojectee]

Thanks to all of you who chimed in here.

Isn't it more like they can evolve your personality or lower self by bringing it in touch with your soul?

That's another way of looking at it.

what is a soul? and what is a energetic emotional part of our soul?

For me the soul can mean a few things. But I would say the most fundamental part of the soul is the energetic part of our multi-dimensional self that leaves our body at death. Though the soul is still here in the physical, though I suppose it's harder to pin down while here in the physical.

Other than that there does seem to be a close relationship between ones emotions and especially feelings of being and the soul.

Yes and no... It's more dose dependent, IMO... People tend to intentionally "overdose" with psychs, so that they feel inebriated (like with other drugs)... A strong blotter of acid turns most people into gibbering idiots and they learn nothing, regardless of their usage frequency.

I've seen many, many people go backwards - spiritually / emotionally / functionally - with psychedelics...
It's more common for people to go backwards than it is to go forwards.
This doesn't only apply to repeat users.

Over the decades, I've seen many people have single trips that totally derail their sanity for prolonged periods of time.
Most psychedelic users aren't interested in growth, from my observations.
Your average psychedelic user isn't exactly enlightened...
Just go to rave to confirm this.

In the end, I think, you get out of an experience what you want to get out of it.
I find methamphetamine and dissociatives to be comparably mind-opening.
Hangovers are great, too. (But not alcohol.)

Sobriety, I think, can have as much potential... but I'm not quite there yet.

That is a refreshing point, though I tend to think that psychedelics should still be explored regardless so that we can eventually get to the point where we as a society knows how to use these power tools to helps us grow. Until then we must be careful to not abuse them.

Thanks again everybody for chiming in.

 

[What 23]

I think that they can.
I think that just about anything can, as well, if someone has a mind for it...

Our experience, no matter what, is an evolution of our soul (?)
Everything is an opportunity
Perhaps because of the energy and change in perspective that drugs can allow, people can put this to use.

 

[p-helix]

I don't understand exactly why I tend to regard DMT or Mescaline, for example, as more progressive in terms of personal growth than other types of drug, or no drugs ever, but I do. I suppose when I take heroin, very infrequently mind, I tend to have a good time followed by several days of low mood, some regression, mentally and physically, whereas DMT or Mescaline provide a value of insight and wisdom that makes me feel better in the short, medium the long term. I tend towards moderation and infrequency nowadays with my drug use but I like to challenge myself sometimes for the sake of a new experience.
Cannabis is another drug I use which I claim makes me better but the memories, beauty and insights are negligible in comparison to DMT and Mescaline, partly because my regular use of cannabis is like an addiction, of course. For occasional use, alcohol is like a more socially acceptable softer form of heroin in relation to whatever spiritual growth and side-effects are derived. All drugs can be spiritual by using them, the after-effects are a slightly different story, but are not necessarily spiritually damaging experiences either. Addiction is spiritually damaging because it smacks of a weakness and dissatisfaction with what is all of the time. It takes time to build and progress in life.
Psychedelic harms are certainly not the least harmful by any stretch so I will always endeavour to tread carefully. There have been too many casualties along the way including my own difficulties with HPPD as a regular LSD user of teenage raver days.

 

[ForEverAfter]

I don't think alcohol is comparable to heroin.
Heroin, for me, is a beautiful spiritual drug.
Whereas alcohol is (pretty much) shit.

I tend to think that psychedelics should still be explored regardless so that we can eventually get to the point where we as a society knows how to use these power tools to helps us grow.

Yeah, but (like I said) it's all about intention. They need to be explored in the right way.
And, realistically, that's not going to happen (anytime soon, anyway) on a mass-scale.
People are (seemingly) more interested in getting fucked up, then they are in growing.

 

[swilow]

Yes and no... It's more dose dependent, IMO... People tend to intentionally "overdose" with psychs, so that they feel inebriated (like with other drugs)... A strong blotter of acid turns most people into gibbering idiots and they learn nothing, regardless of their usage frequency.

I sort of agree, I kind of prefer taking lower doses and giving my intuition a kickstart, but not totally derail it. But with certain psychedelics, full immersion is almost a requirement and I speak here of ayahuasca, DMT, 5-Meo-DMT and so forth. Some psychedelics require an overdose of sorts, which can be done safely.

Over the decades, I've seen many people have single trips that totally derail their sanity for prolonged periods of time.
Most psychedelic users aren't interested in growth, from my observations.
Your average psychedelic user isn't exactly enlightened...
Just go to rave to confirm this.

Its about intent though. If you go into tripping with a purpose of sorts, and if that purpose is disruption of something unhelpful in place of something otherwise unconceived, this can certainly work. Then there are people who derive their sense of spirituality almost solely from psychedelics. These people will often benefit from tripping because they intend it. And there are those who simply want a good time (no harm in that IMO) but something a bit more... I suppose that last one is few and far between...

I used to, but no longer, advocate psychedelics. They are very hit-and-miss for most people, and more often seem to miss. For me, they have worked pretty much as intended and have truly benefited me greatly. If I could quanitify it, it probably amounts to an increased willingness to entertain the other side of life and a decreased willingness to be a normal boring cunt :D Which are slightly adolescent and unbefitting attributes for a 32 year old, but psychedelics also made me not care to much about that But some of these attributes could also be related to my personal circumstances which have made parts of life comparatively easy.

For some people psychedelics can catalyse a beautiful and eye-opening experience, for others they introduce hell and sorrow. If I was more careful, I probably wouldn't touch these things but its too late They've shaped me, in ways that I won't probably ever be able to change. I guess that is a bit unsettling.

 

[Xorkoth]

Psychedelics certainly can be used to evolve a person emotionally, mentally and spiritually, but they don't just do it automatically. It takes a significant amount of work from you to make it so. For some, psychedelics seem to produce negative results. I believe this is because of one of two reasons: either someone has an underlying condition that they exacerbate, or someone is unwilling to face what they see.

For me, psychedelics have catalyzed huge changes in my beliefs and life in many areas. I am changed forever because of them, mostly spiritually since they revealed to me our spiritual nature, and before that I was of the belief that spirituality was a lie and nothing means anything. I'd never take it back; my life is decidedly better as a result of psychedelics.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Oh, my fucking God.
Why did I not think I was going to he hungover and drink some fucking water?
Shit. I want to die.

- This, what I'm experiencing right now, is a perfect example of why alcohol is shit.
God damn mother fucking shit.

 

[p-helix]

I don't think alcohol is comparable to heroin.
Heroin, for me, is a beautiful spiritual drug.
Whereas alcohol is (pretty much) shit.



Yeah, but (like I said) it's all about intention. They need to be explored in the right way.
And, realistically, that's not going to happen (anytime soon, anyway) on a mass-scale.
People are (seemingly) more interested in getting fucked up, then they are in growing.

I have used more heroin than alcohol over the years so I would pretty much agree with you in terms of preferences. I suppose I meant they are both addictive downers, and therefore their side-effects are not altogether dissimilar. Heroin can be a beautiful spiritual drug at times but many would say that for alcohol too. Their side-effects can be fairly wearing but agreed heroin is better.

Psychedelics on the other hand require discipline and effort. They are not necessarily more spiritual in their use than other drugs but there is generally more scope from which to derive positive spiritual life-changing effects than other drugs. Others may argue a good drink is better. These are all subjective scenarios but psychedelics offer an opportunity to decondition oneself from one's ordinary reality and provide more of a close-up and personal view of one's spiritual nature.

Oh, my fucking God.
Why did I not think I was going to he hungover and drink some fucking water?
Shit. I want to die.

- This, what I'm experiencing right now, is a perfect example of why alcohol is shit.
God damn mother fucking shit.

Water is the most fabulous compound with the greatest healing properties and spiritual benefits I have ever taken.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Yeah, of course it's subjective.

For some people heroin is as spiritless as psychedelics can be (at their worst)... and, for some, alcohol is more spiritual than heroin (I suppose) although I don't really know how that's possible. Like, I understand how it's possible that someone who's never had heroin might think that they're comparable by seeing a heroin addict at their worst. But, I don't understand - honestly - how someone who has personally had both (enough times to properly understand and identify the differences between the experiences) could possibly say anything of the sort.

If I was to compare the after effects (and I'm experiencing a hangover right now), I'd be more likely to consider the notion that alcohol is "easier" to overcome... I had a really bad hangover a month or so ago, though... I woke up vomiting, and didn't stop for eight hours. It became painful to vomit, but I had to. I was extremely dehydrated. I, honestly, wanted to die... I said to my girlfriend that I'd rather be going through heroin withdrawals.

If heroin was legal and cheap, I'd be recovering from opiates right now rather than alcohol.
Obviously, I don't represent most of society. But, then again, most of society is too afraid to try heroin.
I'm not suggesting that people try heroin... What I'm trying to get across is this: alcohol is the worst (popular) drug.

 

[Ninae]

Oh, my fucking God.
Why did I not think I was going to he hungover and drink some fucking water?
Shit. I want to die.

I'm still amazed how much people can neglect this. When I was younger and occasionally used to drink I would have as a rule to drink at least one pint of water for every drink I had before I went to bed and more when I woke up. Fresh fruit juice is even better (it's purer and Vitamin C also helps).

The official line always used to be there is nothing you can do to for a hangover apart from wait and maybe take some paracetamols when that is completely untrue and very ignorant (the low level of offical health advice scares me). The problems stem from dehydration and poisoning and your body is screaming out for water, anti-oxidants, and some good nutrients to help it recover. Sleeping partly sitting up or with your head raised also helps as it keeps the blood away from the brain where it does most damage.

But when the damage is already done all you can do is rehydrate and nourish yourself and the more the better. Freshly made juice must be the best you can have in that state, and fresh lemon juice with boiled water and honey, etc. You will also crave salt so try making a sandwich with fresh vegetables or some kind of raw salad like ruccola leaves, grinded cheese, corn, tomato, spring onion, mayonnaise and salt and pepper. The cleansing enzymes in raw vegetables also help a lot.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah drinking one glass of water for each drink is perfect. What I usually do is drink 2 glasses of water before I go to bed, otherwise I have to pee too much. But it works, I never really get hangovers.

 

[ForEverAfter]

It baffles me, too, how I can keep getting alcohol wrong. I have an alcohol problem, but - most of time - I'm in denial about it. Slowly, I'm growing accustomed to the idea that I cannot drink. The funny thing is, I don't even like alcohol... I just struggle to accept that I cannot control it... When I look at other people and see them drinking responsibly, I think there's something wrong with me. So, to prove to myself that there isn't, I drink and (defying past experiences) I expect that there will be a different result this time. And then, once I prove it to myself, I can stop... But, I know that's not the case. If I prove it to myself, I will continue to drink for the rest of my life... I don't drink most days, now. I bought a bottle of tequila, because I was quitting weed. That's how I justified it, anyway. That night I had 6 shots and went to bed. The next day I thought "Finally, I've proved that I don't have a problem with alcohol; I was just going through a phase"... And I somehow managed to convince myself that I was over it, once and for all.

I believe I didn't drink water when I was drunk to sabotage myself and prove that alcohol is a problem... It only is a problem, I think, because I don't like it. So, when it isn't a problem, I make it a problem... This, I suspect, is one of the main reasons that people have unresolved issues with various substances. It's a weird psyche circle that I'm not particularly fond of. But, at least it's shrinking.

 

[Xorkoth]

That's pretty insightful. I don't have a problem with alcohol, I mean I do drink about the maximum level I feel comfortable with but it doesn't compulse me, I just hang out with friends a lot and there is usually drinking involved and I think it looks fun so I go for it. I drink 3-4 nights a week generally, and when I drink I have at least a few beers, and I get drunk often too. My tolerance has grown pretty high over the years so I can knock off 12 beers in a night, over the course of say 7 hours. It's kind of a lot but I never lose control. I also never get hangovers.

I did have a really bad problem with opiates though and that train of thought you described would come into play sometimes. I had a lot of mental games I'd play with myself and in retrospect they were all cleverly designed by my addict brain to justify "one more use".