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Opioids Do i NEED Suboxone??

V

vikenRedbull

Bluelighter
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
85
Location
Southern Cali
im sure you may have seen other posts from me and i love all the comments from this site.

I have been taking vicodin/norcos for about 10 months, i am taking about 60mg total of hydro a day, (usually 1-2 in the morning, 2 midday and 2 at 5-6pm) however i can survive on 1-(10/325 (which is what i take)) a day. but as an addict i chase the high and its hard to taper. but everyday lately all i want is to be clean again.

im wondering of any of you can recommend or tell me on how i can expect to use suboxone for a SHORT term as i know im not that deep...yet. i know the half life is like 3 days and i believe i can get thru and be done with them relatively quick.. i know they are very tempting as well to get stuck on and have MAJOR w/ds from those who are on subs for a long time.

also what are benzos? any personal exp. there?

all info is appreciated.

thanks!!
 
I've been doing junk since 1976, strung-out since around 1991, and bupe changed my life. I would tell anyone truly strung-out to get on bupe - immediately!
That said, you are far too early into it to start on that path. By the time you're ready to do your first dose of bupe, you'd already be halfway clean. Remember, bupe is an agonist/antagonist. If you take it before most of the dope is out of your system, you'll precipitate worse withdrawls. In other words, you'll have to get sick to begin bupe, anyway. Might as well stick it out another day or two, and you'll be clean. You're really only looking at a couple really bad days.
Benzos are tranquilizers - Valium, Klonopin, etc... That would be a nice thing to have while you withdraw. They can make things easier, maybe allow you to sleep more. They are not very safe to mix with opiates, though.
If you have some benzos, and can block off a few days so you don't have to leave the house, you're all set. Just resign yourself to a couple/few days of misery. The bottom line is, unless you plan on being a lifer, all you can do is postpone the inevitable. And the sooner you do it, the easier it'll be. If I could kick methadone cold - I was sick for a month - you can kick a ten month hydro habit. Remember, the shorter-acting the opiate is, the quicker withdrawls are over. Methadone and bupe are long-acting.
Once you do get clean for awhile, never use more than a couple days in a row, or you'll be sick all over again.
 
I think whether or not it will work for you really depends on how motivated you are to get clean. If you are not ready to stop using, that bupe isn't going to magically make you ready. If you feel like you are ready and going through withdrawals are the only thing holding you back, then bupe can be helpful when taken for a short time and gradually tapered off in making the withdrawals a little more bearable and giving you a bit of time off dope before you quit completely. Don't underestimate the likelihood of still wanting to use while you are on bupe or being on bupe for longer than you intend though. In some ways, being on bupe for a longer time can be good because it gives you more time to work on your mental addiction, the reasons you use in the first place, and making changes in your life. But if you do stay on it for a long time the withdrawals will be much harder when you stop. Even with a taper many people still get awful withdrawals and PAWS. But for some, those withdrawals can be easier to bear mentally without immediately turning back to their drug of choice if they've had a long time clean from all other opioids and have worked on their mental health.

Personally if you are truly ready, I would look into just trying to kick with non-opioid meds to help with the pain of withdrawals. If you are not able to taper your hydro then I'm not sure how ready you are. But you could try a medicated detox if you are having no luck with tapering. I would only really recommend buprenorphine or methadone to someone who has tried every other method of quitting.
 
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I think that using loperamide [brand names: Imodium; Kaopectate II] for a few days after your last dose of hydrocodone would work just fine for you. I've used it for quick tapers and had very little discomfort, and my tolerance is higher than yours. You can add some other OTC medications such as DXM (dextromethorphan), ibuprofen, and/or an antihistamine, and that will make it even easier on you.

If you can get by on 10mg of hydrocodone then there is no need to use suboxone to get off of it. 0.25mg of suboxone is about 1.5x as potent as 10mg of hydrocodone, so the doses needed to taper with suboxone would be too miniscule to accurately gauge it for a taper.
 
Frankly, your addiction is small in size, and has not been a part of your life for a terribly long period, and so I would recommend not going near Suboxone/Subutex. If you usually take 60 mg hydrocodone daily, but can get by with 10 mg once daily, I really don't see how Suboxone/Subutex would help you get off, and I think it could just complicate the process, and make it much harder for you in the long run. As for doing a taper on the hydrocodone, I don't really see that as necessary, but you could if you wanted to. Often, though, going CT with opiates is best so that the wd's are not prolonged, and you don't go through them for nothing just to fall back into a full 60 mg/day habit. I would just go CT off the hydrocodone. Hydrocodone has a fairly short half-life compared to other opiates, so the acute wd's won't last that long, and the dose is rather low, so I don't think they will be terribly severe. Of course, they will be quite unpleasant, it could be worse. I would advise you just stop the hydrocodone and use "comfort meds" to ease the wd's, which I really don't think will be all that terrible compared to other cases of opiate wd's.

If you do stop CT, which I am advising, I would look into getting a few drugs to ease the wd's. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a common OTC anti-histamine which can help with anxiety and sleep as well as nausea. NSAID's like ibuprofen or naproxen, which are OTC, too, can help with some of the body aches, just to take the edge off. Imodium (loperamide) is another really good comfort med which is OTC. Loperamide is a true opioid, however it does not cross the blood brain barrier, and so it exerts its effects on the opioid receptors but not the ones in the brain. Loperamide makes the whole of wd's easier, and certainly helps with diarreah, but also with other physical symptoms. A great drug for opiate wd's is Catapres (clonidine), which is only rx, but can be very helpful in managing the sweats/chills, and the anxiety and insomnia as well as the restlessness. You asked about benzos. Benzos include drugs like Xanax, Klonopin, Valium, and Ativan. They are GABAergic sedative-hypnotics frequently prescribed for anxiety and panic disorders, as well as insomnia, epilepsy, and other indications. They can be very helpful, too, in opiate wd's. They should help with general comfort by reducing anxiety and calming you down, making sleep easier, reducing muscle tension, and the like. They help relax you, really, and are very good at it when used properly. Using benzos in opiate wd's is helpful, but if you have no experience with them I would advise to be careful not to become addicted, and only use them for the acute wd's, which shouldn't last much longer than a few days. I wish you the best.
 
Hi i hope i can help a bit ,now i started back on methodone an wednesday i spoke with the doc about suboxen he said that you must be totally clean for 72 hours of opiates and methodone the reason is that suboxen totally blocks the reciptors and will put you into instant withdrawl some thing like the effect of narcon which i think is use for overdose .I wanna try suboxe to but here in canada it is not covered unless you meet the requirements ,The next part of your question about benzos i believe that they are sedatives ,eg. valium clonosapam ciraxe lorazapam sorry about the spelling I hope this helps you .
 
inkpervious said:
Hi i hope i can help a bit ,now i started back on methodone an wednesday i spoke with the doc about suboxen he said that you must be totally clean for 72 hours of opiates and methodone the reason is that suboxen totally blocks the reciptors and will put you into instant withdrawl some thing like the effect of narcon which i think is use for overdose .I wanna try suboxe to but here in canada it is not covered unless you meet the requirements ,The next part of your question about benzos i believe that they are sedatives ,eg. valium clonosapam ciraxe lorazapam sorry about the spelling I hope this helps you .
Click to expand...
Suboxone is not covered in Canada unless you are allergic to methadone. The reason you should not have any opioids in your system for at lest 72 hrs (some doctors recommend even longer for methadone or slow metabolizers) is because buprenorphine partly blocks your opioid receptors which would basically rip any other opioids off the receptors, sending you into precipitated withdrawals.


I agree with Alex000 and Tommyboy, that Suboxone is not a necessary or ideal choice for the OP, vikenRedbull.
 
ok ok great this all helps, i mean from time to time when im dry and dont have any i did take a lot of lope and after a couple hours to kick in with the help of some penetrators i felt fine. i guess i was just curious that if i go into w/d that are too bad, i could just take half of a sub and get thru the night or w/e but would it just prolong it? ill see what i can do and as easy as it is to buy opiates on the streets here, i just dont like being a slave. and it really is crazy how addicting they are, wow. anybody think i can knock it out on a weekend? or would it be about a week before im feeling good, i mean i am active and i wouldnt have a problem going on walks jogs etc to get myself back healthy.. but this is of course being said just a couple hours after my last dose lol.. thanks, i love this site, and errbody hure.
 
Well if you list en to doctors...THAN YES YOU NEED ALL THE SUBOXONE WE CAN GIVE YOU! ALSO DID YOU HAPPEN TO BRING MONEY FOR THE FIRST OFFICE VISIT? :D

No. You don't need it. At MOST take it for 2 days. Your habbit is pretty small. If I was blessed to be in your shoes with such a small addiction I would...

Take 1mg of sub first day
.75 2nd
.50 3rd
.25 fourth
.12.5 fifth
be done feeling good enough to fuck a cheerleader squad and have a pint of beer at the winchester pub, waiting for all this to blow oever by the sixth (shaun of the dead refference. lmao)

Actually scratch that. Start at .50 the first day and follow accordingly. Suboxone and MMT, but SPECIFCLY suboxone is SO over written by doctors trying to get paid even MORE than the 120,000 a year that most begin with. It's actually shameful. They sleep at night by saying "well atleast he's not socring dope." and for a small minority of paitents...there right. But most there paitents like you would go from a lesser evil to a greater evil. The whoping 6 hour course they take to be lcisenced (swear to god its only 6 hours) makes them beleive they know everything. LEt me tell you...my suboxone doctor..is dumber than a bag of dog shit.

He's ALWAYS asking me questions. One day he had another paitent in there and called me in to ask me "would suboxone show up as heroin after 4 days on a drug test". I shit you not. I told him the truth and the paitent had a hissy fit and left.
 
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Swimmingdancer said:
Suboxone is not covered in Canada unless you are allergic to methadone.
Click to expand...

I actually managed to get it covered by the Ontario Drug Benefit Exceptional Access Program by having my addictions doc fill out a Section 8 form. I've never been on methadone, my doc just put that I'm very stable and making excellent progress on Suboxone and it got covered. I don't pay a penny for my subs until the start of each of the Benefit's quarter, even then, I just pay for a portion of one week's supply. I think that I may have got lucky with this one. In hindsight, I wish I had gone on methadone instead because the side effects from bupe are pretty heavy, especially the headaches.

80mg, you are spot on with how ridiculous the methadone/Suboxone licensing course is. Here in Canada, it's the exact same thing: a 6 hour course. But if your doc is that retarded, is there any way you can get another one? Incompetent doctors are always dangerous to the patient sooner or later.
 
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Viken, I posted in one of your previous threads...I took approximately the same dosage you took for about 20 months or so. I felt acute withdrawals for about 3-4 days, but I really didn't take anything to combat the W/D's except vitamins, water, OTC cough syrup, Advil PM, etc...I went cold turkey by the way. I'm on day 9 of being clean, and I feel much, much better. Still dealing with some fatigue, but I'm adhering to a strict exercise program and it keeps me motivated to a point. I'm still dealing with some PAWS issues as well...there's a stupid little voice in my head that whispers I won't enjoy things without the drugs, and I won't be as happy, but I know that's just temporary. My brain/body will learn how to live again without putting this crap in my body.
 
Glad to see that everything's going so swell RangersFan :D ! You're definitely through the worst of it and appear to be doing great! One suggestion, even though it is still early in your recovery and you're occasionally getting that "I won't enjoy things without drugs" thinking, you may want to consider a support group like NA. If you go this route, make sure that you choose your group carefully as Narcotics Anonymous can quickly become Narcotics Available. Still, I'm glad that you're doing so well!
 
i feel i can do a rapid detox with the subs with just one pill, i read it on the internet, so its probably true:)

can you please let me know how to use a single sub pill for RAPID detox please

i currently am taking about 6 norcos a day (10/325 (hydro)) for about 10 months. i can survive off of 2 pills a day, one in AM and one in PM. but you know how hard it is not to take more when you have them.
however i wish to stop.

can you share with me the dose to use a sub pill for someone with a case such as mine. Thanks A TON!
 
vikenRedbull said:
i feel i can do a rapid detox with the subs with just one pill, i read it on the internet, so its probably true:)

can you please let me know how to use a single sub pill for RAPID detox please

i currently am taking about 6 norcos a day (10/325 (hydro)) for about 10 months. i can survive off of 2 pills a day, one in AM and one in PM. but you know how hard it is not to take more when you have them.
however i wish to stop.

can you share with me the dose to use a sub pill for someone with a case such as mine. Thanks A TON!
Click to expand...

The doses of suboxone that you would need are too small to even bother with really and too small to accurately dose, which is why everybody is telling you not to take the suboxone. Why are you so content on taking the suboxone if most people are telling you it's a bad idea? Taking loperamide for a few days would probably help more than suboxone in your case, so I recommend getting that to use for 3-4 days, at doses no higher than 10mg.

What do you mean by a rapid detox? Most professional opiate detoxes are about 5 days, using suboxone or methadone for about 4 of those days. If you are talking about doing something like that at home, then 1 pill is more than enough, and I still recommend against using suboxone. If you do though, here are some dosage guidelines to think about.

Suboxone is very potent, and a lot of people get sick from taking it if they don't have a high tolerance. Also, you have to wait until you are in withdrawal before taking the suboxone, and the general amount of time to wait is 24 hours after the last opiate you took. 0.25mg suboxone is equal to at least 10mg of hydrocodone, and some charts say up to 17mg. Since the way a detox works is by taking lower amounts of the drug over a few days, it's going to be hard to do this with the suboxone since your starting dose will already be tiny, making it almost impossible to dose.

Start out with 0.25mg on day 1. It can take a few hours to kick feel the full effects, so keep that in mind. If you don't get enough relief from 0.25mg after a full hour or so, then add another 0.25mg. That should be more than enough. You can take 0.25mg again on day 2, and then half that (so 0.125mg) on day 3 and 4, then stop. Overall it will look like this;

Day 1- 0.25mg (if after an hour it's not enough then take another 0.25mg)
Day 2- 0.25mg
Day 3- 0.125mg
Day 4- either stop or take 0.125mg for the last time
Day 5- nothing
Day 6- nothing
Day 7- feel the same withdrawals (maybe a little more mild) than you would have if you had just stopped cold turkey
 
thanks Tommy boy as this is the only w/d i would experience they are the worst in my life, ya know what i mean? to others on much more of a deeper use, i realize my w/d are nothing compared but to me its more lol
 
You are only going to slow your detox down taking suboxone.

The only thing I could imagine you are talking about when you say rapid would be to throw your self into precipitated withdrawals then just ride your detox out without taking anything. I guess that would speed up the process.. get all the opiates off your receptors right away.

Your detox is going to be so quick all you are going to do is start prolonging shit by using bupe. 6 noros a day for 10 months is nothing in terms of dependency. I bet 5 days youll be nearly done with just some nominal paws hangin around.

I just have a feeling you are going to take the bupe and actually get high off it being that your tolerance is so low, and it's just goign to be counter productive. You'll be back here ina few months saying hey how bad will my detox be from x amount of bupe for the past fwe months lol.

If you want to get off drugs, stop taking them. You can realistically go cold turkey not have to worry about anything besides some cold sweats, rls, loss of appetite. Thats like you were sniffing a $4 bag of NJ dope daily (actually more like 1/2 of one). You are in a great position to detox. Just do it, get it over with. Make sure you never have to detox again, becuase it only gets worse. If you think it's bad now, things only get worse from here if you continue using.
 
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