Tryptamines DMT released upon death?

[Qnick]

The only way these crazy theories about DMT being involved with dreaming/death/the pineal gland make sense is if your entire knowledge of DMT is through Rick Straussman and T. McKenna.

It makes about as much sense as insisting Santa Clause is real because you get presents every year.
The tenuous similarity between a DMT-state and dreaming isn't proof, it's entirely subjective, and an opinion not shared by all. The NDE similarity can be explained as the psychological processing of an intense and overwhelming experience, though I don't have any experience with a NDE.

And I'm tired of all these people with no DMT experience just reciting factless speculation they've read in a book or internet forum.

It's OK to be wrong, but a firm conviction in things that lack any proof and a willingness to argue over it just make you look foolish. If you truely want to argue, you need to do it with the evidence available, and you can't just discount whatever you feel like based on some intuition you had while tripping on DMT.


In the end this will be settled in the future, but for now there is no evidence for DMT being involved in dreaming or sleep or being formed in the pineal gland, and a decent amount of evidence that would indicate these presumptions are false.


Sorry for the rant, I just get tired of all the bullshit info out there about endogenous DMT. Its to the point where I don't like bringing up DMT due to the inevitable next 30 minutes spent trying to tell whomever I'm speaking to T. McKenna had no factual basis for his assumptions, just a theory that has yet to be proven true despite a large amount of testing.

 

[Mac98]

Same here, and we are not the only ones. My best friend whom I've been getting DMT from said even the taste was extremley familiar to him the first time he smoked it.

I'm currently working up the courage to break through again. I've smoked about a gram and a half over the past 6 days, I've broken through 3 times. They were all great, except the last one, where I went on some reptile jawn. I've experienced some fucking insane shit, especially with mushrooms, but that trip scared me half to death. I just couldn't get out of that negative, psychotic head space until it wore off. Thus, the working up of courage. Lol.

I'm not sure what a Reptile Jawn is... but I'd like to hear about it.

The only way these crazy theories about DMT being involved with dreaming/death/the pineal gland make sense is if your entire knowledge of DMT is through Rick Straussman and T. McKenna.

It makes about as much sense as insisting Santa Clause is real because you get presents every year.
The tenuous similarity between a DMT-state and dreaming isn't proof, it's entirely subjective, and an opinion not shared by all. The NDE similarity can be explained as the psychological processing of an intense and overwhelming experience, though I don't have any experience with a NDE.

And I'm tired of all these people with no DMT experience just reciting factless speculation they've read in a book or internet forum.

It's OK to be wrong, but a firm conviction in things that lack any proof and a willingness to argue over it just make you look foolish. If you truely want to argue, you need to do it with the evidence available, and you can't just discount whatever you feel like based on some intuition you had while tripping on DMT.


In the end this will be settled in the future, but for now there is no evidence for DMT being involved in dreaming or sleep or being formed in the pineal gland, and a decent amount of evidence that would indicate these presumptions are false.


Sorry for the rant, I just get tired of all the bullshit info out there about endogenous DMT. Its to the point where I don't like bringing up DMT due to the inevitable next 30 minutes spent trying to tell whomever I'm speaking to T. McKenna had no factual basis for his assumptions, just a theory that has yet to be proven true despite a large amount of testing.

I think it's wrong to believe everything that's been said about DMT... especially since the substance is still so mysterious, but at the same time, it's mysteriousness means it's wrong to flat out deny everything that's been said about DMT. The fact of the matter is that we don't know. They're all just theories, but theories are where we need to start if we want to find out the truth about DMT. I think it's ok for people to speculate and theorize over what DMT is, where it comes from and why we have it.

IMO, DMT is the most sacred of drugs because 99.9% of people will agree that DMT trips you the FUCK out...

 

[SKL]

DMT trips you the FUCK out

Thats about the size of it. No need for metaphysical extravagancies and far out theorizing about space travel, elves, and pineal glands. Kthx.

 

[adrian89987]

but but it's so trippy and I talked aliens on it 8)

 

[triphead34]

yeh ive had loads of breakthroughs with "communication" in it some which related to my everyday life, some people take it way too seriously, it is still a drug its most likely your innermost thoughts that you dont consciously realise being let out, tho it is amazing and can really challenge your thoughts and beleifs lol i really cant see any connection with dmt and dreaming tho they do feel completely different as already pointed out, also rick strassman was just a researcher who watched other people take dmt and then asked them questions about it and recorded their exeriences, he never mentions himself taking it or any other psychedelic so when you think of that aswell, all these theories are originating from someone who's never taken it (or any other psychedelic by the sounds of things) but his book does have some interesting points in it and is defo worth reading

 

[Mac98]

Thats about the size of it. No need for metaphysical extravagancies and far out theorizing about space travel, elves, and pineal glands. Kthx.

That would be staying closed and unreceptive to infinite possibilities. You don't know what DMT is any more than the next guy, so it's wrong to say what it isn't or what it is. We don't know. No one does. Let's leave it at that.

yeh ive had loads of breakthroughs with "communication" in it some which related to my everyday life, some people take it way too seriously, it is still a drug its most likely your innermost thoughts that you dont consciously realise being let out, tho it is amazing and can really challenge your thoughts and beleifs lol i really cant see any connection with dmt and dreaming tho they do feel completely different as already pointed out, also rick strassman was just a researcher who watched other people take dmt and then asked them questions about it and recorded their exeriences, he never mentions himself taking it or any other psychedelic so when you think of that aswell, all these theories are originating from someone who's never taken it (or any other psychedelic by the sounds of things) but his book does have some interesting points in it and is defo worth reading

Don't quote me on this, but I think Rick Strassman HAS done DMT before... but I don't know this as fact or for sure, so take it with a grain of salt. I just recall him talking about it before... and yes, his book is really worth the read.

 

[adrian89987]

I feel like we have a pretty good idea of what DMT is.

 

[SKL]

Yes indeed, it's a powerful psychedelic 5ht2 agonist that apparently has the capacity to produce some far out effects. As to the rest, Occam's razor, lol. I really tire of all of the woo woo mystical stuff. The science (inclusive of pharmacology, psychology, sociology, ethnobotany, etc.) is so much more interesting.

 

[tomhims5441]

so far in my dmt experiences, iv accomplished and learned nothing.
idk man, even if it is released wen u die, so wat?
wat does it all mean bazzel?

they also say the pineal gland is a portal LOL.

its jus another drug. try gettin some adrenalin and smokin it in a bowl. . .

c wat im gettin at?

 

[JahRed24x]

I had a video on this subject with a scientist and everything, but for some reason i lost it....
If i find it ill upload it and post a link.

Edit:Here you go, very interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JsioLI9UmE

YO YO YO!! Your video was pulled down off youtube... what was it and what did it say??

I was recently looking threw my old threads and saw this one had more responses then I had initially thought... Anyone else have anything new to say on this subject?? Lets hear it/ see it.

Also I wanted to repost one of my other posts as I see most of you haven't even read it...

Im not saying this is true, it is just a theory. But I am talking about someone that dies, for lack of a better term, slowly.. Of course if you are vaporized by a bomb, the theory wouldn't hold much weight but we got to remember guys, we still don't totally understand the brain. In fact in the grand scheme of things we probably understand less then 1% of how it actually works..ya know... I just started to think about this after all these stories I hear about the DMT experience and how its so intense. . . Who here has actually experienced DMT? and what differences are there in the experience b/w smoked DMT and oral DMT?

w0rd

 

[TheAppleCore]

I don't think DMT is released upon death, BUT I did have an experience that seemed to closely resemble what dying while tripping on DMT might be like.

One time I was sitting up in bed at night, slowly smoking a huge bowl of DMT, having a quite a grand old time. However, that ended rather promptly, upon my Dad busting my bedroom door open. It was pitch black in my room, so maybe he just thought I was asleep? He shut the door, and I never heard another word about it.

Regardless -- needless to say, I started having a panic attack, and was quite convinced that I was going to die.

For those of you who have never had the experience, it is a MASSIVE relief to find out that you're totally fine, after going through what seemed like certain death.


It appeared to me, at the time, that my body was rapidly deteriorating, and that at a certain point I was juuust on the brink of death, just teetering over the edge of the abyss, when suddenly the "elves"/entities/creatures responsible for maintaining my existence rushed to the rescue, and started putting the pieces of TheAppleCore back together, until they'd put the finishing touches on, and the cherry on top, and WHAMMO I was good as new!! *Whew!*


Of course I now know that I was never in any danger at all. I see that I had what they call a "panic attack". A very common symptom of a panic attack is the notion that one is facing certain death.

 

[Big)Sky]

This last weekend i did this Tough Mudder event on my local ski resort. It was a 10 mile marine based obsticle course, where i had to jump into water that was 35 degreese.

Long story short, towards the end of the 8th mile i was blue in the face from hypothermia and absoutly exhausted. When i collapased on the ground, i was hallucinating so hard. Had no idea what i was, where i was, and what i was doing. It reminded me of a DMT experience.

I have smoked dmt 5 or 6 times so im very familiar with the feeling of dmt. This is very intriguing to be because i was very close to being at the brink of my existence.

Possible release of DMT? Maybe? Your call.

 

[triphead34]

I think its possible,from what i remember strassman said that it wasn't just released when you die, its when your body is going through great physical/mental stress such as death or nde or any other form of strong stress eg your event, i personally have never experienced dmt release without smoking any but iv done it probs 30-40 times maybe more and it does have a strong mystical feeling about it that ive never felt off anything else, who knows if its all that strassman says but its definately not just any other old psychedelic, i also think its strange the way your body breaks it down so quickly, requiring a maoi for it to be active orally etc ive heard this is because its already being broken down constantly in your body, its defo in a league of its own whatever way you look at it, its also the main building block for a lot of other tryptamines, psilocin(4-HO-DMT) and psilocybin (4-PO-DMT) plus all the reseach chems that stem from it

 

[walkietalkie]

I'm not sure what a Reptile Jawn is... but I'd like to hear about it.

Sorry, sometimes I forget that not everyone uses that word.
Jawn is a word used in the Philadelphia area, it can mean anything, it's typically used to avoid having to explain something which in this case was a bad idea.
What I meant, is that I had an experience with some sort of reptilian entity upon break through. There were patterns and shapes, made out of snakeskin and reptilian eyes.
The entity itself was sort of, telepathically communicating something to me, and I felt like my consciousness was being absorbed by it... I don't know if that makes any sense, its the best I can come up with at the moment.
That experience however was far outshined by the two I had early Monday morning around 02:00, I'm short on time so I'll just copy and paste a bit of what happened from another conversation I was having elsewhere online:

So I've smoked 4 grams in the past 2 weeks, and turned a bunch of people on with 1 gram. I still have plenty left but am taking a break for a few days.
I finally met the elves on Monday morning around 2:00AM.

It's begun to reveal a very definite pattern through stages now that I am becoming familiar with. I planned to work with this drug and get to know it. I still find it a bit daunting sometimes when I am about to take it in, but overall its been a fairly gentle teacher. I've only had 3 experiences that I would consider uncomfortable. I am very experienced with high levels of Psilocybin so nothing has put me in any bad position. It's suprised me and at times can be a bit overwhelming, but that is only in the sense that the visions either change to rapidly and leave me dumbfounded, or I smoke more than I intended to and get caught with that initial thought of "oops" and can't shake it for the duration of the lesson.

My experiences with it in break through doses were mostly out of body, dying, geometric sort up until this weekend, when they became more like mushroom peaks with very detailed scenarios in enviornments that resemble the paintings of Mati Klarwein, leading through tunnels or intensine-like pulsing tubes, into underground fairy dance world. They absolutely transform, too quickly to catch a real glimpse. I remember the first time I saw them, I was looking at a woman inside a cabin with a mountain view through a window behind her, and I tried to take a close look at her face but it was distorted in the center, I couldnt make out her eyes, nose, or mouth because it was covered by some kind of... metalic, ice shard stabbing machine thing lol. As I thought to myself "wtf yo, why can I not see her face?" the entire scene (the cabin, the window, the mountain) collapsed in on itself and the womans face shattered and the pieces dropped down melting and reformed back upward into the little elves, who then proceeded to shape shift and morph themselves into any countless number of symbolic impressions (samuari masks, dragons, smiling cartoon elf figures, into teeth baring nightmare monsters etc).

Another interesting point to touch on is that while this was all going on, I started to have memories of the absolute worst things I've done in my past, and the memories began to replay like I was watching a movie of my life somewhere off to the right, and the elves sort of "pushed" the moving images of my memory out of my peripheral vision and (telepathically?) said to me "No! Look at us! Don't think about those things, it's ok you won't be punished, it's over!" and they applauded me when I turned my attention back to them.

Also, the high pitched tone was changing from a steady drone to an oscillating pulse in and out, in and out, over and over again, in synch with the places "heart beat" as I thought and the visions would slow down / speed up accordingly.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

very nice experience write up....felt like i was there

and that artist...wtf! i love it, never heard of them before...
the way in which they blend very life-like images with cartoon with hard geometry......very dali-esque and he's my favorite. that seamless blending of abstract with the real, and the way 2 pictures can meet up to eachother creates that optical illusion experience...i love it!

 

[bluetriangle]

I had a cardiac arrest in icu due to pneumonia ...but I saw a blue flashing triangle in my minds eye then I died for 4 minutes .i spent 2mounths in a coma but this was the first thing a spoke about after coming out of a induced coma .

 

[koalabear135]

yeah.. ur brain mimics the chemical release that is initiated by dmt, but any of the garbage you read about anything being sacred or actually magical is complete nonsense. people like to say if u use dmt, you wont get this dump, thats just nonsense. your brain will go into a shut down mode, during this you will hallucinate and have many of the effects of a heavy psychedelic. thats just death.

 

[Tranced]

Anybody who has read the spirit molecule will know that Rick Strassman states numerous times that the DMT/death theory is just a theory, and with very little, if anything, to support it. He really does explicitly state that.

That's not to say it isn't true. I fully believe in the spiritual/infinite power of life/DMT. I'm just not sure DMT is the passenger, or is even required once your connection to this universe with these rules are suddenly severed.

 

[terarc]

I do feel like psychedelics (and any other kind of practice that leads to a similar state) may have something incredible to teach us about the nature of consciousness and the human mind (and by extension perhaps even what we believe to be physical reality?) ... However after much reflection on it and many psychedelic experiences, positive/negative, spiritual/meaningless, albeit none with DMT yet, I think whatever this lesson is, it's so unbearably profound and complex that we literally have no chance of understanding it perhaps even in the lifetime of our entire species, and attempting to will just make you go fucking crazy and end up deluding yourself (cough cough, religion). I'm talking about 'the meaning of life' essentially. I think we'll make the fastest advancement toward this 'enlightenment' simply by accepting and bathing in the beauty that is the completely bewildering, miraculous and mysterious nature of existence, and keeping an open mind about everything, and even coming up with as many new ideas as possible and discussing them, but without subscribing to any particular belief or idea until we can prove it scientifically.

That includes the possibility that this entire notion that life has meaning could be nothing more than a kind of brain trickery or 'short circuit' occuring by trying to understand our own entire existence, FROM the viewpoint of our own mind, when we'd require a higher intelligence than our own to completely understand our own intelligence, making it unobtainable, and also kind of irrelevant to the idea of understanding the universe as it'd be nothing more than a biological fuck up of a conscious being trying to know more than its brain has capacity to know and ascribing the label 'meaning of life' to the concept of attaining this knowledge.

Sorry went on a bit of a metaphysical rant there, but basically my original comment was gonna be that the notion of DMT being released at death is really interesting, but I don't think we should either say it is true, or call the people that think it's true 'wrong', until we find some real evidence one way or the other.

 

[cj187]

bump