• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

DMT in the pineal gland

stormyweathers

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
200
Location
USA
i have heard over and over that DMT is manufactured in the pineal gland and causes dreams, NDEs, and OBEs

and furthermore, i have heard that sufficient stress can dump a payload of DMT into the brain

however, i have yet to see any actual documentation of this

can anybody point me in the right direction?

or is this completely ridiculous?
 
Read 'DMT The Spirit Molecule' within which Rick Strassmen hypothesises the possibility of connections between the endogenous levels of DMT and the subjective experiences of alien abduction etc,, the involvement of the Pineal gland in its production, and the spiritual dimension. He is a psychologist by trade although i'm sure he has a good grounding in neurobiology and he was expressng proposals for future research, rather than the folklore facts that are frequently quoted on the net. His speculation were kind of rational in that the raw data (Subjective reports of his test subjects) strongly hint at things which are well frowned upon in the scientific community as a whole. He takes a considerable professional gamble researching in this area.
The neurobiology surrounding the Pineal gland is still unclear, and the DMT connection is likewise. Read Rick Strassmens book though. Its full of excellent accounts of the DMT experience, and the gruelling story of his quest to get the research going is a good read.
Oops I thought this was Psychedelic Drugs forum. I'm outa my league!
He has written a more recent summary of his study in a recent book:
Inner Paths To Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds Through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies
In his opening chapter he summarises the research described in 'The Spirit Molecule' and carefully spells out his view with theories as to the implications of these ideas. It also has great chapters by other authors on Ayahuasca, Mushrooms and DMT. Another must buy for the bookshelf of the head.
In summary, the ideas you quote are unproven avenues for future research.
Check either of those books - they're great. Enjoy your Spice - Peace Pipp
 
Last edited:
^Nice. Hope you had a good time. :)

I'll add another perspective here...and this is not intended to sound confrontational or argumentative.

I wasn't a big fan of Dr. Strassman's book, but I understand the reasons for its widespread appeal...there are few things I enjoy more than speculating about the metaphysical and physical consequences of the psychedelic experience.

In my opinion the book is disappointing for a number of reasons. First of all, Strassman spends nearly half of the book lamenting the state of current research on psychedelics and the barriers to conducting research. While I'll admit that he battled a lot of adversity and ultimately persevered, I think one chapter would have been more than sufficient to sympathize with the guy. What I found most disconcerting, however, was the creeping sense that his brand of pseudoscience is one reason why psychs aren't gaining credibility as legitimate avenues of future research. This may not be true, but his magical pineal gland hypotheses have certainly not helped to bring psychedelic research back from its marginalized state. He proposes that endogenous DMT plays a pivotal role in mental illness, dreaming, alien-abduction, and near-death experiences...all physiologically improbable. These may have been workable hypotheses if proposed half a century ago. Above all, the hypothesis that forced me to seriously question his power of ratiocination is the hypothesis that the soul enters the body at 49 days after conception, which he supports by referencing a parallel between human development of the pineal gland and a statement in the Tibetan Book of the Dead -- Maybe Descartes was right after all and the pineal is the seat of the soul?

I won't argue that everything he claims is wrong, but current evidence indicates that (1) DMT is not solely produced in the pineal, and (2) DMT is not present at relevant concentrations to exert an effect on 5-HT2A receptors. There was a bunch of research on endogenous DMT and its possible role in psychosis in the 60s, which was ultimately fruitless. I admire Dr. Strassman's efforts nonetheless. Hopefully, his research will shed light on the role of endogenous DMT and pave the way for future research with these compounds.

As far as evolutionary history of the pineal gland, there are a few species of lizards that still have a parietal eye (probably the ancestral pineal gland), and it serves a similar function to other pineal glands with its primitive photoreceptor cells. The function appears to be regulation of the sleep/wake cycle as in humans. There are at most a few species of lizard that still have the primitive lens and retina. As evolution progressed, the two primary eyes formed connections with the pineal gland as it took up residence at the base of the forebrain allowing it to lose its photoreceptor functions. So yes, the cells do resemble photoreceptors, and it still regulates cycles, but this is not surprising. MAOI seems to be present there to tightly control the levels of serotonin (it is highly concentrated in the pineal), which allows it to also tightly control melatonin production. Demystified.
 
Last edited:
i agree, Just because the tibetan book of the dead says something, it doesnt mean it's true.
What about all the other books of the dead? do they all say the same thing about the soul?

either way, i dont understand why people idolize the pineal gland so much.
besides circadian rhythms, it reallly doesnt do much AFAIK


do you happen to know where else endogenous DMT is formed?
 
"In this show, we go the full hour with the pioneering DMT researcher Dr. Rick Strassman. Rick discusses the evolution of his studies, the forthcoming Spirit Molecule documentary, manipulating viruses to produce DMT, answers questions from the forum and introduces us to his new book about the prophetic state of mind."

http://radiohuasca.blogspot.com/2010/02/radiohuasca-14.html
 
Last edited:
the problem with all these sources is that they either written of lead by Dr. Strassman. its not that hes not a viable source its just that when you take a look at the papers that he has written on the subject matter not many of then are peer reviewed, or published in a major periodical. i would like to see some written reports of evidence of the release of DMT in the brain written, or peer reviewed by someone other than Strassman, i think we can all agree that the more solid the evidence the better
 
DMT Endogenous Biosynthesis

Dmtbiosynth.gif


Dimethyltryptamine is an indole-alkaloid derived from the shikimate pathway. Its biosynthesis is relatively simple and summarized in the picture to the left. In plants, the tryptophan is produced endogenously where in animals the tryptophan used comes from diet. No matter the source of tryptophan, the biosynthesis begins with the decarboxylation of L-tryptophan (1). Once decarboxylated, tryptamine (2) is dimethylated by S-adenosyl-methionine (SAM) via nucleophilic attack. This reaction is mediated by tryptamine-N-methyltransferase enzyme. This produces the product (3). The mechanism has been proven by radio labelling of SAM with carbon-14. The study found that various mammal tissues contained enzymes capable of performing the above transformation

Source: Wiki

Can't say much more about it, i dtill dont really know ehere this tranformationtakes place and in what ocasions but I highly doubt that endogenous DMT is releaed during episodes of high stress.
It has been shown to be involved in dreaming and experience of stupor.
It would be cool to find a that enhances the activity of SAM-e, SAM-e supplements are sold OTC in the states, to bad you need a freaking prescription in the country i'm from.

Search 'SAM-e' and 'tryptamine-N-mehyltransferase'
 
Last edited:
SAM-e is used as a methyl donor for so many other things, i doubt it would affect DMT production too much.

maybe a flood of tryptophan, SAM-e, an an MAOi.

that would be interesting
 
Ita has also been ptoven that smaller amounts of bufotenint and 5-MeO-DMT are produced endogenously.

Not so surprising considering the structural similiarities.

BTW i guess 5-HTP would work better than tryptophan, i guess.
If there was a way to potetiate Typtamine -N-Methyltranferase it would be kick ass.

Anyway melatonin my itself is known to intensify 'dreaming' (dont know if REM or other phases) but i guessit has a potential role in that.

BTW melatonincan be hydrolized into 5-Meo-tryptamine by hydrolysis, iguessthrough some strong base like conc sodium hydroxide turning into mexamine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methoxytryptamine
A pretty wide 5-HT ligand ligand.

Also look what i found, it seems that melatonin affects 5-HT2a somehow:
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/273/1/304.abstract?ck=nck
 
Last edited:
mexamine.gif


Source: Rhodium archives
Unfortunately I cannot link the whole page becase it's atrticle regrding the synthesis 5-MeO-DMT from melatonin.

Such polymer degradation is usually catalysed by either acid, e.g., concentrated sulfuric acid (H2SO4), or alkali, e.g., sodium hydroxide (NaOH) attack, often increasing with their strength or pH.
Wiki
 
Before you kids go and try this at home in a flower vase, please tell me you're familiar with the equipment necessary for refluxing under an inert gas.
 
Still mexamine couldbe used a a ambiguios supplement even if it is slightly produced inthe brain
Melatonin has affiniti for M1 and M2 only.

Wiki:


5-Methoxytryptamine
(5-MT), also known as mexamine, is a tryptamine derivative closely related to the neurotransmitters serotonin and melatonin. 5-MT has been shown to occur naturally in the body in low levels. It is synthesized from melatonin in the pineal gland.

5-MT acts as a full agonist at the 5-HT1, 5-HT2, 5-HT4, 5-HT6, and 5-HT7 receptors. It has no affinity for the 5-HT3 receptor and it should also be noted that its affinity for the 5-HT1E receptor is very weak in comparison to the other 5-HT1 receptors. Its affinity for the 5-HT5A receptor is unknown.

Trippy
 
Top