N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
dissociatives of the future
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Hey... you gotta admit that Detol rocks though
fastandbulbous said:
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I agree that I would prefer the "recovery" time from dissociatives to be short. If there was something like Ketamine that would last longer but actually work that long instead of just dragging like a hangover (a la PCP), I'd take it fullheartedly!
MattPsy
Bluelighter
N2O's different anyways since it's a noncompeditive NMDA agonist - that is, it binds at a different place.
We want a dissociative that binds in the PCP place instead of the N2O place that lasts for about 15 minutes .
(I expect the different binding positions cause different psychological effects, no? Or is it simply a matter of saturation [as in, N2O tops out at a lower max. level, like a weak partial agonist sorta?] ?)
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
I see what you mean, nuke. I like your style, girl
Matt: I was under the impression that both K and PCP were non-competitive as well? Dizocillipine IS competetive. Amantadine and Memantine are... I forget the term, but I believe they are simple channel-blockers.
Survived Abortion
Bluelighter
N2O doesn't compare to Ketamine or other dissociatives in qualitative effects anyhow.
About the dopaminergic activity the day after - surely this is something to be desired. I find it to be a very effective anti-depressant that can last for a few days.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ Not when all of your muscles, tendons etc are tense for two days afterwards. I prefer it if the dopamine reuptake inhibition is confined to the limbic system - when it starts happening all over the place it's just not nice (I wonder if PCP has a big effect in the substantia nigra because the day after I felt like I had the beginnings of tetanus)
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Thats your opinion.
Survived Abortion said:
I find that Nitrous, besides being capable of producing the transcendental experiences of other dissociatives, also has the trademark "zing" that I recognize in Ketamine, PCP, and DXM.
As for the dopaminergic side... I think what minor effects Ketamine has are fine as they are. I totally agree with F&B that PCP's dopaminergic effects are more like undesireable side-effects.
Perhaps people are confusing these drugs' opioid effects with dopaminergic ones?
nobody is confusing anything, the fact is that you all IMO must be abnormaly sensative to the dopamine stim or sumthing? I've never gotten tense from ANY DA drug, only when adrenaline/NA or many 5ht psyches do i ever get muscle tension, infact if i'm having any issues at all such as achy muscles/back the pcp will alleviate this for the entire time it's in my system. 4 legal reasons havent been smoking it much but I used to smoke not just 4 what i consider the ultimate high but also medicinally, i'd have superb confidence and easy CLEAR/focused flow of thought processes, greater memory and cognition, almost a manic lack of deppression. always felt energized +motivated and always felt physacly comfortable,
but 4 those who would prefer the ketamine type of effect i wonder if adding a chloro position to PCP would produce a somewhat more potent longer lasting ketamine
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ Dunno, MDPV is almost exclusively a dopamine reuptake inhibitor with little effect on noradrenaline reuptake, but it's far from dreamy & sedating. I've always associated serotonin with dreamy, sedated states of mind eg the methylenedioxy compounds with little effect on catecholamine reuptake
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
I'll have a rummage through my hard drive - I'm sure I have an article with them somewhere
nuke
Bluelighter
fastandbulbous said:
Huh, really? I recall it had a 1:3 or so DA:NE reuptake ratio, from some other thread, though I'm looking through the original MDPV thread and can't find much... I would be surprised if it did, because the effects of MDPV are strikingly similar to methylphenidate for me.
Edit: Does it even matter if a compound only inhibits the reuptake of dopamine because dopamine beta-hydroxylase with convert a lot of it to norepinephrine anyway? People with dopamine beta-hydroxylase deficiency (lots of DA and little NE) tend to have very low blood pressure and behave very sedatedly. And, you have morphine with a fair amount of DA releasing capability, but I don't get any stimulation from that (puts me right to bed!)
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Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
^ Aren't we over-simplifying things? I thought the idea of assigning specific states of mind with a single neurotransmitter is outdated. Surely, things are MUCH more complicated than "DA = dreamy, NE = tweaky".
a chloro in any position is going to reduce affinity and overall activity, that's whole point i guess, i personally don't understand it, but for peops that dislike pcp,tiletamine it would be ideal especially seeing as how the synths for pcp analogs are much easier than for ketamine and it's analogs
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Reduce affinity for what?
toxide said:
Ketamine has a chloro group and it is the best drug ever invented yet, IMO at least.
Also, most people would agree that Ketamine is overall much more versatile than PCP for just about everything. I don't see anyone synthing pcp analogues and offering them as pcp analogues, so whoever can do this, certainly can do Ketamine analogues.
ketamine has a chloro group, and has low affinity=dusnt last long
pcp has high affinity very potent and lasts very long
regardless of opions here, i can understand why some people prefer ketamine, i luv k, dont get me wrong here. U misunderstood my postings
take into account that pcp is easier to synth and and more potent than 2-phenyl-ethylamino-cyclohexanone->(the pcp variation of ketamine), reverse this to make a ketamine version of pcp which would have similar effects to Ketamine but easier to make and more potent and longer lasting than ketamine
? I wanna compare it with a few other derivatives...