Dissociatives don't work!!

[dr. dissociative]

On a side note, can I ask. If you lie down in the dark, with no drugs and try to visualise something, do you struggle to visualise imagery?

I find this question rather difficult to answer as of course I have no idea what other peoples "visualisation" abilities are like. But I'd tentatively say yes - I can imagine visual concepts such as faces, objects, places, memories etc. in a way which I assume is normal. However, I cannot will these things into my actual field of vision in a normal state of mind.

Why do you ask?

 

[spacejunk]

I find that "visuals" are quite elusive for me with a lot of drugs - i don't have a great deal of luck with phens I have tried (no signifcant hallucinations from 2cp, 2cb, MAL, various San Pedro adventures - certainly body load and psychedelic headspace; but nothing coming close to LSD or a number of tryptamines - which I am much more at home with anyway).
It could be a tolerance thing. I have really pushed DMT and 4-aco-dmt doses as hard as I could ever wish to.

But dissociative hallucinations (in my experience at least) are very different. Closer to the closed-eye lucid dream-like visuals you get from opiates.
A lot of people seem to say that MXE can be difficult to find the "sweet spot"...personally I find a little 4-aco-dmt with MXE makes for a heavenly, extremely visual experience.
Without psilocetin, I often find MXE's "psychedelic" effects to be (often dramatic) bodily, spacial, time distortions.
Music slows down, so that every note and evey beat labours along slowly, able to be heard with the utmost clarity.
Songs and albums that are extremely familiar may sound utterly foreign.
You may feel your body dwarf the world around you and/or shrink to a tiny speck of dust.
I have felt music travel around my body, as if it is orbiting my (disembodied) mind.
But as for visuals...well, I see dissociatives as dissociatives, and psychedelics as psychedelics.
Sure, dissociatives can be very psychedelic in nature - but I think they are far more interesting and profound if you go into an experience looking to go wherever it takes you...rather than looking for visuals and being disappointed.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[isthisincognito]

but I think they are far more interesting and profound if you go into an experience looking to go wherever it takes you...rather than looking for visuals and being disappointed

This is how I feel about mxe, and pcp derivatives. Ketamine is my only exemption.

Watching the iTunes visualiser on mxe is incredible, or watching a film on 4-meo and enjoying the distortions.

 

[Deleted member 290563]

Dr. dissociative:

have you considered IV mxe? I never was able to hole with other ROAs and know many with the same issues. but IV mxe (even low doses (probably even as low as 30 mg eyeballed) has thrown me into holes so deep I A) thought it was all real B) though i was stuck in another dimension and was never coming back. absolutely amazing experiences, very different to snorting and dissolving into CEVs. difference is watching the visuals behind closed eyes, as opposed to actually being stuck in a visual world as a point of consciousness that seems real and visceral with the IV method.

Be careful with IV mxe, on one instance instead of laying in bed I actually got up and ran around the room destroying shit and yelling having a pcp type freakout and didn't even know i was doing it.

 

[dr. dissociative]

Well... if nothing else, last night was a helluva time. Ended up pushing the drug farther than I have in the past and redosing over nealy 12 hours (still feeling noticeable effects after waking up so probably a terrible idea in terms of harm reduction). No idea what the dosages were either.

I still didn't become fully dissociated or OBE at any point, however. And I still don't think I'm getting the amazing visuals that people claim rival DMT in intensitiy. It definately did become quite visual after a while, but not consistantly and rarely with fully defined colour. They were fairly "computer generated" and abstract in style.

I did try a couple of balloons of nitrous before becoming too wasted to realistically use my small cracker safely (really need to invest in a proper whipped cream dispenser) so I am still unsure whether this combination would be beneficial for my purposes. They were great for one-man-raving in my room like a loonatic though!

Hahahahaha I also did attempt plugging when I came down a bit but I found the proceedure exceptionally difficult and while I did finally find a way to get some MXE into my little syringe, I doubt I even managed to successfully find my own arsehole so ultimately decided not to waste any more of this precious substance on this ROA until I learn how to do it properly and from a more sober state. I think it will be wise for me to take at least a few days break now though, for both the sake of harm reduction and tolerance.

Overall though, I consider the experiment a success and I do believe hat there might be hope for me enjoyingt the higher dose effects of dissociatives, and that I don't have any physiological issue which is blocking them from working fully (although it would appear that I have been graced with a very unfortunate high natural tolerance). I hope as I get to understand the substance better, I will learn how to reach deep OBE states through it. Will keep you all updated with future experiments in this regard, thanks very much for your help bluelight!

 

[isthisincognito]

^ I've had one visual experience on mxe that blows any other experience out of the water, all the others were much like ketamine for me, fun but not life changing. - It's worth noting I have never had a breakthrough with DMT so cannot offer a comparison.

The OOBE's I've had with mxe were always out of the blue, but they've never occurred whilst trying to hole, always when I'm mobile. They've never been scary, but a little surreal.

MY TWO MOST NOTABLE OOBE’S

1. I’ve had a couple of out of body experiences, some can be a little scary.
   My first experience was with methoxetamine back in 2010, I went downstairs to the garden to have a cigarette, and was idly having a conversation with myself (I do this quite a lot, so not too unusual). This was different though, at the time I didn’t realise it was odd, but whilst I was smoking and talking, I was having a conversation with myself, physically looking at myself. I felt myself being pulled into myself the real me, and all of a sudden I “snapped” back into myself, only then did I realise what had happened, followed by about half an hour of “oh my f*****g god! - complete disbelief. This was a pleasant experience, and not uncomfortable in the slightest.
   
2. My second notable experience was with ketamine in the latter half of last year. I was lying on my bed having just holed, staring at the ceiling for a few moments, just waiting for the lingering effects to wear off (I IM Ketamine, so this usually happens pretty fast). Once I felt a bit more myself, I got out of my bed and stood up. On my wall there’s a mirror, I looked over to it so I could see myself, my face stared back at me, blood streaming from my eye sockets. I had no eyes, just black cavities. I quickly awoke to being back laying on my bed, in the same manner you do when awaking from a nightmare, a moment of panic followed by the assuring relief to be in the waking world again.

 

[dr. dissociative]

MY TWO MOST NOTABLE OOBE’S

Wow, that second experience with ketamine sounds incredibly creepy!

I think I briefly alluded to this in my OP (sorry if I missed this fairly vital info out), but I have too also had a couple of brief, dreamlike OBEs (both of which occurred after combining ketamine and mephedrone, and were also rather spontaneous i.e. not at a higher dosage than i was used to). However, I never really considered these experiences to be in line with the deep k/m-hole reports that I have read and are thus not really the experience that I am searching for.

My first involved me sat at my desk where I had been powdering my nose when suddenly my legs merged with the wooden legs of the chair that I was sitting on (it was at this point that I realised I was out of body). This experience involved the most incredible tactile hallucination of feeling my legs as the wooden chair legs... quite extraordinary!

My second experience was a bit more abstract and I have difficulty recalling it in much detail, but it involved myself being a contestant of a surreal gameshow which was happening in a tripped out version of the living room of my parents house (which I began my trip in). The game involved me choosing two possible realities of which to return to, and since I lost the game I was designated to the future which I wanted to avoid (I can't remember what the possible futuress were, so can't comment on whether there was any truth to this game!) The last thing I remember was the couch being pulled towards and sucked into the TV which contained my destiny with me going "noooooooooooo," before I came to in a highly confused dissociated state thinking that I had had some mad party in my parents house while they were away, and I went off exploring the house looking for someone to explain what was going on. All this time, I was completely oblivious to my tripping buddy who had k-holed on my floor surrounded in a pool of his vomit. He later explained to me that this was not at all unpleasant, and had been like "vomiting rainbows".

I suppose this second experience was the closest I have come to achieving the dissociative hole which I have read about, but I have heard of much deeper, spiritual experiences generally occurring in these states. More of a transformative spiritual experience than a trippy day-dream!

 

[isthisincognito]

My first ever experience with MXE in 2010, and probably my only proper 'hole' as it far surpassed the dreamlike visuals (where you've yet to completely succomb).

It started flying over forests feeling the wind against my skin, I was diving in and out of the water, each time I went in I could feel it against my skin, I could smell the water (like at the ocean).

I have a bit of a blank after this, the next thing I recall is being in this infinitely white space (very much like that scene from the matrix) - I was stood there with my dad staring back at me ( He passed away in 2008 ), we began to hug, it was undeniably real - but he slowly started to slip away from me.

That experience catalysed my love for mxe, I spent the next year or so desperately trying to reproduce that experience, but it continues to elude me.

I now feel that I can't chase an experience, going in with expectations or trying to achieve something specific, I always fail. This has translated over into my life now. I have no fixation on the path in front, refraining from expectation to a degree but just going with the flow and enjoying the moment as they unfold.

Ketamine for me is now a sure fire hole, but I've never had anything even remotely as meaningful with ketamine. Sure it's cool, but it lacks the emotion of mxe for me.

I somewhat feel however that to some degree my anxiety might be holding me back. I'm not fully releasing myself to the experience and it becomes a struggle. It's been a while since I last had mxe (August, I want to go back in with a fresh start)

I said a little earlier, I'm hoping to use ketamine to break me into the experience, and then methoxetamine to find some depth. Finding good mxe seems to be a little difficult though, subjectively I find it highly variable from different sources, and even from the same batch, the experiences themselves are hugely variable.

 

[Xorkoth]

I have never had an OOBE really, but I hit the oneness very fully and pretty much more intensely than I ever have before, on MXE, a few weeks ago. Would have been a +4, life-changing experience if I hadn't already experienced oneness on other psychedelics.

 

[dr. dissociative]

I have never had an OOBE really, but I hit the oneness very fully and pretty much more intensely than I ever have before, on MXE, a few weeks ago. Would have been a +4, life-changing experience if I hadn't already experienced oneness on other psychedelics.

What dosage and ROA did you use to achieve this, and have you got any advice on set and setting that one might replicate such an experience? Obviously a dark room and meditation are ideal for this substance... But was there anything else you can think of such as intentions or expectations which might have caused this?

 

[psood0nym]

It wasn't until I had tens of grams of ketamine and used most of it over the course of a summer in addition to DXM that I finally began experiencing the characteristic "hole" effects from dissociatives alone (radical proprioceptive distortions, strong visuals, sensations or visions of flight, etc.). At that time I had already been using dissociatives for years, including IM ketamine up to 250 mg (I weigh 175lbs) -- which just incapacitated me with quite a bit of motion-induced nausea. I think some people need to "learn" to get those effects for whatever reason, be it through a subconscious mechanism, physiological adaption, or otherwise. Of course I don't recommend increasing your use on the off chance that doing so might just happen to work for you. Doing so is far more likely to cause semi-permanent tolerance than anything else. I only mention it because that's what was correlated with the beginning of those effects in me. Prior to that I needed to use ketamine with a powerful tryptamine to get the "hole" effects (IM synthethic psilocin [7-14mg], synthetic DMT [50-70mg], or DPT [50mg]). Those combo experiences also almost definitely played a role in "learning" to "hole" with dissociatives on their own.

 

[dr. dissociative]

It wasn't until I had tens of grams of ketamine and used most of it over the course of a summer in addition to DXM that I finally began experiencing the characteristic "hole" effects from dissociatives alone (radical proprioceptive distortions, strong visuals, sensations or visions of flight, etc.). At that time I had already been using dissociatives for years, including IM ketamine up to 250 mg (I weigh 175lbs) -- which just incapacitated me with quite a bit of motion-induced nausea. I think some people need to "learn" to get those effects for whatever reason, be it through a subconscious mechanism, physiological adaption, or otherwise. Of course I don't recommend increasing your use on the off chance that doing so might just happen to work for you. Doing so is far more likely to cause semi-permanent tolerance than anything else. I only mention it because that's what was correlated with the beginning of those effects in me. Prior to that I needed to use ketamine with a powerful tryptamine to get the "hole" effects (IM synthethic psilocin [7-14mg], synthetic DMT [50-70mg], or DPT [50mg]). Those combo experiences also almost definitely played a role in "learning" to "hole" with dissociatives on their own.

Interesting, thanks for the post. I did get the sensation that as I was becoming more aware of the nuances of the drugs effects (the half-formed CEVs from last night that I mentioned a couple of posts back, for instance, would intensify or shift depending on my focus), the more the effects would open up to me.

Also, in relation to your advice about combining with tryptamines, around a week or so ago I smoked a pretty small (unweighed, but was really just a sprinkle) amount of DMT while on a high dose of MXE (it was 120mg, but lets keep in mind I seem to be naturally tolerant to NMDA antagonists, so I was fairly functional). It produced the most incredible DMT breakthrough I have had, and is what essentially rekindled my recent interest in learning to use these substances to their full advantage. However, the DMT trip only seemed to last as long as one would expect a DMT trip to last, and after it faded my normal MXE experience resumed. I found this somewhat surprising, as in the past I have found smoking small amounts of DMT on serotonergic psychedelics (LSD in my case) to colour the visual effect for the remainder of the trip. Anyway, I do indeed wish to attempt this combination again soon, but with a fuller dose of DMT (I'm talking 15-20mg based on the intensity of my last experience). I was actually contemplating this last night, but was too timid to go through with it due to the ridiculous amount of MXE I had taken, in addition to minor sleep deprivation.