Disease vs. situational addict (please make a poll)

[caseface99]

If any of you have been to rehab you are familiar with the pounding in that you have a disease of addiction, that its genetic, and that you can never touch drugs or alcohol again even once without going strait back into full blow addiction.

I consider this to be more or less bullshit. Sure, there are some people who could claim to have a disease, that truly never can drink or do drugs ever again without becoming addicted. But the thing that is most retarded is that they taught at my rehab that anyone who has become addicted has the disease of addiction. I find this to be extremely ignorant.

Personally, i usually don't have a big issue with drugs. The 2 times i became dependant were with pot and heroin. With pot, i was young and stupid and prided myself on being the biggest stoner and dealer in my town. (which i was, smoking absurd amounts all day, and bringing vastly large amounts of pot for wholesale in to town.) It was more of a cigarette style addiction, not a dependence, but i know for sure that it happened because i wanted to smoke all the time not because i needed to. With Heroin, it was more or less on purpose as well. I was going through a shitty depression and didn't give a shit about anything, but with Heroin of course everything was better. (at first...) So i started using daily, KNEW i would get addicted, but just didn't care. Then eventually it got to shitty, i told my dad, got some help and quit.

Since then, i have used drugs on and off for a couple more years without becoming addicted to anything, and i didn't have to work hard or work against cravings what so ever to stay non dependent. Both times i over indulged were due to situational states of mind i was in, not because i tried the drug and HAD to do it again. Since then i have used heroin a large handful of times, and never once craved the next day. I have smoked pot on and off at will. I have been totally sober for a little over 2 months without the slightest hint of an urge or a craving to get high.

Yet apparently i have a "disease". Also, i only attended a rehab to make my parents happy, and because my dad made a contract (signed by both of us and a witness) stating that if i complete the program he will pay for 4 years of university and or trade school equivalent, as well as my half of an apartment with my girlfriend and help with living expenses. Personally i found this to be too good of a deal to pass up, i actually feel spoiled but hey, im not turning down free shit....

Mods, if you could make this a poll i'd be most appreciative.

My question is have you become a situational addict, and have otherwise never had a problem; do you have a "disease" and can't control yourself; have you been using drugs for at least one year and never had an issue; or do you not know because you haven't been using drugs for very long?

 

[Khadijah]

caseface, I actually have made a thread asking the exact same thing before, so Ima merge this with the one that already exists. Im on my way out the door right now and I aint got a minute to go search for it, so Ima leave it for just right now, but later tonite I will come back and do the appropriate mod'in. Ima come back and answer it too, i disagree completely with that addict for life mentality and think its fuckin bullshit, especially becuz i got plenty of experience that proves it wrong. I used successfully, occasionally (once every few mos) without even having the slightest desire to go back to using fulltime or even wanting to use again the next day, after gettin clean over a year ago. I didnt even HAVE to control it--it controlled itself. there WAS no desire to keep using that i had to keep in check--that type of craving and wantin to do more, etc, wasnt even there to begin with. it was so, so easy not to abuse it or use more than i meant to or go back into addiction, becuz the desire to keep using and the addictive mentality, was completely, totally gone. The addict is just a part of you but it dont mean its there forever. Il post more later when i merge the threads.

 

[lasthurrah19]

I don't think it's a disease. It's a choice, just one that becomes very hard to deal with in time for many people, me included. Was/am I incapable of staying clean, or stopping after 'just one'? No way. But sometimes I say fuck the consequences, I'm gonna be compulsive cause I want to feel better NOW. My automatic and non-automatic responses to stress and strong emotions of any kind, is to want to escape. That is from past experiences where I was not able to handle what was happening in my own life. I'm not blaming childhood, just saying that it's a conditioned response. Later in life I found drugs and realized that changing my mood is easy as fuck with a chemical. I chose an addict lifestyle instead of dealing with my problems - if I never have to be present with my emotions, and being present with them is beyond uncomfortable, why wouldn't I chose an easy escape? Everyone's tolerance to emotional and physical pain is different, and if I had chosen to exercise instead, I'd have just as much urge to go for a run when life is hard. But choosing drugs was easier, and that's what I have accustomed myself to.

Here is the medical definition of disease from dictionary.com:

dis·ease definition
Pronunciation: /diz-ˈēz/
Function: n
: an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions, is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms, and is a response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors : SICKNESS ILLNESS called also morbus compare HEALTH 1,

An addiction is, imo, not an impairment of the typical kind described in this definition. It's your brain working properly, as changing your consciousness is a need we all have - it just becomes a problem when one is escapist for whatever reason. The fact that I want to escape emotional pain is self preservation, and I think that the compulsion of it doesn't really matter as far as deciding whether it's a disease or not. It's just irrelevant.

 

[mymindisgoo]

i've been out of rehab for a little over 2 months. i have used 5 times in the past 2 weeks, dxm, alcohol/ativan, alcohol/ativan, and pot. tonight i'm going to blow oxy and blaze. i will let you know how i feel about the addict for life mentality tomorrow.



edit: it's been two days and i still haven't used? don't have crazy cravings, they're like they were before i got high.....

 

[stray cat]

just to play devil's advocate and argue the other side for a minute, the rehab i attended would probably say several things in reply to the posters in this thread: a) the other explanations/excuses for behavior offered here are symtomatic of the addiction disease and are simply your brain trying to rationalize its want/need to do drugs/alcohol; b) just bc you have not become fully dependent/addicted again yet (or whatever the terminology is), it doesn't mean that you won't, and these instances of substance use/abuse should be viewed against a longer timeline that will almost inevitably result in problematic behavior again, given the requisite amount of time (i.e., everyone that relapses on heroin starts out just drinking a beer or 2 on the weekends, but ultimately these little slips will turn into landslide and given time, full addiction will resume). i'm sure they'd say a lot more. i don't know what the correct answer is, and i certainly don't think they are right in all instances- i definitely don't like the circular logic they tend to use to answer everything and relate it back to addiction.

 

[Khadijah]

^^Oh yea, i know all the shit they say, and its fuckin bullshit. No, I never relapsed cuz of using any other drug, or from drinking. And I have absolutely NO problem at all wat so ever, even a little bit, with drinking, or other drugs. I rarely ever drink, I dont really like it, and i have no problem drinking "just one" or wtfever. I aint an alcoholic, or a cokehead, or a meth head, or none of that--Im a dopehead. (former.) You could give me a lifetime supply of free fishscale coke and I wouldnt be intersted in that shit. Addiction aint this uncontrollable, crazy monster disease that makes your choices for you and leaves you with ZERO free will. Sure, it modifies your free will. it makes you not even WANT to exercise your free will. it kinda puts your free will in a ball-grip and makes it much harder to make the right choices that would put your life straight again. But you still got some degree of control there. Dont get me wrong addiction aint a character flaw or just the result of bein a weak person. It aint that simple.

But it sure as hell aint as simple as just being "disease" neither. If it was, I wouldnt be able to control ANY drug use at all. The first sip of alcohol I took would send me for the block and Id end up coppin a few bricks holed up in a ghetto motel for a month shootin dope til i OD'd. If it was, I would never have been able to touch dope again without completely fallin back into a full on relapse and goin outta control, instead of waking up the next morning like "well, that was fun, but anyways, lets get on with my day here" and then not thought about it again. Other drugs dont make me use heroin. Anytime I used heroin, it was not a relapse or a mistake. It was a carefully planned out session that was a once in a rare while type of deal. by definition the idea of addiction as a disease makes that impossible--it woulda been some kind of thing that "made" me use, that led me into that situation without me having no say about it, and i woulda continued to use more and more and more cuz "one is too many and a thousand is never enough." But one WAS enough for me. How the fuck does that fit in with their ideas?

And like i said before, it aint that a person gotta "eventually lose control", becuz once you get your head on straight and change who you are and how your mind works, etc, there is no control in the first place. You aint GOTTA control something that you aint got a desire to do too much of. It naturally controls itself. If you dont really like eating broccoli a whole lot, but you just enjoy a little bit of it from time to time, and you eat it once in a while with dinner, you aint gotta keep yourself from eating too much of it,becuz there aint no desire there to go overboard. There aint a need to control or moderate or w/ever. that was my situation with heroin the few times I did use over the past year. Alot of women eat well, they eat super healthy and never overeat, which is healthy--but the mentality behind it aint, becuz they constantly on a diet, and they gotta use extreme willpower to NOT eat that cake or eat too much of their meal , etc. the end result is the same, but the mentality and mindset behind it is bad. But I always been the type to eat watever I feel like, whenever I want, and I eat naturally when my body tells me its hungry, and stop when its full. I aint GOT to control the shit I eat to maintain a healthy weight, becuz it naturally moderates itself. Thats the situation that I had with dope once I used again after I quit bein a dopehead. The programs all assume that any person who is using or used after gettin clean is just one step away from fallin down and goin all out balls to the wall back into addict city. But they dont even comprehend that some people aint CONTROLLING their URGES--Some people aint even GOT the urges to control in the first place, and are able to use with the same mentality that they would view goin out and having a real nice steak for dinner as a treat, instead of this forbidden fruit that they allow themself to taste but then have to cut themself off before they go crazy and taste too much. The idea that a person could be an addict, be obsessed with the drug and all that shit, and then NOT be that same way in the same lifetime, is totally foreign and impossible for them to comprehend.

These programs, they get this idea in their heads about how shit works and they just wont fuckin budge from it. They decide the shit they wanna believe, and then they force everything else and mold it to fit the ideas that they have instead of lookin at things as they really are.

I hate the idea of somebody telling me "Oh, you think that you know wat you talking about, but really, you dont know, but *I* know--its your addiction fooling you! You may think you are totally clear headed and logical but really its just rationalizing and you are gettin tricked!"

And the thing that sucks is, no matter WTF you say, you cant argue with that shit, becuz they just believe it so fuckin thoroughly that there aint nothing you can say against it.

Its like a person who is sane, locked up in a mental ward. But the doctors are all warned "hey, this guy, hes gonna TELL you he is sane, but really, he fuckin crazy. Dont listen to him, even if he sounds rational and reasonable, he is a crazy guy and he needs to be locked up here for his own safety!" So no matter how much he says "No, seriously, Im fuckin sane yall, i really am. No joke--I dont belong here", they just gonna pat him on the head and say "Yeaa.....Oookkkay....now heres your pills, take your meds like a good patient!"

Thats the mentality of these programs--no matter the shit you tell them, they believe that they are right no fuckin matter wat, and so you cant even fight the bullshit that they put out becuz they will just keep repeating the same "you think you know but you dont, and we know better" bullshit line at you.

Its mad frustrating in that situation becuz as much as you KNOW that you know the deal and that the shit you are saying is true, bein dismissed like that will irk anybody even the calmest most laid back person. I cant stand to have somebody just sit there nodding and smiling in my face about "yea, but youre wrong. Nope, sorry, you wrong. You have no idea WTF you talking about. Its just your addiction. Yea, OK, thats great that you think you know wats goin on, but you dont. Im right, youre wrong, thats all there is to it, you just cant see it...." You cant get thru to these people. Thats why it aint even worth it to try and justify or explain your use and why its successful or why you aint a lifelong addict, etc, becuz they just gonna always believe the shit they wanna believe no matter anything that you tell them, so fuck them. When you know in your heart that the shit you are doing is right and you aint the person that they think you are, its all good, and it dont matter the shit that some insane-ass 12steppers think about it.

 

[dankstersauce]

I really don't buy into the disease model of addiction. At least for me. I had a problem with alcohol a few years back (I was super depressed etc) but these days I can drink without a problem. At most I'll drink once a week or sometimes once a month, usually 5-6 drinks.

I don't like the cookie cutter approach to getting clean. Its pretty insane to me. A lot of addicts might fit into the stereotype but there's a lot of people who go on to use occasionally.

Overall I'm torn, it feels like a disease when you bottom out but if you trip or smoke a joint it seems silly that addiction isn't something you can move past.

But I lol'ed when someone posted "AA is like chemo, the treatment is almost as bad as the disease"....so true.

 

[stray cat]

Its like a person who is sane, locked up in a mental ward. But the doctors are all warned "hey, this guy, hes gonna TELL you he is sane, but really, he fuckin crazy. Dont listen to him, even if he sounds rational and reasonable, he is a crazy guy and he needs to be locked up here for his own safety!" So no matter how much he says "No, seriously, Im fuckin sane yall, i really am. No joke--I dont belong here", they just gonna pat him on the head and say "Yeaa.....Oookkkay....now heres your pills, take your meds like a good patient!"

ha! that's exactly what it's like!

 

[RedRum OG]

i had an addictive personality even as a kid. like if i didnt get my mountain dew i would flip a tit. loved that caffeine. and really i have always felt like shit without a substance whether it was sugar and caffeine or tobbacco or weed or opiates

 

[Khadijah]

^^And that relates to the topic how? Man, read the OP before you post. Its asking whether you believe addiction is a disease or not. Not about whether or not you think you got an addictive personality or how you were as a kid or wtfever.

If you gonna take the time to post a reply, you might as well check before you post it to make sure that you are actually replying to the topic and not some random-ass shit that aint relevant to the thread.

I aint tryna be harsh on you, im sorry if it comes off that way. Its just the way that I talk that can seem like I am bein less friendly than I mean to. So dont be offended. Im just sayin yo, make a little more of an effort when you reply, otherwise wats the point, you feel me?

 

[deez_nuggs]

I believe it is totally situational. It is not a disease. My grandmother had breast cancer. That was not something she chose. My uncle "is" an alcoholic thats been sober for years. Did a virus or bacteria put a beer in his hands at age 12? No it did not.

I read somewhere addiction could be thought of the absence of choice. I agree with that. It progresses from the initial choice to use, to dependence, whether physical, mental or both. If it were a disease, would it be neurological? Comparable to say, Alzheimer's or Amnesia. There is no cellular basis for alcoholism or drug addiction, just as there is none for schizophrenia, depression, bipolar I or II.

 

[Khadijah]

^When you say no "cellular" basis....Wat do you mean? The brain is made up of cells...and there are definite noticeable patterns in brains of people who have those mental illnesses. Schizophrenia, bipolar, etc, when brains affected by those issues are observed with a SPECT scan,

(In case you didnt know the one I am talking about)

Doctors can easily pick out abnormalities and things like that in the brain that indicate mental illness. The same goes for ADD. A skilled doctor can look at one of these scans and identify a mental illness.

The interesting thing is that for drug addicts there is also certain patterns. the difference is that for the person with a psychiatric problem their brain being abnormal is the reason they have the illness, their brain was abnormal first. and for the most part, the addict brain was normal before the drug use began, and the abnormalities in the image are caused by the drugs.

scans like this ARE useful in treating addiciton for a few reasons....But i still dont believe at all that addiction is a disease.

I was lucky enough to get one of these scans done a little over a year ago. My aunt won a lawsuit she had against her job for discrimination. she knew that i had struggled with my addiction and issues like that for most of my teenage and adult life and she took a chunk of the money she won and as a gift set me up to get a spect scan.

the shit they found was crazy yall. I learned so much about myself and about how addiction does affect the brain.

the prefrontal cortex is the part right in front of your brain behind your forehead. thats your 'decider". Its the part of your brain that controls impulses, basically its responsible for your ability to make mature, responsible, intelligent decisions, to think out your actions, your good judgement, your ability to control impulses, etc. Its very important, and it dont develop all the way til your early 20's, which is part of the reason that alot of young people aint got the best decision making skills and tend to have poor judgement, cant seem to think how their actions now will affect the future, etc.

For me, and im sure in alot of addicts, that part of my brain just looked like it was totally missing on the scan. its there of course, but any empty areas on the scan are spots that your brain aint really functioning. So when it didnt show up on the scan that meant that part of your brain is just AWOL.

So having the PFC not doin its job, that makes a lot of sense about why an addict shows such crazy behavior. Theres a choice part of it, and a part of it that just related to how the drugs make you act, but also the physical functioning of your brain is fucked up, and the part of you that might say "ok, maybe this is gettin out of hand, its time to make some better choices and leave this shit behind", its just like...incapable of doing that. Physically, your head is fucked up, and you aint got the same ability that a person who aint addicted would have to exercise your control over the situation. you might recognize its wrong, but that feeling that you 'cant stop'--sometimes that can come from your brain actually being less able to stop than a healthy brain. And dont get me wrong--not all addicts brains are like this, Im just explainin a small part of how my scan turned out and the shit I learned from it.

The thing is, I had always been that way, before drugs. The drug use, just made it worse. I dont know that being addicted to a drug will do that to EVERYBODYS prefrontal cortex, but I know that for me, there was a problem with that part of my brain which explained why i had been that type of way pretty much my whole life, and why once i got deep into bein addicted to heroin, why it really felt like i was just a fuckin puppet on a string, and as much as i wanted to control the shit i did, it just felt like i was in a movie, watching myself, powerless to control the shit that happened next. even when i knew it was wrong, it was like i was in a fog, just watchin from the sidelines while somebody else in my head made wrong decision after wrong decision. I dont know how to explain it.


But even knowing all that, I DO NOT believe addiction is a disease. I know there is physical components of it that can have a lot to do with your actions and how you are when you hooked on dope or w/ever drug. And i know that people who become addicts, that sometimes they got pre existing problems that makes them more likely to abuse drugs, becuz they are missing certain controls in their brain that a normal person would have, the function that 'overrides' shitty decisions and prevents them from doin really stupid shit, the addicted persons brain is missing that safety feature.

But straight up, and this is something they even told me there at the place I got the scan at, becuz they dont just do the scans but they give you a whole treatment plan and got all kinda psychiatrists and doctors and psychologists there to help you understand wat the scan means and how to use that information to help you correct the problem....They tell you that the damage, the problems, they are TREATABLE.

Just becuz your brain IS that way right now, just becuz you got "holes" in your brain from drug use (Which aint real holes--your brain is fully intact, but the holes are just areas of your brain that aint functioning right....that shit can be reversed. It can be treated, fixed, dealt with, and changed to bring you back to normal. There is medications you can use to balance out chemical imbalances that cause some of the problems. Not necessarily even antidepressants or w/ever. And through being conscious of these problems and knowin where your issues are at you can eventually re program your brain, the same way it got re programmed at first when you got addicted to drugs and altered the way your brain worked.

That shit aint permanent, and you aint a hopeless, helpless, powerless victim who cant control your actions. It might kinda handicap you in a way....it might give you a challenge...it might affect your life and the way you use drugs....but it aint the whole story. It dont define you, and it aint a definitive situation that determines who you are and how you act. You got lots of say in it. The state of your brain, your "addict brain" or WTFever--that shapes who you are, but it dont choose for you. It has a lot of influence , but its still on you at the end. You might struggle more than somebody else might but that shit aint the bottom line, and i think thats where alot of addicts get it wrong. They learn that there is an "addict brain", that a drug addicts brain is a certain type of way that causes certain problems and they be like "Oh, well thats just how i am, i cant help it, this is me, Im powerless, becuz I am physically psychologically incapable of saying no--my brains just wired that way" and so on.

But that aint the truth. The truth is a lot less black and white than that. The brain dont stay that way forever and with the proper treatment and medications if necessary the "addict" brain can be the "normal" brain again. It aint a permanent condition, it aint a disability that cripples you from bein able to control your drug use for life.

All the shit about "addiction is a disease, and it aint got no choice involved, the addict is powerless to resist drugs and alcohol" etc...Thats bull. As an addict I still had some degree of choice it was just so limited. and at that time, i really couldnt stop, for a very long time. It took forever until somethin HUGE enough happened to me to give me enough of a reality check to realize that i seriously, really HAD TO stop, that i had no choice. i had to get FORCED to stop.

But once i was free from the addictions grasp, once i had made that decision and knew wat I HAD TO do, slowly it started being more and more my choice again. I got my free will back, i got my choice back little by little and i got stronger and stronger and was eventually able to resist that shit on my own. The time that i HAD to be stopped for--that passed . Its long gone. but yet i kept staying off the shit on my own, out of my own choice. At first it wasnt choice that forced me to stop but its like once i broke out of that spell, i was able to choose better and better as time went on.

and a few times, after I broke free and busted outta those chains that the addiction had on me, I had no problem using occasionally, responsibly, once in a while. The old addict brain was gone. The power it had over me was gone. I was back to bein a normal sensible person.

See as you use the drugs, the longer and longer it goes on, the more it kinda deforms and distorts the way that you think and your brain works, until it feels like you really cant even control it no more. it mutates your ability to do alot of things related to discipline, willpower, self control, power over your actions. You still got those abilities but they are weakened so bad by the changes in your mind. But once you start to break away from that shit, break out of those patterns, they get weaker and weaker and your choice and free will get even stronger and come out of hiding, start liftin weights and gettin all pumped up, and then all of a sudden you dont think and act like an addict no more, a miserable pathetic addict who feels like they really aint got a choice to stop using....now you feel strong, capable, and in control, you the one callin the shots, in charge of shit, and it feels good. You take back control again, you gave that shit up to your addiction, and you still had it somewhere inside you during that time but you just let it kinda float in the wind out of your grasp, you couldnt reach it and didnt want to becuz it would be too hard. But once you find it, you aint nothing remotely close to powerless.

Thats the shit that the 12 step and disease-model type people dont recognize...Its all or nothing to them--if you been addicted once, they think you doomed to always be addicted forever, that its a unchangeble state that your brain exists in, instead of somethin that is constantly changing and can be altered for better or worse. Once you change it for the better, the ball is in your court again. You can control wat and how you use, you aint got to be a slave to the idea that you can never change, thats ridiculous. Even science shows that you can. People use science, the idea of these brain scans, etc, to try and prove their point that addiction IS a disease, but all they really prove is that its a temporary situation in your brain caused by a combination of your drug abuse and your pre existing imbalances (if you have any) that can be modified , treated, re-programmed, changed into somethin better.

I do believe that there is many physical aspects to addiction, but i also know that it aint some kind of terminal illness, some permanent disease. Theres a part of it that is physical but that part dont determine your life, it only sets the stage for the majority of it which is up to you.

 

[M.Minkoff]

I don't believe that addiction is a disease. To accept such an idea turns drug users into permanent victims. I can't count how many times I've heard someone justify their abhorrent behavior with "I have an addiction." It's an excuse. It's lazy thinking. It's a lie told by doctors to keep you purchasing services and medication, which of course you need to manage your "disease". It's way easier to accept than "I hurt myself and the people I love because I'm a selfish dick who likes to get faded and lacks self control." haha

We all make shitty, substance-related choices we later regret. Sometimes under duress, during times of emotional turmoil, bereavement, etc., it can definitely feel like you've completely lost control. Sometimes you voluntarily give up that control, but its is always your to reclaim.

For me, the most challenging and important part of dealing with my drug use was taking responsibility for my own actions. My "breakthrough" moment happened in one of those group therapy meetings in rehab. I realized "Holy shit! Not one person thinks this is their fault!" Those of you who've been "inside" (so to speak) know that they're not letting you go until you parrot back that nonsense about being helpless and whatnot.

I don't question the existence of physical or psychological dependency, but those concepts are altogether different from "addiction". This thread is great. Glad to see so many thought-provoking responses from people who think for themselves.

 

[lasthurrah19]

That's a good point, M.Minkoff. I don't think I ever bought into the addiction model. I'm pretty hard on myself in general, especially back when I was using heavily (still smoke weed now, was doing opiates about 4-5 times a month before that, for about a year - was still too much, still controlled my life a lot). I never had an illusion that I wasn't addicted, or that it wasn't my fault - I guess it's easy to think that way when you think you're a piece of shit already.
Sorry, off topic a little. Anyway, it's so much easier to blame addiction/the "disease"/the past/other problems not of your making - not that many things don't shape a person and their (in this case addictive) personality - but everyone has those things, and not everyone abuses substances to the degree addicts do. I get why I did it, but that's not an excuse in the end. Obviously everyone is different.
One other thing, I love how AA/NA says anyone clean but not in the program wasn't/isn't really an addict since they could do it themselves (or they're a dry drunk AKA a miserable fuck). What kind of bullshit is that? There are a lot of things wrong with AA/NA, but certain things are just mind numbingly stupid and circular (like this and some of the examples stray cat posted).

 

[phactor]

^^^

AA/NA are not the only ones who use the disease model. It is in the DSM and is accepted by the medical community. To attribute it solely to AA/NA is flat out wrong.


I voted disease, but its both.

I think its a disease/genetic predisposition. I know both sides of my family are full of addicts. I'd imagine that addiction has been a problem in my family

Look at Twins/Adoption studies. Almost all of them have pointed towards the genetic component. Sure environment plays a role, but so do genetics.

I find it odd that may say the disease model is a "cop out". If one had diabetes or cancer they would try to treat it correct? Are they weak for doing so? I think that recognizing that one has a disease, then taking the steps to arrest its progress is a very courageous thing to do. Most people do not recover from addiction. It has to be more then a situational cause. If that was the case, then geographical moves would work more often IMO.

Coping skills also play a large role in the process, which is something that usually is skipped in this discussion.

Anyways, if anyone is interested here is a well sourced article in regards to twin studies. I worked in the foster care system and personally saw examples of this. The children were adopted young and grew up in great and loving homes. Then when they hit the age of about 16 and started experimenting they seemed to get hooked much easier.

Research supported by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA, which is part of the National Institutes of Health [NIH]) has tried to pinpoint the role genes play in predisposing individuals to drug abuse. For example, Kenneth Kendler and Carol Prescott reported in "Cocaine Use, Abuse, and Dependence in a Population-Based Sample of Female Twins" (British Journal of Psychiatry, vol. 173, no. 10, 1998) that genetic factors played a major role in patterns of progression from marijuana and cocaine use to abuse by female twins. The study finds that concordance rates—both twins using, abusing, or being dependent on drugs—were higher for identical twins than for fraternal twins. For cocaine use, concordance was 54% in identical twins and 42% in fraternal twins; for abuse, 47% in identical twins and 8% in fraternal twins; and for dependence, 35% in identical twins and zero for fraternal twins. (See Figure 4.1.)

The research supports earlier studies that indicated family and social environmental factors are influential in determining whether an individual begins using drugs. The more significant finding was that progression from drug use to abuse or dependence (as defined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, Washington, DC, 1994) was due largely to genetic factors. For cocaine and marijuana, approximately 60% to 80% of the differences in abuse and dependence between fraternal and identical twin pairs were attributable to genetic factors.



Read more: Genetics and the Environment - Twin Studies - Twins, Abuse, Identical, Genes, Sexual, and Orientation http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2233/Genetics-Environment-TWIN-STUDIES.html#ixzz16XbvVA2U

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2233/Genetics-Environment-TWIN-STUDIES.html

Now obviously, identical twins are going to have the same genes (genetic copies). While identical twins do not. This is to strong of a correlation to ignore. Like Lacey said, drug use causes changes in the brain (as do many things, trauma for example). The Brain is very moldable. Add these changes to a person with addictive genes and you most likely have a person with addiction issues (provided they use drugs in the first place). I know I am one of these people. In fact, I'm lucky to be in the relatively good shape I am in after all of the drug and alcohol abuse.

So call it what you want, genetic predisposition or disease, they are the same thing.

i had an addictive personality even as a kid. like if i didnt get my mountain dew i would flip a tit. loved that caffeine. and really i have always felt like shit without a substance whether it was sugar and caffeine or tobbacco or weed or opiates

I used to hide candy in my clothes drawers when I was a little kid, I guess I was practicing lol.

 

[caseface99]

"Drug misuse is not a disease, it is a decision, like the decision to step out in front of a moving car. You would call that not a disease but an error in judgment. When a bunch of people begin to do it, it is a social error, a life-style. In this particular life-style the motto is "Be happy now because tomorrow you are dying," but the dying begins almost at once, and the happiness becomes a distant memory."
-Philip K. Dick

Just a quote i like, i think it applies to this thread.


And furthermore, since people are bring up NA/AA, how about essentially giving up on yourself and putting your faith in a "higher power" (as in god 8) ) as being the only way to stay sober.

Personally, if you can't do it yourself, then putting faith in god won't do shit. No offense to anyone here thats religious, but following the 12 steps, especially the first couple, is just a big excuse for getting shit done when you've convinced yourself you can't do it on your own. AMiRight?

I know this isn't directly related, but i did make the thread. Lol. And it can be tied in. This is almost evidence that it isn't a disease. Think about it.

Again, no offense to religious people, but when has faith in God EVER cured a disease/illness? Pray the addiction away? sounds like an excuse to get yourself into a new situation, whereas the old situation involved drugs and the new one doesn't.

Im severely sleep deprived so im not sure if i am making sense lol. I'm going to sleep.

 

[K8eBayB]

I don't know what I think really. I've struggled with addiction for a good 10 years now and I hate to think that I am just lacking a strong will to live up to society's idea of a successful person. I have also been to treatment a number of times and am familiar with the disease model. I do think it's possible to get clean without na/aa, but I think that many times the recommendations are based on the belief that certain things are more likely to work, in this case, an individual would be more likely to remain clean long-term while participating in a recovery group than trying to do it on their own. I'm not going to make this post about my personal experience with recovery groups, so I will just leave it at that.

I have used many different substances in my past and never really had a problem until I began using heroin. The time that I have had clean from my drug of choice, I never felt tempted to use other drugs or switch addictions as they say. That being said, I do believe that science is showing that it is a brain disease in the sense that, drug addicts will almost always show certain abnormalities in terms of brain scans and other electronic imaging. What more evidence would one need to see that it is a physical manifestation, and thus all the willpower in the world will not repair those nerve-pathways or restore the neurotransmitters to a healthy and normal level. I don't think it is an excuse, but I do think that if more people understood then maybe less money would be spent on treatment that simply doesn't work.

Also, the disease definition is not as simple as some are making it sound. Addiction is a complex problem that has physical as well as psychological components. For that reason, treatment isn't as simple as using traditional medicine. When they say it's a disease, I think they mean that it's chronic, that it will continue to get worse until you do something about it and when compared to other chronic illnesses recovery and relapase rates are similar. If you take a sample of people who are diagnosed with heart disease and a sample of people who are drug dependent, the rate of relapse, recovery, and compliance with treatment are extremely similar. I think that the disease concept is a way for mainstream to realize that it is a problem which requires treatment not ridicule. Without the disease theory, there would be no basis for lobbying for rights of addicts. It is the people who believe it is a choice that are supporters of punishing addicts with jail time. Those who understand, know that punishment is not the answer, treatment is.

One other thing, I think that there are also people who end up in treatment after an incident or at their family's request who are more drug abusers than addicts. That is not what I'm talking about. These people did not beat the odds when they left treatment and never had any further drug-related problems, they were never drug addicts in the first place.

*Sorry for the long post and if I got off topic. Basically, while I agree that there is no one definition of a drug addict and that being one is not automatically a sentence of a life at the mercy of one's addiction, I also agree with certain aspects of the disease-model.