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Discussion: Could/Couldn't Care Less

physix

physix

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Has this idiom been discussed here, before? I've only recently started watching this forum, so it may have been done before -- and it certainly could be one of those "OMG-NOT AGAIN!!" topics (sorry if it is).

But, I was corrected twice when I said "could care less".

"Uh-huh... well that means you care alittle, at least... ah-huh!"

Well, if they were returning sarcasm with sarcasm, I'd be more amused and annoyed. But, it wasn't. Both 'correctors' thought they had me in a corner with their grammatical logic!

That's when I wondered: what does Words make of this?

So... which do you say?

I could care less.

or

I couldn't care less.

Does it annoy you when someone uses one instead of the other? Do you correct them? Does your usage change with the intent or nature of the dialog/correspondence/prose/essay/whatever?


I'll give my thoughts on the matter after some folks have posted their opinions. And, please, discuss away!

Oh, if you can find some history on the phrase, that's even better. Aside from anecdotes from my family, who claim to have used the originating phrase this colloquium came from, I can't really find anything stronger than 'perhaps' and 'maybe's.
 
'i couldn't care less is' the one that makes sense. i think somewhere down the line it got confused - 'like i could give a damn' became 'i could give a damn' - but now it's not something ya really think about because you know what the person means either way. it's different in forum/internet type situations because we can see the words, though i still don't see the need in pointing out little things like that. a person would hardly say "i think you mean couldn't" irl..
but uhh, i'm not a Words regular anyway.
 
"Couldn't" makes sense, but "i could care less" is just easier to say. in casual conversation i don't think it matters; plus you know what someone means when they say "could."
 
its always pissed me off too.

i say "i couldnt i give a fuck," just to be clear.
 
not_broken_420 said:
"Couldn't" makes sense, but "i could care less" is just easier to say. in casual conversation i don't think it matters; plus you know what someone means when they say "could."
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you know, i think you're on to something... i think a lot of people look at the logic of it (could versus couldn't) and they answer accordingly... but in the heat of an argument, for instance, i've never heard "couldn't care less"... it's always "could"... anecdotal, of course, but this has been with the British I know and the Americans.

something about the 'heat of the moment' that isn't conducive to 'not', maybe?

edit: i'm not trying to imply that NO ONE says it correctly in the 'heat of it'... just providing my experience.
 
katmeow said:
I've never actually heard anyone use 'could care less'.
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are you Australian? Or just mod'ing the Australian forum?

I ask because almost every time this has come up in another international board i frequent, most of the English-native countries said they had heard it both ways (in varying degrees, of course) but most of the Australians had said they NEVER heard the 'could'.

that's rather interesting... i did a 'movie-search' with that phrase to see if anything popped up in that regard... but no luck so far.

the evolution of 'natural' and informal speech is interesting...


(altho' i still don't know how the phrase "music soothes the savage beast" was allowed to live on)
 
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I have never heard anyone say 'I could care less' and if someone ever did say that to me I would be incredibly irritated by it and would most likely call them out on it. I cannot abide incorrect or nonsensical versions of idioms.
 
idioms and other forms of 'natural speech', by their very nature, cannot be judged by logical structure nor grammatical legalities.
 
physix said:
idioms and other forms of 'natural speech', by their very nature, cannot be judged by logical structure nor grammatical legalities.
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Hmmm I'd argue that they can, and should. At least in the case of those that have an obviously logical version. Why would one want to use the other??
 
cuddly.kittie.too said:
Hmmm I'd argue that they can, and should. At least in the case of those that have an obviously logical version. Why would one want to use the other??
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because it's been given the same meaning; that meaning is clear and understood; and no one ever means that phrase in any way other than "i couldn't care less", unless they're being a jerk.

i mean, idioms evolve, don't they? and they change structure, even meaning... things are dropped, used merely as 'triggers' for the bigger saying with the context culturally understood... i mean, learning any language will show you that you can't use logic for idioms and that's why they are the hardest part of any language to learn. the more 'alive' the lanuage, the harder it is -- that's because of idiomatic speaking. check out the history of "... two the nines" for a perfect example of idiomatic evolution, drop-offs, and ellipses.

even with 'could care less', there's supposedly a history behind it.

"just when i thought i couldn't care less, turns out -- i could care less..."

"i could care less... that is, if i cared at all" (which is actually what my gramps used to say... the entire line... until we learned that "i could care less" was a trigger to a much-longer sentence that meant that he didn't care at all).

person #1: i couldn't care less.
person #2: he might not, but i could care less... [meaning: no matter how little you care, i care a less than you]

entire words and phrases drop off of idioms all the time, but the whole point in it is that it doesn't have to make sense, anymore than 'raining cats and dogs' would make you run outside to make sure you don't get kitty-cat blood on your car.

so, no... i don't think idioms should be held by the same standard of formal speech because it's not formal speech, which is why there isn't the equivalent of a spoken-bibliography in casual conversation. lord knows if i got a grade in casual conversation 101, my failure would be with fantastical proportions. :(
 
learning any language will show you that you can't use logic for idioms and that's why they are the hardest part of any language to learn. the more 'alive' the lanuage, the harder it is -- that's because of idiomatic speaking.
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Well said.

I grew up in the UK, and only ever heard the 'couldn't' version... but later became aware of the 'could' version (identifying it as the US variant), and thought it made no sense whatsoever. However, now I can see how it might have evolved.

Maybe I'm wrong about the point of origin, but it seems to me that the 'could' version has spilled over from the US to other parts of the world via pop culture, the net, etc... like many other idioms.
 
maybe the people who say "I could care less" are just trying to teach themselves to get to the point where they can say "I couldn't care less".
 
(Wordy) said:
Well said.
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thanks!


(Wordy) said:
Maybe I'm wrong about the point of origin, but it seems to me that the 'could' version has spilled over from the US to other parts of the world via pop culture, the net, etc... like many other idioms.
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well, that most certainly could be the case.

oh, my bane -- wonderfully reviled idioms!!!

echo off said:
maybe the people who say "I could care less" are just trying to teach themselves to get to the point where they can say "I couldn't care less".
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lol
 
I do see your point, but I think there is a difference between sayings such as 'raining cats and dogs', which are obviously not meant to be literal, and those that are perfectly logical and make some sense. I don't think it's too hard for people to make that distinction and I think that where there is a version that actually makes sense, people should make the effort to use it.
 
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