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Dirty Acid FAQ & Discussion

Do you believe qualitative differences between LSD products can matter / be felt?

  • Yes: the difference between dirty and clean LSD can be felt

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • No: there is only LSD

    Votes: 17 68.0%

  • Total voters
    25
Compact or silly threads are manageable for me even while on vacation but this one certainly deserves attention and care - I don't even know for sure if I am invited to co-analyse or not (because I am quite wasted right now) but you have my word that I will try to get involved asap. Meanwhile bravo on the thoroughness for sure, this stuff is fit for ADD if it wasn't so very fit for PD (for only whom I speak). <3
 
Because the effects of psychedelics are variable! You were not the same person you were 4 weeks ago, and you doubled your dose. Why would you expect the same experience?

It's been well documented that no two psychedelic experiences are ever the same, and that bad trips are always a possibility. A person can have 49 excellent trips on the same sheet of LSD, but on the 50th he might totally freak out. If the LSD has been stored properly (i.e. not left in the sun or the rain), chances are the person has changed a lot more than the acid has!

Perhaps your body was not prepared for the higher dosage you took. LSD does have dose-dependent side effects - some people get uncomfortable if they take too much. Maybe you were more tense that day than others, or you had some subconscious conflict inside.

I agree with your post.

I also found this but someone else mentioned it earlier in another post but here's the link. Basically it says that Sandoz LSD is just akin to high ug/mic LSD and that LSD is LSD.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article2.shtml

I did get a headache on LSD once but it was not because of the LSD being "dirty". The headache was not horrible, it was not a migraine or something I needed to take an aspirin or anything for and it did not last long. I attribute it to drinking beer while on a moderate dose of LSD, possibly being dehydrated from not drinking enough water during the day, or having low blood sugar from not eating a lot during the day. It did not last that long and as soon as I drank water and ate some food I was fine.
 
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I'll note that I was convinced that there should be an FAQ by Deinonychus's first reply to me. That this thread is 7 pp. corroborates such.

ebola
 
Good subject. I'll put my 2 cents in for what it is worth.

I took a lot of LSD in the 90s most of it in the early 90s I lived in hippy towns that always had it floating around.

Some LSD was better then others. A lot of it was how fresh and potent it was, 80mcgs vs 180mcgs, just laid paper vs paper months and old stored in ???

But some was just ghetto or dirty, it would float around and enough people just had poor trips and it would just be common knowledge that certain batches of LSD were just not that good. They would give people dim and shallow visuals, poor body high and hangovers and headaches.
Poor LSD would not be around long because their was plenty of good LSD and people just would not want it after enough people had poor experiences with.

The experience of taking LSD that gave me a poor trip and then having different people at different times and places also take it and say it was a poor trip just makes me feel that some LSD is not that good.

I don't think it was subjective or setting I have had excellent LSD laid on desk blotter paper with crooked homemade scores and poor LSD laid on beautiful inlay cotton paper. I have also gotten pages(100 tabs) of good LSD and ate them in all different settings sometimes bad places but they still had good visual and a nice body feel. I have had “dirty” LSD in great settings and great head spaces it still sucked, still the same dim colors, poor body feel and hangover.

I think it is from impure LSD and some kind of impurities that muck up an LSD trip. I believe a chemical is a chemical but I also think impurities affect people especially impurities from a ergot family.
 
I only had LSD which I would consider "dirty" once. It was the "dragons" that were all over the place in 03ish. Supposedly, these were amber crystal. Just did not feel nearly as good as the other stuff that was going around (Fractals, Learys etc). I cannot really remember the effects all that well.

Around that time, the Fractals and Dragons were the main prints. This is likely because they were very widespread on Phish tour and then found their way into other circles.
 
The following post is my last one in 'Good, 'Bad', 'Clean', ACID, another massive discussion about this topic. It describes my theory for why so many people assume variance in their LSD trips is attributable to variations in purity (though it potentially applies to the overwhelming majority of all recreational drugs -- see MXE thread)
Did you ever do any that gave you aches and pains and headaches

Yeah I did some LSD that gave me a headache. Then the next week I took the next blotter along and had a fantastic time.
Same here. I've been using from the same 75 hits from the same sheet of blotter for 1.5 years now. I've tripped over 25 times on it, mostly using 2 hits. Some times I get lots of vasoconstriction and spend hours annoyed with it doing stretching exercises and feeling edgy and buggy. Friends have experienced similar variation between trips on this blotter. Sometimes I get lots of mucus build up in my lungs. Yet other times I break down crying with the sheer joy of existing, totally free of unwanted side effects. Sometimes the room is filled with visuals and I feel mentally lucid, with extreme aesthetic enhancement. Other times, at the same dose, it's more of a body high marked foremost by sensations of shallow hedonistic pleasure. Sometimes I'm floored for a few hours on two hits, other times I feel like I should've taken four hits, etc. etc.

This is all to say that these last 25 or so times tripping on mostly the same dosage of the same blotter has continued the trend of unpredictable, highly varied experiences I've always had with LSD, indeed almost every psychedelic (including RCs at the same dosage from the same batch), I've experienced over 14 years of tripping. The qualitative variance is similar whether it's the same blotter or from different blotter, or a different medium (the "quantitative" intensity is admittedly more consistent within batches than between batches, because, I presume, the ug amount is different). Psychedelics are "mind manifesting," and I've found they are, as would be expected on such a translation, as varied as the mental and physical states of the minds from which they manifest their experience.

Like most others, I have noticed there is some consistency in the quality of psychedelic experiences across short time periods. That is, I tend to get a bunch of edgy, vasoconstricted type trips in a row, or a succession of highly emotional trips, etc., using the same psychedelic from the same batch. This is expected, because things like life stress, how I'm doing with my girlfriend, who I'm hanging out with, and states of physical health tend to come and go in chunks of time (say a week or a month long for most). If I had bought a ten strip of this same LSD, but on different prints, and used it over the period of a couple weeks or a month, and repeated this same pattern over 1.5 years, there would undoubtedly be a lot of consistency in effects correlated with specific 10 strip use periods. But that would merely owe to the fact that small quantities tend to get used up over short periods of time, periods of time that map onto the aforementioned chunks of time defined by some consistent psychological or health state, and are only merely correlated with the concomitant use of some particular brand or medium of LSD.

Most LSD use by most people occurs in just such chunks of time (personally, this is the first time I've ever had a bunch of the same stuff for a long time). More often, users get a ten strip or buy a few sugar cubes at a rave of the same batch of LSD and use it up quick. Then it's dry for awhile or they don't feel like tripping. Then they get some time off or whatever and use a bunch more LSD over another chunk of time. Only now the season has changed, or they met a knew girl, a new job, or they got fatter, etc, and those events color the stretch of time they use the new LSD -- LSD that comes on different prints, or perhaps it's the same print, though they cannot know is the same LSD or not, since the same prints are often laid by different people, or their dealer lied to make a sale, or was lied to himself, etc.

With so much uncertainty, we naturally look for ways to make our experiences more predictable, and so we generalize based on salient characteristics, and those generalizations create expectations, reinforced by social discussions (like some such LSD is dirty or clean), that in turn frame future experiences with LSD that looks similar. And so we start saying "geltabs are almost always better," or microdots, or white on white, or Rolling Stones... And we, naturally, don't want to give up that source of control over an experience that can be so powerful and consequential to our well-being. It's also far easier to recall a single physical feature of a print than all the contextual factors impacting our experience when we used that print, and so that physical particularity of the LSD is amplified relative to other factors when making judgments about the source of experiential influence.

I've seen this phenomena over and over again with drugs and without drugs. Cognitive and heuristic biases define our experience, and are far reaching, powerful, and constant. Also constant is the certainty that we are not relying on such biases, that we're more free of them than others (see "Third Person Effect"), as well as a reluctance to entertain evidence that threatens to make our established beliefs inconsistent with our past or current behavior.

The features that define the context within which we often find ourselves forced to make judgments about the effects of LSD: high uncertainty, powerful emotions, potentially very threatening experiences, wide time ranges, and a strong desire for control -- are so ripe for the subconscious application of these biases of judgment in memory (similar to within a romantic relationship in some senses), that even if there are genuine intrinsic qualities of the blotter that directly effect experience, we can expect that aspect of the experience to be overshadowed so fully by these other factors impacting experience that the reliability of our judgments is hopelessly muddied.

That's why I said it's silly, because even if the effect is genuine, other sources of variance, for which ample evidence has been detailed in this thread, are so powerful, and alternate established explanations are so many, the "signal to noise ratio" is so low, that it is unrealistic to expect that such an intrinsic effect could be tracked consistently within subjective experience -- it's unrealistic to think we could rely on its predictive power. That is, it's highly unlikely to matter in any practical way, no matter its truth or falsity. It's not the concept itself for which I'm reserving my most extreme skepticism, it's for its feasible application.
 
I don't know what the cause is, but when I used to do a lot of acid I could definitely tell differences in the trips. Some types would give me nice clearly resolved visuals and others would be more muddy, if you will. Don't know why. Maybe some had additives, who knows. I used to like the little tiny grey ones and orange ones. The flat yellow tabs and green tabs were also nice. Also the medium small purple tabs with the convex surfaces were great. I would crush the tabs up and snort it. Much faster onset. No burn or anything. It worked great. Get high in like 10-15 minutes, as I recall. I know it was a lot faster than oral, and no "acid indigestion" if you know what I mean. This was back in the 80s so my recall is not all that great.

I also remember that if I took 4 hits I would see a lot of fine lines in the air but then if I smoked Cannabis products the lines would get a lot more dense, meaning just huge amounts of lines filling the entire field of view in 3D, like the room was full of it. But if I drank a beer the visuals would get blurry and take on a "wet" quality. Alcohol really messes up LSD visuals, at least for me, while Cannabis makes them more severe.

Highly doubt blowing microdots has anything to do with increased absorption/effect. First alerts with LSD are usually felt 20-30 mins into it, no matter how it is ingested. You have to remember how small the active dose is when it comes to LSD.

Looking back on it though, I am fucking shocked my younger self did not ever try snorting dots. LOL... of course it didn't burn btw... those things are/were tiny.

edit: wait... were you snorting blotter?
 
"Dirty" and "Clean" LSD are myths. LSD is LSD.

The whole thing with different types of crystals is all about marketing/brands and getting lots of money for selling a hypothetical product that's supposedly more "pure" when in reality it's all LSD.
 
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I remember someone telling me how LSD-25 degrades into iso-LSD or something leading to a heavier body load. I could understand if LSD-25 degraded into something not specifically iso-LSD to cause negative effects. If anything is dirty acid it is that or else it is stuff that was not properly converted and/or cleaned. Simple as that.

Edit: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml

"At Woodstock, Hugh Romney (a/k/a "Wavy Gravy") of the Hog Farm announced to the crowd, "There's no such thing as bad acid, just acid that's made wrong."

"
Most of the books on the market that give details on the LSD process - for example, Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist, by Robert Brown, Basic Drug Manufacturing and The Book of Acid, by Adam Gottlieb, as well as Michael Valentine Smith's book - fail to describe the efficient chromatographic procedures, like zone-melting chromatography, necessary for the manufacture of pure LSD. Timothy Scully told me that both he and Owsley believed the tolerable limits of impurities to be one tenth of a percentage point (requiring 99.9% purity) - far from the 50 percent figure of Michael Valentine Smith! Until careful studies are done, the true figures for tolerable impurities will remain unknown.

How do these impurities change the optimum course of action of LSD and the experience it creates? One of the theories is that, because d-LSD-25 is like a key (its outer electron shell has a specific shape), it fits into a number of tiny locks called "receptor sites." These are located somewhere in the brain - nobody is sure where, but one theory suggests that they might be in the brain stem. It is known, however, that these receptor sites interact only with extremely specific molecular configurations.

The various ergot compounds, cycloalkamides of LSD and lumi-LSD plug into the same receptor sites as LSD does. But these compounds evidently don't turn the lock in the smooth, clean manner of LSD. Many of these compounds have effects similar to symptoms of ergot poisoning - the St. Anthony's Fire of the Middle Ages. These symptoms include inflamed joints, headaches, nausea, and hot and cold flashes."
 
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I was under the impression (and thats al it is) that "dirty" LSD is just LSD that has been sitting around and degrading due to its exposure with air, light and moisture
 
I know this is an old post but I still want to add a little. Way back in the sixties we had a lot of acid running around, some good, some mediocre and some definitely bad due to one reason or another. For instance, Owsley was always great if not carried in your pocket for a week in the summer heat. Some others were also really good. But occasionally some real shit would come around that was spiked with strychnine to make it sharper and would cause more flashy visuals. But the body high sucked, abdominal cramps, leg and arm joint pain and sometime the flying shits. The worst one was called chocolate chip. That's why I tried to stick to blotter or window pane because there was less chance of adulteration (almost impossible unless blotter was stp). And of course there were always the rippoffs that didn't do anything. It's always good to have a good trustworthy source. Oh, and as to the lsa, Ive always found it to be pretty stable, but old lsd
degrades to it's precurser lsa. And yes, lsa has a bit heavier body load, and especially if made directly from morning glory seeds and not properly filtered and cleaned to get the fats of the seed out which causes some pretty mean gastro-intestinal distress which definitely will ruin a trip.
 
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I remember someone telling me how LSD-25 degrades into iso-LSD or something leading to a heavier body load. I could understand if LSD-25 degraded into something not specifically iso-LSD to cause negative effects. If anything is dirty acid it is that or else it is stuff that was not properly converted and/or cleaned. Simple as that.

Edit: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml

"At Woodstock, Hugh Romney (a/k/a "Wavy Gravy") of the Hog Farm announced to the crowd, "There's no such thing as bad acid, just acid that's made wrong."

"
Most of the books on the market that give details on the LSD process - for example, Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist, by Robert Brown, Basic Drug Manufacturing and The Book of Acid, by Adam Gottlieb, as well as Michael Valentine Smith's book - fail to describe the efficient chromatographic procedures, like zone-melting chromatography, necessary for the manufacture of pure LSD. Timothy Scully told me that both he and Owsley believed the tolerable limits of impurities to be one tenth of a percentage point (requiring 99.9% purity) - far from the 50 percent figure of Michael Valentine Smith! Until careful studies are done, the true figures for tolerable impurities will remain unknown.

How do these impurities change the optimum course of action of LSD and the experience it creates? One of the theories is that, because d-LSD-25 is like a key (its outer electron shell has a specific shape), it fits into a number of tiny locks called "receptor sites." These are located somewhere in the brain - nobody is sure where, but one theory suggests that they might be in the brain stem. It is known, however, that these receptor sites interact only with extremely specific molecular configurations.

The various ergot compounds, cycloalkamides of LSD and lumi-LSD plug into the same receptor sites as LSD does. But these compounds evidently don't turn the lock in the smooth, clean manner of LSD. Many of these compounds have effects similar to symptoms of ergot poisoning - the St. Anthony's Fire of the Middle Ages. These symptoms include inflamed joints, headaches, nausea, and hot and cold flashes."

I had the privilege to trip on some "Owsley" shortly before their shop got busted(actually tripped on Owsley many times). Probably the nicest trip I remember set and setting was perfect and that with some of the best produced acid can 't be beat. But along with the good chemists there were always the short cutter, bad chemicals and just bad chemistry students messing with peoples health.
 
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