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Dimethocaine, dendritic plasticity, & cardiotoxicity

any major dude

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Read this article in brainwaving the other day and it got me to thinking... If cocaine is proven to increase dendritic plasticity in the nucleus accumbens, could dimethocaine have a similar action, being quite a similar drug?

Also, obviously cocaine has some pretty serious drawbacks, with the cardiotoxicity, capacity for crippling psychological dependence, spending time in sketchy trailerparks just before dawn, contraction of Hep C, etc. Dimethocaine seems to be somewhat less potent, so hopefully somewhat less addictive, and is likely not sold in sketchy trailerparks, or cut with levamisole, a veternary heartworm medicine. However I know nothing about the cardiotoxicity of this substance. I'd imagine it would likely have a similar profile to cociane, but I haven't been able to find much info on it. Anyone here have any theories or links to some hard data on the subject?
 
i would hardly be surprised if dimethocaine produces this sort of effect, it seems to be common among dopaminergic stims (not at the lib right now so i can only say cocaine and caffeine for sure perhaps MA as well) but i think the author is playing devils advocate identifying a mechanism by which spinogenesis could be beneficial, there are far safer ways to improve learning (eg hard work/discipline) but it is an interesting spin on the original findings regarding epigenetics
 
The cadiotoxicity of cocaine is due to it's local anaesthetic activity, so any local anaesthetic taken to excess is cardiotoxic (it prevents the propagation of the synchronizing pulse from the sino-arterial node aka pacemaker and can lead to venrticular fibrillation & possible myocardial infarction/heart attack)
 
ah, well then Dimethocaine would probably be a bad choice, since it's local anesthetic properties are similar to those of cocaine, while its CNS properties are greatly reduced.

And yes, the author was definitely playing devils advocate, but if there are ways to increase dendritic plasticity without (much) toxicity, we'd be remiss to not try to find them, IMO
 
ah, well then Dimethocaine would probably be a bad choice, since it's local anesthetic properties are similar to those of cocaine, while its CNS properties are greatly reduced.

By about an order of magnitude, so to get equally high, you've got 10 times the anesthetic effect. Bad news!

Does anyone actually take this stuff though? I hardly see anyone posting about it. I always assumed it was being used as fake cocaine or an adulterant to give numbies and a bit of coke-y effects to inert powder or a mix of cut and some not-coke stim. Though benzocaine, which is available as pure powder from another RC vendor (presumably for that purpose), would be a much more economical choice for that...
 
It's CNS stimulating effects are only 1/2 as potent, not 10x.

It's not a bad drug. I'm much more concerned about hepatoxicity than cardiotoxicity though. Still, unless you're really abusing the stuff, it should be relatively safe.
 
really only 1/2? Seems like I'd read a study somewhere that also said it had 1 10th the CNS profile of cocaine... actually that info may have come from a wiki page, so I don't know how reliable it would be. Is that estimate based on your personal experience or some literature?
 
it's not an estimate. it's from a study. personal experience says so as well, but it's useless.
 
does that study list a bunch of different -caine anasthetics perchance? and if so could you find the link or email it to me if its not too much trouble?
 
Yeah, but I've got more than 3000 papers here on psychoactives and chemistry, and unfortunately for some reason they're all saved as .html, though they're actually .pdf's. I need to find a way to go through and rename them all to random.pdf to make them searchable at least. Right now they're all named something like 2022.html, and I can open them with a pdf reader, just fine, but I can't use the windows search feature when they're so named because it looks at them as if they were .html files, and I'm sure you know what happens if you try to open a file as another file type, all the characters are fucked up.
 
^^^
you have to get in the habit of renaming AS SOON as you open them, i have fallen into the same trap with my .pdf library which is full of 'sdarticle-xx.pdf' or whatnot but im changing may ways - its never too soon to start=D if you have a mac you should still be able to search the content of the articles with spotlight though...
 
Not remotely the issue. I have an archive of every article posted to blacklight, and the archival process is at fault, and short of re-doing it (and probably spending just as long), I think a simple program should be able to do it.
 
prevents the propagation of the synchronizing pulse from the sino-arterial node aka pacemaker and can lead to venrticular fibrillation & possible myocardial infarction/

And a lot of people don't realize this, but ventricular fibrillation is a good deal more serious than a mild heart attack.

My father recently died of a heart attack that I'm quite sure was complicated by ventricular fibrillation.

People, take care of your heats. Heart disease is the leading cause of death on earth, and chronic stimulant use isn't doing your ticker any favors, same goes for the excessive use of psychedelic amphetamines.


edit:

I figured I'd add what VF actually is. It's when the electrical signals of your heart are not pulsing correctly, so your heart quivers instead of making the correct pumping action. Death can occur in 90 seconds.
 
Yeah, but I've got more than 3000 papers here on psychoactives and chemistry, and unfortunately for some reason they're all saved as .html, though they're actually .pdf's. I need to find a way to go through and rename them all to random.pdf to make them searchable at least. Right now they're all named something like 2022.html, and I can open them with a pdf reader, just fine, but I can't use the windows search feature when they're so named because it looks at them as if they were .html files, and I'm sure you know what happens if you try to open a file as another file type, all the characters are fucked up.

ugh... that sounds like a hassle... and ha, yeah, i know all about trying to open files as another type... been using that one as a way to buy a little extra time with papers for years
 
I wrote about how this drug affects my blood pressure near mid page. Below that is an OT section about how other things affect/have affected my BP, including an OD/Interaction that raised my BP unbelievably high, making my retinas bleed, causing fluid, swelling, and pain in my lungs, and bursting a vein or something in my stomach or esophagus, causing my vomit to have blood in it. I could delete it. The drugs I am on just make me type away, often ending up with OT stuff that is somehow connected to something I wrote on topic. Ot stuff is in italics

I purchased half a gram of the stuff and smoked it all in two or three days. It gave a powerful, incredibly pleasant rush and very strong euphoria, unfortunately the strongest effects lasted maybe 3 minutes and within 5-8min or so I was ready to load another dose into my pipe and light up. I was guessing by the effects that it might be similar to crack when smoked.

I found today that oxycontin is a lot more fun than poppies. I hope to try oxycontin and dimethocaine together, perhaps with a benzo added. Maybe also methylone or mephedrone. I could take a hit of dimethocaine every 15-20min, let it wear off completely for a few minutes to feel only the other stuff, then take another hit. I'd be worried about doing it like every 10min or less due to a possible substantial rise in BP after a number of hits.

I also did a little test to see how it affected my blood pressure and heart rate. Below is the results:

I measured immediately after smoking as you reach peak in just a few seconds and start coming down just as an estimate, 2-4min after inhalation. My BP was also checked beforehand and was near the middle of its normal range both times. Normal for me being around 136/80 Pulse 81.

Trial one - One hit of dimethocaine - BP 147/91 P95 - This is actually not above my normal stimulant free range, though it is very near what I'd consider the max end of normal(149/95 P100).

Trial two - Four hits 3-7min apart(estimate) - BP 169/100 P113
The second time my BP was considerably higher as was heart rate. I was feeling a rather mild anxiety that might have been partly responsible, but that was certainly not the sole cause. Either it was mostly the drug itself or holding my breath and taking the measurement while I was still catching my breath.

Fortunately, in both cases, my blood pressure dropped down close to the middle of my typical range in a matter of minutes.

I do think the higher elevation in trial two was at least in part caused by holding my breath for about 30sec, starting the test the instant I exhaled, but I also think the drug played a role.

My BP did not reach a level where any complications were likely, especially since it was down to normal in 10min or less.

During my severe panic attacks, my BP often rises to like 175/95 P115(the systolic rises most), usually I think I am dying. The worst panic attack had it about 190/102 P140 when initially tested like 5min after start. After laying down with eyes closed in silence, my systolic dropped down to the 170s. My mom gave me 3 alprazolam pills and both mind and BP were normal about 30min later.

My point in talking about the panic attacks is that they definitely bring my BP and pulse as high or higher than dimethocaine and it stays high several times as long even with a good dose of benzos(without benzos they typically last 2-6 hours unless caused by a psychedelic.

A bad DOI trip had me ranging from fear that I might die to complete certainty that death was minutes away and it didn't even start to get tolerable for over 30 hours(for whatever reason, my BP stayed below 160/90, often being at low end of my typical range, so it was pointless to include that. The drugs I'm on make me want to type the first thing that comes to mind . The info about my panic attacks was just to show that my BP rises more and for longer when I have panic attacks than from smoking dimethocaine, even if the rise from smoking it was entirely from the drug and not affected by breath holding or the mild anxiety I was experiencing right then, and the BP rises from the panic attacks have caused no harm.


I may be wrong, and if anyone knows I am wrong, please correct me.

I think blood pressure almost always has to stay elevated for at least a number of hours and most often days or longer before complications arise, unless it is severely elevated (like 200/110 minimum, and probably even higher and most often even folks in hypertensive urgency(I believe it is defined as 240/120 or higher), recover with no damage and hypertension usually has few if any symptoms until it gets somewhere near that level. I actually once had to be rushed to the ER and my blood pressure tested was 300/200 and they had to give me a drug to lower it fast because my retinas were bleeding, I was developing respiratory problems getting some fluid in lungs due to the severe BP rise and there was apparently some blood in my vomit, Maybe also because it was at an extremely dangerous level. They called it a hypertensive emergency which is usually reserved for when organ damage is occurring or about to occur. I guess my lungs and eyes were at rismI remember feeling pain from breathing at moments My systolic was actually above 300 but I don't know how much. I looked and looked and have only found 3 cases where people had systolic pressures over 300, with one being so high that they could not measure it(above 320). Surprisingly, two made full recoveries. I don't know what became of the other.

I would have probably died from the OD/interaction if my body wasn't habituated to severe hypertension running above 190/125 on average. I hadn't been to the doctor in six or seven years and did not know my BP was high until the trip to the hospital above(large dose of DXM and large dose of ephedra(I started popping the pills as I got sedated, oblivious to the danger in my condition, eating at least six(there were six/pack)and I think 2 or 3 packs - 12 -18 pills w/25mg ephedrine each and some caffeine. The ephedra alone would probably have landed me in the ER in that amount but the DXM probably made it worse. I'm very lucky to both be alive and to not be suffering any permanent damage from that. I should however consider that it worked out for the best. I might have gone years longer without finding out about my BP problem(and very extremely high triglycerides, I think like 20x normal levels before starting med). The high BP could have slowly damaged my heart or gradually weakened a brain blood vessel till it bursted, or caused stroke or heart attack with acute increases due to anger, fear, pain, or something else. Perhaps I'd be damaged or dead if not for that bad drug combo/OD. I'm sure it would have been years more without a doctors visit because I had no insurance and no money to pay.
 
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