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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

dilaudid help!!

potatohead

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
10
hi everyone...i'm totally new to this type of thing and don't really know where to start. my boyfriend is prescribed dilaudid. each and every prescription has run short and he ends up in withdrawal or looking for someone to help him out to avoid it. then he gets his pills back and takes a bunch right away which causes days of vomiting. i've also found needles in the house and pill residue in pill bottle caps. here is the question i have this minute...what would happen if someone took 80 4mg dilaudid? and 4 10mg ambien on top of it. he said he tried to kill himself by doing that and that he woke up, threw up, and then was absolutely fine. i noticed nothing out of the ordinary about him during the time he said he took these pills. honestly, i think it's a story to cover why so many pills are already gone and also to draw my attention away from all the other things that have been happening... i just don't know. i've talked to R.N.s about this and friends with more extensive drug experience than mine and done research online. everywhere says that he would probably die or at least need medical attention. he says that somehow that didn't happen to him. terminally unique. anyone have any real thoughts on this? any help greatly appreciated. i'm losing it over here.
 
Hello,

Your question is a difficult one, as I think it's a problem between you and your friend. However, you're right when you say 80x4mg dilaudid + 40mg zolpidem pills would have killed him. It's an enormous dose wich would probably kill an elephant.
 
thank you for responding. it is definitely a huge problem between he and i. i just can't separate lies from truth anymore and i'm being cast as scapegoat like crazy. i appreciate you taking the time.
 
it absolutely is...the addiction is out of control and i'm not handling things as well as i could be.
 
This is nothing more than an addiction to his Dilaudids. I think you're right about the "suicide story" being a cover because taking 80 4 mg Dilaudid even without the Ambiens is lethal dose. I don't think it will kill an elephant but it would definitely kill a human.

Biologists in the field use carfentanyl and etorphine along with lorazepam to tranquillize elephants (and hippos and rhinos) in big doses to knock them out and they still come out of it. Dilaudids would be like taking M&M's for an elephant.

For smaller mammals like polar bears, grizzly bears, tigers, lions, gorillas, etc they use tiletamine (related to ketamine, it is Schedule III) along with zolazepam in mixture branded as Telazol.
 
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yes...and the addiction is so out of hand there is no such thing as reason anymore. i'm angry and hurt. there's nothing i can do at all. i appreciate the validation on the impossibility of living through a 320mg dose of dilaudid.
 
of course that many dilaudid and ambien can cause death. Tolerance plays a huge roll whether you will spend the morning/evening in the morgue, permanently. i known someone who overdosed from 60mg of methadone (yep 6 pills) and 10mg of klonopin (another 5 pills). me on the other hand can take 4x that much and be fine, because of my tolerance..so everyone is different. insasnely people can develop a tolerance so huge where 40 dilaudid 4's wont even bring them close to death at all
 
This is nothing more than an addiction to his Dilaudids. I think you're right about the "suicide story" being a cover because taking 80 4 mg Dilaudid even without the Ambiens is lethal dose. I don't think it will kill an elephant but it would definitely kill a human.

Biologists in the field use carfentanyl and etorphine along with lorazepam to tranquillize elephants (and hippos and rhinos) in big doses to knock them out and they still come out of it. Dilaudids would be like taking M&M's for an elephant.

For smaller mammals like polar bears, grizzly bears, tigers, lions, gorillas, etc they use tiletamine (related to ketamine, it is Schedule III) along with zolazepam in mixture branded as Telazol.

i just got curious about how u mentioned that they use "carfentanyl and etorphine" are these opioids im assuming? my question is, is this sometimes what dealers use to cut there heroin on the street? reason im asking is because back in my heroin days, it would take me an average 6 bags to get a rush, and not be sick, and there was on occasion a few times where a half a bag got me 20x higher then what 6 bags would do normally, the dope was different in color, and it seemed the half life was way longer, i was high for 2 says on my ass..is this horse/elephant tranquilizer is experienced?
 
i just got curious about how u mentioned that they use "carfentanyl and etorphine" are these opioids im assuming? my question is, is this sometimes what dealers use to cut there heroin on the street? reason im asking is because back in my heroin days, it would take me an average 6 bags to get a rush, and not be sick, and there was on occasion a few times where a half a bag got me 20x higher then what 6 bags would do normally, the dope was different in color, and it seemed the half life was way longer, i was high for 2 says on my ass..is this horse/elephant tranquilizer is experienced?

I highly doubt that any dealer would ever have access to carfentanyl or etorphine. These opioids are so potent that even if a drop of each were to be lace with heroin you'd have people dying left and right. They are used to knock out elephants, hippos, and rhinos. I think giraffes too. Not horses, however. I've heard of other fentanyl analogues being used to cut heroin but definitely not those two.
 
That would be over the top imo. But who knows... How long was he using for?
 
been on pain management. had just run short on meds and spent one day in withdrawal. about four days after that is when he supposedly took 80 pills. i saw him that day. i saw no evidence that he was messed up. he is prescribed 6 4mg/day and 2 8mg extended release hydromorphone.
 
There's no way to know for sure, but I think it's unlikely that this person could have that high a tolerance. For someone to have that high a tolerance, they would have to be using very strong opioids for a long time and have been constantly raising their dose, which would require access to huge amounts of the drugs, or stronger opioids like methadone (probably over 100mg a day) or fentanyl. He would have to be taking close to the equivalent of 320mg Dilaudid on a daily basis in order to have a tolerance so high that taking 320mg of Dilaudid plus 40mg Ambien wouldn't even make him sick or unconscious. If he normally just has his Dilaudid prescription and is always sick at the end of the month, that seems very unlikely. Plus if he had access of other drugs to create that kind of a tolerance, he wouldn't be going sick when he ran out of his Dilaudid.

I have seen this before, where someone would rather say they took all their pills at once as opposed to admit that they have a serious drug addiction. They feel the people in their life will be more compassionate if you think they were suicidal as opposed to being an addict. And that you won't get mad at them if you think they tried to kill themselves.

I think the best thing to do would be to try to get some help and support, and try to make him feel like he can be honest with you and you won't judge him or get angry. You could - in a very friendly and loving way - tell him you know he's been injecting his pills and going through them faster then he's supposed to and you understand it's an addiction and that he has depression and you aren't mad, you just want to be able to understand and support him, and see what he says. If he seems amenable, you could tell him that you'll help him research the options. If he was willing to ask his doctor about getting on a longer-acting opioid that he couldn't inject that could help, as well as if he could get help for the reasons he has an addiction in the first place, such as depression or anxiety - even if he isn't willing to tell his doctor that he has been misusing his pills. What is he on the Dilaudid for in the first place?
 
he's on dilaudid for pain management. stenosis in the neck. we have been over and over this for the last year. literally, maybe ONE or TWO--at the most--prescriptions have gone the way they're supposed to. he admitted he injected when i found a needle last october and claimed it was an isolated incident. i found another one in the last month. honestly, i think he's been injecting on and off this whole time. he's been through withdrawal almost ten times in a year and gets sick every time he goes back on his meds--pukes and pukes--this time for days. we have been to meetings. he is in therapy. he will admit he has a problem one minute and the next i am an a**hole and i don't know what the f**k i'm talking about. he has lied more times than i can count or know about. he goes from wanting me to be involved completely in the medication stuff so we can both feel better to hiding his pills and saying they're his to take and "to overtake" if he wants. i've tried every approach and now i am just so hopeless and worn out.
 
Well I guess you need to decide whether this relationship is too damaging/stressful for you to be in, or you want to offer him unconditional love and support and try to make it work. If you want to stay with him, you will have to accept that he may never change. You can't change him so all you can do is change your behaviour towards him and try to be as kind, loving, understanding and supportive as possible - really that is the biggest thing a partner of an addict can do to help them.

Meetings and therapy are a good start, how is his therapy going? Does he seem to be getting any real help? Is he being treated for depression, anxiety, or any other mental health issues?

Why is he still on Dilaudid? Surely they could prescribe him a longer-acting non-injectable drug for his pain.

What kind of treatment is he getting for his stenosis? Is he doing physical therapy? Have they considered surgery?
 
i really don't know how the therapy is progressing. he says it goes well, but i'm not sure what he's really telling the therapist. he has been prescribed cymbalta by his PCP to try to help with pain AND depression issues...he has anxiety and depression issues, yes. he tried to blame the "suicide attempt" on the cymbalta, yet he didn't stop taking it. it makes no sense. he also said he filled out a new patient packet for a neck specialist to see if there is anything that can be done to minimize the pain meds and/or fix the problem. he is prescribed 2 8mg exalgo--the extended release hydropmorphone--in addition to 6 4mg per day. supposedly, he was supposed to increase the time release and lower the tablets...i've seen nothing like that. if anything, his overall dose has increased. i have tried so hard to be supportive and listen and do what i can to be there...i've done well considering some of the circumstances. but now i am so angry at all the lies and all the times this is happening and never changing that i am adding to the problem. thank you so much for taking the time to read this stuff and respond so thoughtfully. this is not something i can just talk to any friend about...for obvious reasons.
 
No problem at all :) The Dark Side forum here on Bluelight is an excellent place for support as well (just make sure to read their guidelines before posting there).

So are you wanting to stick with him or are you considering ending the relationship?

What about maybe going to therapy together? Would that be something he might be willing to do? And it would be really good for you to get some support as well. Talking to people online is a great start, it's really important to have someone to talk to about it, but going to therapy or meetings by yourself would be good. I also recommend reading some books on addiction, so you can better understand his problem and how to best support a loved one with an addiction (I can give you some titles if you're interested). You could also have a gentle talk with him about whether he is willing to change his medication to something less abusable, but don't try to force him. I'm assuming his doctor has no idea that he misuses his meds?

Try not to be too angry at him, I know it's very frustrating and stressful, as I have been in a position where I was not using drugs and had an addicted boyfriend, but I have also been an addict myself, so I understand both sides. The lies are not to hurt you, they are because he feels ashamed, and also because his addicted brain does not want him to be in a position where he doesn't get his pills anymore. Try to have some compassion for him because being an addict is miserable and no one chooses it, and he probably feels terrible about it and really doesn't mean to hurt you. He probably started off taking it for the pain and then found that when he would take it his anxiety and depression was relieved. The problem is, in the long run it ends up making you feel more depressed and anxious, and your tolerance goes up, and you have to deal with the hell of withdrawals when you don't have any drugs.

There is definitely hope for him if he wants to get help, but you can't make someone change before they aren't ready, so if you want to be with him you will have to accept him the way he is. I found that the biggest help for me was having a partner who was totally supportive and non-judgmental and made me feel loved and comfortable being honest without fear of anger, punishment or expectations. You are still allowed to have feelings about his behaviour and how it affects you of course, and I understand how difficult it can be to be in your situation. But if every time you talk about his drug use you get mad or try to make him stop, he is going to not want to talk to you about it at all. Other things that helped me were working on my mental issues and trying to change my way of thinking, learning how to recognize and deal with cravings, and finding other non-drug treatments for my pain (I have chronic pain as well).

Hugs <3
 
I highly doubt that any dealer would ever have access to carfentanyl or etorphine. These opioids are so potent that even if a drop of each were to be lace with heroin you'd have people dying left and right. They are used to knock out elephants, hippos, and rhinos. I think giraffes too. Not horses, however. I've heard of other fentanyl analogues being used to cut heroin but definitely not those two.

Correct those opioids are so strong that when researchers are making them, they not only have to wear full (and I mean full feet to head and back down again) suits that the chemicals can't get through... they are also required to all carry syringes and a SHIT LOAD of narcan incase someone accidently gets the tiniest drop of carfentanyl or etorphine (and we're talking a drop literally invisible to the human eye), because it will go right through their skin and they'll die immediately... unless their co-working hits them with an outrageously necessary dose of narcan... that's how potent and scary those are.

As far as your husband.. Sure he could have said he was trying to kill himself but you have to understand and come to terms with the facts:

1. He took 320mg IV dilaudid (i'm assuming it's IV) and a bunch of ambien.
2. He said he was trying to kill himself and that's why so many pills were missing.
3. You suspect the line about killing himself was just an excuse as to why he doesn't have any pills left.
4. The fact that he took that much and did not die means he has an insanely insane tolerance, and that means he must use a LOT.
5. Were he really trying to kill himself, and not trying to chase a high, and he was opiate naive or at least didn't take doses that high regularly, then yeah that many would have killed him,no doubt in my mind at all. But because it didn't kill him it tells me he's used to doses like that. People taking their meds responsibly who took that much, WOULD die, they wouldn't wake up and say "ahhhh man I was trying to die". They would die.

Sorry, he's lying. Drugs do that to people. But I'll tell you right now, if you love him, and want him back the way he used to be, then aggressive, angry and disappointed behavior will make him feel worse, and guess what he'll head straight for. Tough love doesn't work for junkies because it adds to their stress and desire get high to get numb. Be supportive, tell him you love him, tell him if he loves you he needs to stop, tell him you understand he cant stop all at once but tell him the needles have to go. Quitting opiates when you don't use needles is unrealistically easier (well compared to quitting when you're on the needle) to do. Ween him down a few pills at a time,, with his tolerance I'd say 5 pills a day minimum... remember you want him to have enough medication to keep him from going mad and getting violently ill, but at the sametime you want him to be physically uncomfortable with minor but liveable withdrawal.. that'll make the process quicker, and trust me, by day 3 his cravings won't nearly as bad, plus he'l be off the stuff much faster. When tapering it'sgood to take just enough to keep off seriously withdrawal, but allow minor withdrawal set in so your brain chemistry resets back to normal much faster., tell him you're proud of him when he makes progress and eventually,hopefully, he'll be able to quit (the taper will rid him of his w/d's when it's done) and your affection will keep him going. He will be tempted down the road, I promise you this, but if you don't yell at him, leave him, or otherwise give up on him and make him feel like life just gets shittier and shittier, he will get better. I promise.
 
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I'm guessing he was a drug addict before. Chronic pain pt's do sometimes develop addictions, but as a CPP that's a relatively low dose IMO. CPP's also don't shoot drugs, especially when their prescribed doses are low enough that the temptation of the needle just isn't there. Infact the tempation of the needle comes when you're trying to get high and higher and higher and can't anymore, so you start shooting. I would bet a lot that he shot drugs before he was prescribed these meds and if he wasa drug addict who "developed pain" or has always had pain but "suddenly it got worse", then I'm sorry he's not really in pain, he's just making it up to get pills. Someone with his prescription and painlevel as a CPP would simply not shoot.
 
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