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Phenethylamines Differences between San Pedro and peyote?

polarthedog

polarthedog

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May 30, 2021
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Obviously they’re two different species of cactus (I guess San Pedro would be a collection of species), though I want to know the more specific differences in alkaloid profile and psychedelic effects between the different species of psychedelic mescaline-containing cacti.

On another note, how does pure mescaline feel compared to psychedelic cacti?
 
I have never had any cacti...so i cant compare.What i can tell you though is I had Mescaline HCL 500mg capsule....blew my head off my shoulders...now ive heard ppl in the past say mescaline is a 'mild' trip ...maybe its milder from cacti and other alkaloids present ...but i didnt find anything mild about synthetic mescaline....in1974
 
AussieJoe said:
I have never had any cacti...so i cant compare.What i can tell you though is I had Mescaline HCL 500mg capsule....blew my head off my shoulders...now ive heard ppl in the past say mescaline is a 'mild' trip ...maybe its milder from cacti and other alkaloids present ...but i didnt find anything mild about synthetic mescaline....in1974
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Anyone that says that, hasn’t had enough Mescaline..

My brother is a hard head, he can eat a 10 strip of bomb L and still be keeping it together. Last weekend me and him tripped on Mescaline and we were fucking gone. For 3hrs I felt like I was going up, up, UP! I hardly remember much of it but to say it was epic.


To OP/Polar, while I haven’t had Peyote yet (hope to once in my life) I have studied it extensively as well as taken plenty of Mescaline from other cacti. Peyote has additional alkaloids which can add more visuals, increase duration and overall add a bit of mindfuck you may not find as much with San Pedro.

San Pedro comes in two basic forms, either PC Pedro (predominate cultivar) and traditional Pedros. 9 out of 10 Pedros used to be PC but that may be changing. Unless specified, assume it’s a PC. PC’s grow faster, have a lighter green color with thinner skin, and are much weaker than traditional Pedro’s.

-GC
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
San Pedro feels more tranquil. Maybe sleepy a little bit. I thinks there are some sedative alkaloids in it. Don't know what they are.
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Relevant ☞ Alkaloids of the Peyote Plant

cosmosmariner said:
I’ve had the honor of doing peyote 4 times.
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When you say "honor" do you mean that because someone was kind enough to gift or sell you some of their cactus buttons, or is the honor to you just in having the opportunity to use Peyote given its relative obscurity and oftentimes profound insight?

cosmosmariner said:
I have only done mescaline once. It was different. Hard to explain why.
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Yeah they're certainly different, though the trip still centers around the effects of a large-ish dose of 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine (Mescaline). Peyote has an entourage of related chemicals though that no doubt flavor and affect the subjective, qualitative effects. I think it's interesting to note how Peyote has present among these constituents 3,4-methylenedioxyphenethylamine (MDPEA). Note the 3,4-methylenedioxy benzene ring is also present in 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). There are a few of these compounds, in fact, along with a baker's dozen 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamines that are probably all mostly active, or if not individually, then in concert with one another. But I'm also making an educated guess here. Still, it's cool stuff going on with this.

G_Chem said:
it was in a session context and I don’t often trip with strangers.
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Yeah I know what you mean. A person has to be willing to place themselves in a state of vulnerability in order to get the most from what psychedelics have to offer and to grow. That takes courage and forethought regarding set & setting, and even then you can't factor in for everything, all incidentals or weird goings-on that always seem to precipitate at the moment I'm peaking :LOL: … you know how it goes…

polarthedog said:
though I want to know the more specific differences in alkaloid profile and psychedelic effects between the different species of psychedelic mescaline-containing cacti.
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Check out the above link to get an idea of where to research those specifics. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I've seen them. Seek and ye shall find.

polarthedog said:
On another note, how does pure mescaline feel compared to psychedelic cacti?
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It feels… cleaner and like it's glowing white hot inside of you – in a good way – and its enveloping and stimulating, sometimes a little nauseating, but Peyote is sometimes very nauseating. Idk, I hate to be this generic and corny-sounding, but this is simply true what they say – you know how mushrooms often feel more "organic" in terms of qualitative effects while LSD feels more synthetic? Yeah so Peyote is more organic feeling and Mescaline feels like it was forged from electricity by a shamanic scientist. Could be expectation, and maybe I'm furthering said expectations in others, sowing those mental seeds with my words now as you read them, so keep an open mind to the possibility that YMMV.
 
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Been a while since I was a cactus man but san pedro has far fewer alkaloids than peyote - pedro has something like 7 while peyote has 50+. Whether that has any effect I'm not sure. I've never tried peyote - and I wouldn't because it's almost extinct in the wild now. If you ever want to try cactus buy the smallest amount of san pedro you can and see if you can drink it first. It's 90% certain you will take your first sip, gip several times and throw it away. It's about as easy as eating dogshit with ketchup.

I've had the pure powder that's being sold as mescaline - supposed to be genuine - but I'm not sure it was. It was nothing like cactus - I thought it was some research phenethylamine being sold as mescaline. Cactus is very laid back, the gentlest psychedelic I've had. Emphasises greens and brown colours and beautiful for electric guitar. The stuff that was sold as mescaline was a very intense 2c-b type trip - I was basically pinned to the couch.
 
Ismene2 said:
If you ever want to try cactus buy the smallest amount of san pedro you can and see if you can drink it first. It's 90% certain you will take your first sip, gip several times and throw it away. It's about as easy as eating dogshit with ketchup.
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To clarify, one can purchase a living san pedro cactus, or one can obtain dry, powdered clippings of san pedro. Obviously, don't break the law, but for some who live where this is legal, they extract mescaline from the plant matter in a manner similar to extracting DMT from certain plant sources. The chlorophyl is a pain in the ass and there are quite a bit of plant-matter lipids to remove via de-fatting during an acid/base extraction. The overall yield is pretty low, but reasonably pure mescaline.hcl can be isolated from san pedro clippings with some delicate kitchen chemistry and extraction know-how. This certainly beats skinning, de-spining, and peeling a san pedro, making a gross-tasting cactus smoothie from the pulp, choking it down and vomiting some back up within the hour… just to trip.

"Dogshit with ketchup" is hilarious :LOL: … while that's an entertaining description, I think of it a little differently. It's bad, but maybe not that bad. To me, it's more like if someone blended together string beans, kale, and yard grass, then mixed that w/warm, full-pulp OJ and a couple drops of vinegar, then blended it in a Vitamix until it had the consistency of soupy oatmeal. Oh and one has to down something like ~32 ounces (~1L) of the stuff. Yuck. To me, this makes it worth the effort to refine the extraction process and minimize the yuck factor.

As to the alkaloidal content: "The San Pedro cactus contains a number of alkaloids, including the well-studied chemical mescaline (from 0.053% up to 4.7% of dry cactus weight), and also 3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine, 3-Methoxytyramine, 4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenethylamine, 4-hydroxy-3,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine, anhalonidine, anhalinine, hordenine, and tyramine."

G_Chem said:
Unless specified, assume it’s a PC. PC’s grow faster, have a lighter green color with thinner skin, and are much weaker than traditional Pedro’s.
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Yes, I've anecdotally found this to be true. Definitely the strongest San Pedros I've had were a dark green with patches of purple in it.
 
perpetualdawn said:
The biggest difference between them is that with one, you're likely contributing to the extinction of a beautiful and endangered plant, with the other you're eating an abundant and fast-growing cactus.
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Well, according to the International Union for the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN), Lophophora williamsii is identified as "threatened" though not "endagered" yet (EDIT ☞ source). However, it is trending toward becoming endangered, so your concern is valid. However, by the time it's in the hands of the consumer, the damage has been dealt. The thing to encourage is that people not over-harvest the plant. I know you can argue that purchasing San Pedro only encourages others to continue over-harvesting it, but I'm afraid that will likely continue, and I doubt it will ever go fully extinct given its psychoactive alkaloidal content.

If one wants to eat peyote, they shouldn't go to Texas/Mexico and find some growing wild. It's better to cultivate one's own or procure some from a person who cultivates it themselves for consumption. On its own, the Peyote cactus can take up to 125 years to reach full maturity, and a generation is considered 50 years, I believe… When it's cultivated for consumption, peyote is grafted onto the stump of a freshly harvested San Pedro. Once grafted, the peyote will grow at the same rate as the San Pedro, reaching maturity in about two to three years instead of decades later.
 
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unodelacosa said:
However, by the time it's in the hands of the consumer, the damage has been dealt.
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I don't think you're quite saying that the consumer is blameless, but I hope it's obvious that that would be no excuse. Using that logic you could justify buying ivory, because the elephant has already been killed, or sharkfin soup. But of course there wouldn't be a market for these things if there was no consumer demand.

If one wants to eat peyote, they shouldn't go to Texas/Mexico and find some growing wild. It's better to cultivate one's own or procure some from a person who cultivates it themselves for consumption. On its own, the Peyote cactus can take up to 125 years to reach full maturity, and a generation is considered 50 years, I believe… When it's cultivated for consumption, peyote is grafted onto the stump of a freshly harvested San Pedro. Once grafted, the peyote will grow at the same rate as the San Pedro, reaching maturity in about two to three years instead of decades later.
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Yes! This is the way - if someone wants to eat peyote, make sure source it from your own homegrown or someone else's non-wild farm/growery. People do amazing things with grafting onto S.P., or even Pereskiopsis (a true cactus that looks more like a succulent):
0401762f9f820b491938fb8c11633415.jpg

Unless you're Huichol or something, please take no peyote from the wild.

I have guilt because many years ago I ate peyote straight out of the desert, and I really had no right. So now I bend backwards to discourage others from doing it too, maybe I can correct my mistake and help protect this amazing and beautiful plant a bit by reaching out about it on the internet. I've eaten both Peyote and San Pedro from the wild, and they were equally amazing and beautiful experiences, there's no good reason to not just use San Pedro/Peruvian for cactus medicine since it grows so easily and is so much more abundant.

In south-east Asia peyote is cultivated by cactus aficionados for its beauty. You can buy it on the internet there, it's not for tripping (it would be really expensive anyways) but for people's cactus garden collections. The refer to it by its genus name "Lophophora". I've noticed it openly sold in Indonesia where they have really harsh drug laws, and in Thailand where the drug laws have loosened up a lot lately. Probably around in Malaysia and Vietnam too but I'm not sure.

Grow your own peyote or SP and have your own traditional solar-powered mescaline factory!
 
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unodelacosa said:
When you say "honor" do you mean that because someone was kind enough to gift or sell you some of their cactus buttons, or is the honor to you just in having the opportunity to use Peyote given its relative obscurity and oftentimes profound insight?
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I was invited by a Uicholl shaman to partake.
 
perpetualdawn said:
I don't think you're quite saying that the consumer is blameless, but I hope it's obvious that that would be no excuse. Using that logic you could justify buying ivory, because the elephant has already been killed, or sharkfin soup.
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That's different; that attaches animal suffering to the matter. Also, most consumers will not have the luxury of fully knowing their source, so how can someone know if the peyote in front of them was from over-harvesting a natural resource or the product of a grow operation meant for consumption of the product?

No, don't buy ivory from poachers and encourage their activity. However, if you come across an antique piano or other piece of furniture that contains ivory, I don't think there's any need to check one's moral inventory if they purchase said piece. That damage was dealt long ago. Why be wasteful now over principle? At the same time, I don't blame people for taking a stance against a thing in this manner, no more than I give vegans a hard time for their dietary choices, even if I don't share them.

Is the consumer blameless? No, probably not. I think the main thing we agree on is that people need to source peyote from a grow operation as best they can to avoid disturbing natural habitats of this cactus.
perpetualdawn said:
I have guilt because many years ago I ate peyote straight out of the desert, and I really had no right.
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You had every right. These things are here for a reason, and I'll bet you've more than made up for it by now simply through educating people. But think about it – perhaps that's why the cactus was there in the first place; to be discovered and consumed so it can enlighten. Absolve yourself from that guilt, friend. I assure you the plant has no hard feelings about the matter :)

perpetualdawn said:
Grow your own peyote or SP and have your own traditional solar-powered mescaline factory!
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"Solar-powered", lol. That reminds me of the solar-powered clothes dryer (it's a clothes line), and the uselessness of a solar-powered flashlight :LOL:
 
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