Difference in effects from serotonin and dopamine

[infinite_phi]

Hello there BlueLight,

Frequently I hear people saying that they can feel their serotonin or dopamine levels being low.

From what I understand, both hormones contribute to a general happy mood, but serotonin contributes more to cognitive factors and dopamine contributing more to liking and ability to focus, but that's about everything I can find.

The reason I'm interested in this is because I'm planning on taking MDMA with 1mg of selegiline (a selective MAO-b inhibitor) to reduce neurotoxic effects. As selegiline reduces the rate of breakingdown of dopamine, this would result in higher levels of dopamine. MDMA increases dopamine as well as serotonin, so to compensate for these higher dopamine levels, I'll be taking less MDMA than I otherwise would. Logically this will result in a higher dopamine:serotonin ratio than when MDMA is taken on it's own.

I am wondering how more dopamine and less serotonin will change the effects of the MDMA-experience. Will higher dopamine make the experience more speedy and a little less "full of love"? I care mostly for the love effects of MDMA and I don't care for the speedy effects. In fact, I like to chill and reflect upon the so many positive things in live. I'm concerned I won't experience the true "MDMA love" when using this combination and have much more feelings of excessive energy instead of happyness.

Is there anyone who can shed some light on how the effects of increased serotonin differ from the effects of increased dopamine or has taken MDMA together with selegiline once and noticed a difference in effect?

I'm also wondering in which way MDMA (potentially used together with selegiline) increases levels of oxytocin, because he heard that MDMA exerts its love effects through increasing the levels of this hormone.

Thanks

 

[Methox23]

No need to use SWIM

SWIM - Someone who isn't me (Use of this term is discouraged on BL; it is used on some forums in an attempt to avoid incriminating oneself, e.g. "SWIM is considering manufacturing meth, what does SWIM need to know?". There is no evidence that this provides any protection from legal repercussions, and it makes your posts hard to follow. Also, many people switch between "SWIM" and "I" in the same post. Finally, you shouldn't be incriminating yourself (drug synthesis, dealing, etc) on Bluelight anyway)

 

[neurotic]

why would you want to mix MDMA with a MAOI? isn't that dangerous? i don't think MAOIs mix well with stimulants...

MDMA is a releasing agent of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin. dopamine and norepinephrine are responsible for the stimulation, both physical and mental. think regular stimulants like cocaine, amphetamine... classical stimulants work mostly by raising levels of DA/NE. dopamine though is said to be linked more to the 'mental' stimulation, confidence and euphoria while norepinephrine is related to the physical stimulation that makes you jittery, shaky... bad side-effects.

MDMA causes a huge release of serotonin, which then causes an overactivation of serotonin receptors. some stimulants also raise serotonin levels (coke and amp do iirc) but nowhere as near as MDMA. specifically the 5HT1A receptor when activated increases oxytocin levels, at least this was observed when they gave a 5HT1A agonist to rats.

so the loved-up feelings are all about serotonin (specifically the 5HT1A receptor), while stimulation is all about DA/NE

 

[phatass]

If you're reasonable in your dosing of MDMA, theres no need to mix in another drug, that, from what you explain has significant repercussions on your serotonin and dopamine levels. Just take the MDMA, at a reasonable dose, and not too often (a few times a year ideally, not more), and IMHO toxicity shouldn't be a significant problem....

 

[BlueBull]

I would certainly not mix those two. Selegiline is a selective MAO-b inhibitor, yes, but it shifts its specificity either in large doses or by influencing factors. For instance women who take oral contraceptives see an increase in bioavailability by 10-20 fold which in turn causes the specificity to shift in favor of MAO-a. If that should happen for some reason you are unaware of, and you have in my opinion no way to be absolutely sure it won't, you are in big big trouble. That's a recipe for serotonin toxicity and eventually serotonin syndrome, people have died from being unaware MAO-a should not be inhibited when ingesting MDMA

Furthermore I don't know whether or not something comparable could happen with MAO-b inhibition combined with MDMA. Granted the levels of dopamine are not that much increased if you compare it to the serotonin increase but still I think this is not a good idea

If you want to know what MAO-a inhibition + MDMA does to a person, read this

A quick search on the forums also shows a vast number of people advising very strongly against this combo I see.

I would not try this man, this is a very bad idea