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"Did I trade Oxy for Kratom? Am I still addicted? EDIT: YES. FML" Rant

L

locohooter

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
21
About six weeks ago I went into the hospital for a medical detox. I came out with an erased mind and a horrible case of PAWS or secondary w/ds, whatever we wanna call it. Found kratom on the forums and it seems to have saved me somewhat but now, six weeks later, I'm taking about 15 grams/day - I can't feel anything but relief from the restless legs and complete fatigue. I have no idea what it feels like except lately I'm trying to dose once a day in the morning, or sometime just evening, and every day around 6pm my body starts to feel an "electrical current"-like crappy inner restlessness that isn't kicking the sheets restless, but like my pulse of blood flowing through my legs - often just my left leg.

I feel blessed that I built myself a business and relationship amongst the haze of 15-20 30s prescribed that I was popping, each and every one full of guilt for ages, and now I have to enter my life again, manage people, peeps that saved my ass just by doing their job and most are aware now of what is up with me - can't fake good that well. Sleep schedule is off - my hours are 11am to 4am - and phenibut has entered the picture, but again, four days and I have no clue what that feels like, only that I'm sleeping better. I'm afraid of addictions but keep taking addictive legal 'stuff'rationalizing. Just writing this and I can see what is up here.

I was afraid of extending the PAWS but now don't care so long as I don't feel crappy. I don't know if the evening fatigue and "electricity" is still detox or kratom w/d. I do know that after taking magnesium supplements my legs calmed down, this morning, and were comfortable when I woke up for the first time. I also know that when I mustered up enough energy to go for a haircut (actually finally gave a shit about me) short of the anxiety of having to talk to someone for a half-hour the head massage was amazing (with a hot towel on my face, damn amazing!).

I think I'm stuck on kratom and I don't even feel it. All I seem to do is take something to make physical discomfort go away. For years. Never take enough to get messed up, just enough to not physically drop. Mentally I'm always kind of fine. I think I gave up on getting high ages ago. Cravings are nill. Kratom? Take it or leave it i thought but I bought a ton so I maintain this BS and now I'm lying here bc I just thought that I should buy pounds when typing that. My daily excitement is trying a different strain or mix of strains <-- addict.

FML. I just want to feel normal again. I literally took what they said at face value: 5 days and you walk out of the hospital just fine 'n dandy followed by some counseling because I'm an addict. Lurked here for years but never new what TDS was. Now I read it more than my ex-Facebook habit (really uninteresting after being here) ever was (and I think most of us are guilty of a bad FB habit at some point, at least until you realize they're all highlights).

Good side of all this? DirecTV Platinum Package finally used. And got my money's worth of Netflix. Smoke a lot less cigarettes.

And all I seem to want to talk about are the lies I told everyone. Anyone else do that? Talk about all the sneaking around when you dirty?

And that business - I sell medical marijuana. And I don't even like weed. But most of my patients are prescribed opiates. I want to help them. All of them.

I see it that I have it easy though. Real easy. And I want to hang with all of you that are depressed - want to give y'all a big hug. Watch some TV. I know that feeling.

FMCleanHumbledL. Wouldn't change it for another. I look forward to feeling healthy - maybe tomorrow's the day.

Needed to rant here. Thanks BL for the spot.
 
could be a lot worse tho couldn't it? if Kratom keeps your life stable and you out of pain then you may as well just take it or taper off of it slowly. Kratom doesn't last long so you are going to have to take it 2-3 times a day depending on strain.

how long has it been since you last used a real opiate? 6 weeks? i'd think the restless legs would be long gone by now. I can't deal with PAWS either and kratom at least kills my cravings and gets rid of some of the withdrawal. I don't really get high anymore either, just sort of maintain with slight mood boost and a bit less anxiety.

good luck, i'm sure things will get better and better here on out
 
I used kratom for about 4 months after I tapered off a large poppy pod habit of over 3 years. I think that in the first few weeks of using kratom I was still having the after effects, WDs or PAWS or whatev from the poppies, after that, the kratom was enough for me. But I too got addicted. Or stayed addicted. Again: whatev.

So, after a bout 4 months, and all while hiding this from gf and from my brothers in AA, I finally just quit the kratom and got completely clean for the first time since I was in my teens. I'm 36 now. I've been clean now for 34 days, from the legal shit too.

The kratom did help me through I think, but it wasn't sustainable, and after a while couldn't give me the buss I wanted and was just keeping me OK. I was afraid that when I quit it would be like it was coming off the poppies, which was hell. Whenever I would run out of kratom or get low before my next shipment, I'd start to feel the same kind of things from the poppy WD. But when I did get ready to say EFF IT, flush the kratom and just deal with my kick, it wasn't as bad as I'd thought it would be.

I missed 3 days of work, a Thursday, Friday and Saturday and was OK to go back to work Monday, though still not feeling so good. The worst was a couple of nights of insomnia and no appetite, shits, chills, sweats, but nothing even close to the misery of coming off poppy pods.

When you get ready to quit kratom, just face the kick. You've been through tons worse and you can do it on your own. I'll write more about it later. I gotta get to work.

If you're not in AA or NA, I highly recommend it. There's no point in being miserable and sober. Fuck that. And people think 12 step programs are for staying sober. Not really. They're for getting us happy and comfortable with being sober. And that's how we can actually stay sober. For this alcoholic/addict anyway: if you take my drink and drugs away and don't give me something better (AA) then I'm going to drink and use again. Just a matter of time.

More later, hang in there.

Peace,
podsnomo
 
i can tell you WD is horrible but also be weary of right after kicking a drug you get kinda clouded thoughts and you might feel like fessing up about everything wrong you ever did but hold off until your level headed... I went through about 2 months of serious WD from OP's I was weened off with benzos for 8 days detox then went to a halfway house....

2 months of shit sleep, weak bowls, weak body, tired all the time, legs cramping hurting, horrible shacking. DT's. I came off booze and pills... horrible combo horrible WD but it can take along time to get back to normal and at some point you have to quit all drugs at least for 2months to get the chemicals out of you that have building up over the years..

My advise if you want to feel normal treat your body like normal (good food, exercise, and no drugs) its harder at first but it gets more easy as you go day by day....

It may get worse for a week but then it gets better just quit drugs.
 
Thanks guys... Much appreciated words.

Looking back at what I wrote, things aren't as bad as I think they are. At times it's been overwhelming; I think we all know this roller coaster we call detox. Even a few days ago until now I can feel it all emptying out of me. Every day gets better.

I just had my first clear headed day and, the truth is the first thing I did this morning was toss n wash about 7 grams and puked it up about 30 minutes later - my body doesn't want the kratom in my system. It was a quick two minutes in front of the toilet and I was out of the house clear headed all day with none of it.

I don't know if I'm in doubt
 
SO, locohooter, how goes it now? I hope you're still enjoying being clean and the often trudging, but always better road, of being clean.

If you slipped, fess up mate. If you're still facing the world clean, let us know that too.

No one judges here. Hope you're well friend!
 
RLS mainly affects my left leg too.

It sounds like whatever medical provider treated you thought a "spin dry" (5 days of detox) and some nominal follow-up was adequate in addressing your addiction. Shitty. Inpatient rehab does make the difference in a lot of cases, but since they didn't grant you that option maybe you should try out NA, if nothing else then to fill your free time. I agree with podsnomo, whether it's a 12 step program or something else, you need to replace the addiction w/ something meaningful. Sobriety doesn't sustain itself; in a lot of ways, you have to cultivate it.

Perhaps your mounting kratom dependence is eclipsed in your body by the recent larger oxy addiction. It would probably be best to taper off the kratom as soon as you can, or even try a short term suboxone taper (5-7 days). Either way, you sound like an individual who is going to be in active addiction, or not addicted to anything at all, including cigarettes and kratom.

Best of luck and hope you are doing well.
 
locohooter said:
Thanks guys... Much appreciated words.

Looking back at what I wrote, things aren't as bad as I think they are. At times it's been overwhelming; I think we all know this roller coaster we call detox. Even a few days ago until now I can feel it all emptying out of me. Every day gets better.

I just had my first clear headed day and, the truth is the first thing I did this morning was toss n wash about 7 grams and puked it up about 30 minutes later - my body doesn't want the kratom in my system. It was a quick two minutes in front of the toilet and I was out of the house clear headed all day with none of it.

I don't know if I'm in doubt
Click to expand...

Hey man, I have a question if you don't mind me asking. How did drugs (your case, oxy) help you in building a business? I'm asking because I've been doing this and somewhat, my DOC (opiate) helped. Would be great hearing your story if you don't mind sharing it (e.g. what's your industry, how oxy helped dealing with loneliness, insomnia etc). You also seem to have been successful in that you have made quite a lot of money out of your business, so it'd be great hearing how you coped with an addiction and made it help you to become successful.
Thanks!
 
The thought of not having my opiate receptors tickled for the rest of my life is a scary one. I also think that sooner or later, I'm going to get kratom and most likely use it every day. The only thing though, is that when I used it before like that, sometimes I wouldnt get a package in time or something goes wrong and I try to get other opiates "to fill in the down time" and it all goes down hill. I wouldnt mind if I was on it for a while as long as I always had it. (obviously). But like RobotRipping said, its not the WORSE choice.
 
^always always always keep a large stock. I've learned this after many benzo/opiate withdrawals due to unreliable mailman.

there are other ways to tickle those opiate receptors than just drugs :)
 
Lol yea I get that adrenaline rush when i hear that funny little roar sound coming from the baby usps mail truck lol its so different from USPS and FEDEX its hilarious. It sucks bigtime to be waiting for it when its SUPPOSED to come, and then BAM you got the weekend to wait on. Yea the only thing right now is money...

Locohooter, you are functioning at least (and REAL well! ) Also, its easier to not over do kratom then it is to not over do easily crushable, popable, smokable Oxy lol
 
Still being new to the forums, I missed this thread until just now. Sorry about not responding, especially from the support y'all are offering.

So for slip-ups, yes, I have. Minimal, but had that pink elephant in my world of not doing any opiates so I took a 5mg oxy once and a 5mg vicodin (seperate times) for some odd stupid thought that I didn't have to hold onto this big number of days off of opiates. I'm not sure why, I just felt the pressure inside myself, like I had to keep good with myself with counting days; I don't feel that way anymore, I now like the days.

Right now I am just having the first feeling of kratom after having it in the house and doing it here and there to rid RLS. I guess I'm still taking something to feel something which is either the failure of living opiate free or is a once in a while treat. It's the first real relief I've had in a few days that were inundated with a horrible phenibut experience - I recommend no one EVER take that shit. The kratom buzz right now feels a little guilty, though. I wouldn't want to say to anyone in my life that I feel like this right now. I didn't expect it, but it's here. It's times like this that I now realize I'm probably extending the PAWS. Or I should just let myself enjoy it (sorry, thinking out loud).

Asked (and answered) above, my business is cannabis. I opened up my first shop three years ago and I'm pretty sure I remember living with a LOT of anxiety, from helping the patients and having to be 'on' to always watching my back (police, city, thieves, being followed by any of those, even phone calls with friends that I had to curb their vocabulary). In 2000 I lived in San Francisco for a little bit and did my laundry near a dispensary. I remember thinking that no amount of money is worth risking my freedom, but found myself with nothing but a few open credit cards and no job and had to do something in '09. I know for sure that the oxy habit helped me cope with all of the anxiety - I probably wouldn't have done the business as well, or was willing to max out my credit cards and throw everything I had into the business if I had a straight head. Or maybe I would have, but it certainly helped me maintain a happy "it's going to work out" attitude amidst the chaos that is the cannabis industry. Even with it recently being legalized here and potentially having huge opportunities ahead, it's a crazy time to be doing what I'm doing. The VERY clear difference now is that I couldn't succeed in the future if I wasn't as clear as I am now. And reading this post before submitting, I'm sure I would have done better if I was clean - it's still operating though, and without me there. And no, it isn't a quick $1m... I'm still in loads of credit card debt, life ain't that easy in this game. I'm confident it'll get there and it will happen real quickly, but I'm still investing into it.

For me, the most important part of all of this - my mind is clear. I know that if I did kratom tonight that I still have the addict in me that looks to a substance to feel different. I do have the judgement to not take it every day nor do I want to. I don't do it every day like I was a month ago. It's not that amazing of a feeling - it's relief from what I think are phenibut withrdrawals (another drug I never felt and ended up addicted to) and recent brand-new anxiety attacks that are set off by my alarm in the morning amongst other things, even when I'm not anxious. My body just starts to run, I feel stoned, heart's beating fast, and it just goes - doesn't scare me, just annoying to feel stoned in the middle of the day when I'm working (why I was using phenibut instead of the prescribed xanax that I was afraid my body would 'pick up' = get addicted to without me even knowing).

Being stuck on at least 12 30's a day with often 20 pill days and very rarely 8 pill days, it's amazing to be out of that game. I've had the opportunity to have a 30 and it was an easy "no". There's no way I want to be in that world. And I don't want to be in the kratom world either - again, until tonight, I never felt any of it. This is a nice buzz (4g, was just trying to calm down anxiety and RLS, again, didn't try or expect to actually get high <--- do i sound guilty) and I'd choose it over a couple of beers at home, but I couldn't operate at work or be very sociable with this buzz. It IS more than a buzz than I got off of the oxy for at least the last year - I was maintaining plus a nod or two at night (and only if I had a cigarette to get that nod which wasn't very euphoric). I know I was over the oxy way before the detox, emotionally at least. It did make life "even" or better said, dull. No big ups and no big downs. But not much of a life as many of you know. Just slowly killing ourselves amongst the host of other issues that I now have to deal with (like extremely low testosterone - not fun news to receive yesterday).

I hope you're all doing well. Thanks for the responses. Life is good. There are ups and down, but overall life is much better than it used to be. I haven't been high on opiates nor do I care to be. It's all about getting my body up-to-speed. I need to work out more. Thankfully the kratom gave me an appetite tonight, that's been tough lately. Life is good. :)
 
TBH, I feel really guilty over this kratom buzz. It's eating away at me and I'm trying to be more interested in the football game which isn't working. I feel like I just, tonight, broke the real sobriety from opiates. Not sure how fast I'll be picking that spoon up in the future.
 
locohooter said:
TBH, I feel really guilty over this kratom buzz. It's eating away at me and I'm trying to be more interested in the football game which isn't working. I feel like I just, tonight, broke the real sobriety from opiates. Not sure how fast I'll be picking that spoon up in the future.
Click to expand...

Slippery slope dude. Watch your thinking. Don't let a little kratom slip-buzz convince you you're defeated. Big picture. Your over-all trajectory to freedom is stilll of utmost importance.

Keep it alive!
 
it's not the kratom it's coming off all the opiates that's still hurting. Kratom can only cover it up a bit, but not all the way
 
You're on your way to everything you have desired and you WILL overcome this. I have belief and faith that you will. Years later you will look back on this depressing point of your life and just laugh and question your mindset then.
 
Thank you guys. REALLY appreciate the support. I forget that PAWS is still coming off of opiates. It's been two months today since I've gotten high. It's not an easy mind-state to be in. One day is great, next sucks, anxiety is always there...

Again, support so appreciated. Everybody in my life either doesn't know and forgets that I'm still dealing with this... PAWS.
 
Kratom is a blessing among all of us. I used it to get off those toxic opiate bc I was using the for depression and anxiety. Kratom is special. I'm still using it for anxiety and to give me energy at work. If you really wanna feel something from kratom I suggest you switch strains each day. I did this and I actually had a reverse tolerance and now I have to take much less then I used to. Remember that the first dose of the day will always have the most impact and the most mood lift and bc of the long onset try to avoide redose for an hour until its at its full effect. If you wanna quit kratom RLS will probably be the biggest problem. I suggest kava kava or chamomile or any other sleep aid helps wonderfully. Just remember that kratom does not compare to the toxicity of semi synthetic opiate derivatives. Kratom is a beautiful tree which I believe was put on this earth by God for people like me and you. Let's treat it with respect and it will do the same for us :) I wish you the very best. -peace
 
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