Mental Health Did Effexor XR Reduce my I.Q. / Cause Neurological Impairment?

[CSM25]

This got deleted 3 x... I wrote a blog, I'll post once I am a bluelighter.

TL; DR.

-I have had sexual desensitization --> doing NoFap for this and it helps... but need to make 90days first.
-Slurred speech
-more difficulty in school
-and the like post effexor.
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I have ADHD, was on Effexor XR. It is likely that I have had some of my issues even before effexor, but this drug greatly exacerbated them. I could read and write at gr. 10 level in gr. 5. I don't think I slurred any words... maybe mumbled some if I was shy, but not literally finding it difficult to say them.

I was on Effexor XR for severe anxiety from 19.5-21 or so. Maybe 1.5 yrs. maybe 8mo. I actually have no idea.

I always disliked school. Too rigid, too many inane rules. I usually did quite well. I was overweight but quite funny and had lots of friends up until high school. I first experienced difficulty performing there... I found out it is anxiety a couple years later in university. I was treated with Effexor XR. #WorstDecisionEver


I have other side effects:
-Long lasting sex fx (desensitization), possibly slurring words, memory problems...
-Awareness effects: I rarely ever drive. I literally got lost for like 2 years after moving to my current city, walking... near my apartment, daily. I felt really uncomfortable driving in my home city, even around the nearest roads... I lived there 7 years.
-Also weird zaps like my phone was vibrating in my pocket... but on the wrong leg. Sometimes it didn't even vibrate. Sometimes it wasn't even on me. This is pretty much gone; I may have some hallucinations here and there (rare... alcohol, stimulant, sleep deprived, anx induced).
-Problem solving effects (math, office work, and the like...)

-Could Effexor, which effected my sex drive and sensation, have caused permanent down-regulation of NE and other neuros (esp serotonin --- with excessive PMO)?
-Also the blackouts... while drinking, and other implications there. I've drank maybe 1400x or more, in like 3-4yrs. blacked out (5 or more times). NEVER once did I ever black out before using Effexor. Okay, I drank way more after that... but I prefer stimulants.
-Side note: I could hide my self medication of rum, then vodka for a few years, then familial stress, pressures, my inability to get things done at school, bastard friends leading me astray, causing irreparable harm... I drank and drank, until I couldn't stand).

-Is it possible that I will never be as intelligent as I once was, or that I have some sort of brain damage from my time on meds?

It definitely fucked me up that's for sure... Obese as a child -- to pretty fit and *finally* good looking, only to add irremovable (for years) fat, and then destroying my Ability to feel pleasure or want real sex... That's good for dating! And actually tangibly worse things I did not mention. Anyways, not to dwell... most that is behind me... I just don't want to lose my potential. Other worse things happened too like MANIA.

/Fuck... I'm remembering all this now. I have a paper due. /

I hope Dexedrine for ADHD (only for school for now) doesn't fk me up more. Besides anxiety and fatigue stimulants weren't nearly as bad as alcohol nor antidepressants were to me. It is a Dopamine and possibly NE releaser, right?

-So to sum up: Can these meds cause me irreparable neurological damage? Brain Damage?
I want to get an MRI anyways... and possibly test my nerves down there... but I saw a urologist, he agreed to abstain and gave me some cialis... that was a year ago.
I definitely feel a lot better and can rise on command 2 weeks into nf, even a week... but how long til that heals completely?

I have all but quit drinking, smoking, cola, effexor, PMO, and whatever else. I meditate, eat right, and usually exercise.

 

[a dream]

Your post is kind of hard to read. How old are you now? How long ago did you stop Effexor? What dose were you on when you stopped?

Effexor has been known to have longer term withdrawal symptoms for some people, worse than most other SSRIs. Effexor is one of the worst as it also effects NE. Many doctors don't even seem to acknowledge that SSRIs have acute withdrawal symptoms. There is a separate wiki article on post-SSRI sexual dysfunction as well. I've read plenty of anecdotal reports of psychiatric drugs causing long-term harm (years) but also many reports of people finally recovering after a while.

Long-term cognitive effects are very troubling. I would try to get this problem dealt with very aggressively and don't be afraid to be more assertive with doctors if they aren't taking your symptoms seriously or moving fast enough in ordering tests and referrals. Do your own research, especially before starting any new treatments.

Dextroamphetamine (100% of dexedrine, Vyvanse) is primarily a dopamine releaser. The l-isomer levoamphetamine releases much less dopamine and much more norepinephrine; Adderall is 75% d-amp and 25% l-amp. Dextroamphetamine is preferable unless you need the alertness boost from NE. If you are having issues due to low NE, l-amp might be useful, and you might want to get Adderall instead. The antidepressant Wellbutrin might be useful as well, since it's an NDRI and has much milder discontinuation symptoms than SNRIs.

I would expect you to be fine with amphetamines as long as you don't use them excessively. There are good threads on Bluelight about reducing/avoiding amphetamine tolerance. But, since you have had a rare reaction to one drug, you could have rare reactions to others. (I've only had rare reactions to serotonergic drugs, it seems, so if you have problems due to one NRI you might have problems with other NRIs or drugs that affect NE. But I don't have any other info on this other than my own personal experience.)

 

[ad lib]

How long have you been off the venlafaxine? Did you stop under the supervision of a doctor? Did you taper? How large was your dose?

 

[CSM25]

Continuation - Other explanations... what should I ask the Neurologist?

Hey a dream, thanks for the reply. Sorry, my ADHD and hyperfocus makes me say a lot of things all at once. And I kept on retyping and retyping it. I just turned 27.
I was on Effexor at 19 years of age until about 21. It may have been less time, I honestly cannot remember. It has been 6 years, so I know I am not withdrawing anymore.

Withdrawal, how it affected other substances, after I quit:
Withdrawal was not so bad, I think. Maybe because I was drunk and in a mental fog... I was on 175 or 225 or so mg, I remember seeing those numbers. Whatever it was, it was high enough for Serotonergic and NE effects

I agree on amps. Dex, though less stimulating than Adderall is cleaner, and has less PNS effects.

Other substances were affected while on SNRI's. X and 2-cb had no discernible effect. And Weed made me in a word, crazy. It affected me profoundly. I felt like I could not even control my facial expressions. I was high for 6-8h when I first started blazing kush back then.
Coke and MDMA a year and several years removed were much much better. In fact, I tried coke once back then... and it was the only time during 2007-2008 I was happy (while on Effexor).

I have a lot of anxiety around driving anyways. I've been in 5 accidents or so. 2 cars were written off (I was always a passenger). I was super clumsy as a kid (still am) and so driving kind of freaks me out anyways. Then I speed to get rid of my anxiety. Maybe that's why I never learned the directions so well... But, I get lost too often even on foot.
And I walk like 30 mi a week.

I left the country one day. Went off meds. I tried to take some time away. I drank like crazy and accepted my life was destroyed. I moved to the East Coast.
I had to come back to help with my bro's engagement. And since I was always on someone else's schedule... I never got to rest, or have my brain rewired, or quit alcohol, or get my head straight before school... So this fucked me over more. I needed a psychologist or CBT or something radical, but there wasn't anything.

Moved to the East Coast - got back to school prematurely:
I moved to the east coast. I spent 2.5 years getting sober, staying low key... and getting back to a semi-reasonable routine. This was delayed by a year of alcohol and coke.
Still, I can act quite functional on those as opposed to those horrible pills.

I resolved the alcoholism, the other drug use (which came about to cope), and finally got back to lifting weights. By 2010 I was fit again. By 2011 I was off alcohol. I made 90 days - the first time in my life!! I was slowly adjusting to a semi normal student lifestyle.

I came back to school prematurely. I needed severe help... and I never got it. I had to get all fucked up to not kill myself... and so that set me back a year or so. REally, I was not ready. i have since argued several cases to protect my academic standing. I won most of them. Graduating soon. I wish, I had a year off in 2009. I could have graduated 2 years ago... or change my major and fin 3 years ago.

Now, what do I ask the neurologist? I will get a referral.
-I will mention the speech issue.
-I will mention the desensitization. I saw a urologist... he says it could be SNRI related. And agreed with my no self-touching to heal nerves. It helps, it really does.
-And ask about memory, driving, and other issues.
-Are there scans that show possible deficits... can they show the areas affected by ADHD, or possible neurotransmitter down-regulation?

People might think I am a hypochondriac, but I put back my life over the last 4 years... and it has been brutal. My family just thought I was lazy or fucked up... and not really trying or whatever... but I was and in many ways am still a complete mess.

My psychologist says that I am working my way out of a hole... due to bad decisions, bad reactions, untreated lifelong ADHD, etc. My friends were sociopaths... and I didn't see it and couldn't do anything about it, thanks to EFFEXOR.

On medication review sites, drugs forum, ADD forums, many claim to have suffered impaired judgement and losing of careers, marriages etc on antidepressants such as EFFEXOR.

 

[CSM25]

Hello Ad Lib. I don't recall a taper. I thought I just threw the effexor away. I may have... and then dodged the Psychiatrist for a month or so, and then started Zoloft. She was pretty nice (despite prescribing this poison), and likely would have tapered it down. I was caught up in some stuff outside of school that involved my associates selling, and getting into troubles with some serious types.

They were in genuine trouble and took me down with them... Anyways, I should have seen it earlier but I didn't because of the meds. This caused multi-year and possibly life-long consequences for me. Hence, the impaired judgement.

I am not too bonded and can easily disband from people now. So that's good.

In short: I probably tapered but not the right way. I may have lowered it and then just discarded it at a moderate dose, cold turkey. I truly cannot remember.

 

[Abject]

You're very quick to blame Venlafaxine for all of these problems.. You say you were drinking heavily, and took MDMA, both of which are neurotoxic. I would look at those more than the SNRI.
What stims were you using? Did you do meth recreationally?

Off the alcohol in 2011? I'd put money that drinking is the cause of your feeling dumber, and not the Effexor.

SSRI/SNRI's usually kill sex drive. When I was on an SNRI I had more of a sex drive than on SSRIs (still less than normal) but it was harder to reach gratification.
Both gave me anorgasmia (I could cum but there was no orgasm) which was unexpected as my orgasms are usually pretty lackluster to begin with.
Though once I got off them, my sexuality/genitals returned to normal.

The zaps you described are from w/d, though I never experienced any.

After 6 years the way you got off it means absolutely nothing.

I had to look up what PMO (porn, masturbation, orgasm) meant... I guess if you grip your dick like a vice it could desensitise it?
I can go pretty hard and don't notice anything like that.. I'm lucky enough to have my foreskin though.

Good luck with everything. You should ask your referring doctor about Neurologists.

 

[CSM25]

Re: Your EXP with Adderall Hair thinning?

I am not QUICK to blame the SNRI's ... I've thought about this ongoing for 6 years+. I know that drinking can cause issues.
I've done MDMA maybe 2 or 3 times. I had a tiny tiny dose of ecstasy at around 21. And I had a small bag over the course 4 months, like 3 years ago.

Is it all Effexor? No. I don't blame the couple years of treatment for my ears that stick out.

Stuff that I KNOW was Effexor related:
-Weight gain: 30lb up in 1 to 1.5 yrs on the medication. 208lb, up from 180. I have been 173-190 since. 180lb for 6/last 11 years... near there, except for EFXR.
-I had to detox with milk thistle and worked out pretty solidly even as I gained that weight. I believe it caused my liver to not be able to process proteins, lipids, and carbs. Instead it was working to rid itself of effexor.
-Was it purely the alcohol? Well, I drank a lot at 23, 19, etc... and even with 3 months of no weight lifting, I stayed near of my weight.

My memory for conversations is excellent. In prob-solving courses - math, physics it isn't so great. I need to practice a problem 5-10 times, and this coupled with ADHD which makes me start super late causes serious issues. The right tutoring would help. I have some at times.

Too much alcohol does not leave a person inhibition free, but rather more inhibited. Inhibition to the ability to walk or reason and through habit, inhibition to be calm, without the "need for a drink".

Likewise, too much anxiety is BAD, especially when the amount is disproportionately higher than the threat level. If someone is afraid to talk to the opposite sex, that's not a healthy amount of anxiety. To numb one out, so that there is no anxiety in anything... is much worse I believe.

Everything is electrochemical. These responses happen due to the neurotransmitters at play. GABA for alcohol, and Serotonin and Norepinephrine for the SNRI.
In either case, at the end of it's habitual use, one is left off more depleted and in a worse position than before.

I think so. It did affect me profoundly, mainly negatively. Perhaps it lowered my inhibitions to the point that other substances looked attractive.
Perhaps, once off, and the neurotransmitters were no longer kept from being cleared out of the synapse, then I CRAVED those very things.

I will link an article regarding the liver damage / metabolic damage I mentioned, that I believe caused the weight gain.
(http://aop.sagepub.com/content/33/3/381.full.pdf+html)

It isn't about the brain so much, but it shows these things can cause serious issues.

 

[bees_knees]

Antidepressants cause the brain to regenerate, at least in certain parts. You would think that would improve cognition, it's probably something else.

 

[CSM25]

Hey there.

I know that everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I will try and get some tutoring after I graduate, in case I continue schooling in a math heavy field.

Also, I believe it may have its roots in ADHD:
There are studies indicating difficulty driving, as well as difficulty in organizing mental tasks. There are studies indicating difficulty driving, as well as difficulty in organizing mental tasks. Basically, many experts say ADD/ ADHD is a disorder of "Executive Functions" and not simply "inattention".

I suppose that all those things occurred because of my non treatment of ADHD (at least CBT or some coaching would have helped a little) and focusing on the anxiety with the SNRI as well.

Some studies: Woodward, L. J., Fergusson, D. M., & Horwood, L. (2000). Driving outcomes of young people with attentional difficulties in adolescence. Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, 39(5), 627-634. (accessible through a university library resource page).

Dr. Russel Barkely spoke on it as well. I didn't drive till after the experiences, so maybe it was always difficult.
I need more practice for sure.

I found some research that indicates Mania from SSRI's and Effexor. But a lot of it is by PR. Breggin, who many take issue with. I agree with some of his claims, but
he also states that many of the claims of scientists and ADHD are completely fabricated. There is much anecdotal support, but of course that isn't rigorous.

At the same time, drug firms have research to back up their medication's efficacy... and those that don't support it, are not published quite often.
My prof, who is a biologist and an economist, and worked for a major pharmaceutical firm for decades, says this is true.

 

[a dream]

Also, I believe it may have its roots in ADHD:
There are studies indicating difficulty driving, as well as difficulty in organizing mental tasks. There are studies indicating difficulty driving, as well as difficulty in organizing mental tasks. Basically, many experts say ADD/ ADHD is a disorder of "Executive Functions" and not simply "inattention".

The ADD/ADHD label is bad and not specific enough. It's not as bad as the depression label though. I have executive function trouble more often than I have inattention. Sometimes I suffer from worse inattention when taking my ADD medication (dextroamphetamine) because things I don't want to focus on become more boring than they usually would.

I found some research that indicates Mania from SSRI's and Effexor. But a lot of it is by PR. Breggin, who many take issue with. I agree with some of his claims, but
he also states that many of the claims of scientists and ADHD are completely fabricated. There is much anecdotal support, but of course that isn't rigorous.

I experienced SSRI induced hypomania and at one point minor hallucinations. It all went away after discontinuing the SSRI. The drug was also anxiolytic and mood-improving.

 

[CSM25]

Hey a dream, I fully agree with the label being inadequate. It makes it seem like a joke. My whole life is characterized by the executive dysfunction.
I hyperfocus so much it has easily killed at least a year in obsessing and worrying. I research things to the point of analysis paralysis. I suppose the things I neglect are more boring, but the stuff I obsess about make me sick at the same time... things I want to change but they just seem impossible.

I had major mania (I think it could be hypomania) for sometime while on Effexor. I believe it has happened later as well, with blackout drinking... doing things that I didn't believe and could not recall at all that were super out of character. On it, it was ongoing.

I am sure it was anxiolytic. But to me it was mood-altering and not improving. I was dead inside. I couldn't feel anythingg, anywhere.

No reaction to an insult or slight, no response to someone close to me almost dying. It wasn't all the time, but my emotions were severely dampened. THAT's why I thought it worked.

I think I first noticed the absence of intense anxiety for a few months after building up in my system... followed by perhaps a permanent "high" with disregard to everything I should have worried about, and then I was totally fucked... and had no way out. So, I had to leave and get off of it. Afterwards... insane depression, but not just because of discontinuation... but because I was a completely different person by the time a year had passed being medicated. My future was irrevocably altered. All the plans I had... all the dreams I wanted to fulfill were now impossible.

I've improved significantly in many ways. I'm a better person. A healthier person. I am finishing school. One day I will get closer to what I want.
I 100% believe this drug changed me though... it changed my possible outcomes. I will fix what I can and create enough happiness to remove the unhappiness from my memory.

Some of Dr. Russell Barkley's talks. First is short. Sec quite long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQC-Nk5OOfE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua8Zm9STtKY

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Drugs don't really affect IQ per se in most cases. You're likely just going through a protracted withdrawal.