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Did anyone else see that story on Sunday night about Xanax?

I have to agree with Crankinit

and I will add that I don't believe benzos are suitable for long term use in human.

they cause brain damage similar to that seem in long term alcoholics and the damage it did to my GABA system took years over one year to repair.

I believe a lot of people currently using benzos would do better on a function dose of an opiate, well at least I know I am.

and we have known for a long long time that benzos do more harm to sleep patterns than good.

of course lots of people use them "responsibly" but even responsible long term use leads to brain damage and withdrawal symptoms that are above and beyond what most people can cope with.

the bennefits of benzos simply do not out weigh the nasty shit that goes along with them, not when there are alternatives for anxiety.

edit: If people really want them then sure what ever but I was prescribed 150 X 2mg xanax bars per month and I wish I was given the alternative choice of morphine as a treatment for my anxiety. I now use opium which is better than straight up morphine but I wish I could just go to the chemist and get morphine like I could for my ridiculous over prescription of xanax.

edit sorry for all the typos but I think it's readable now
 
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^ @crankinit; that's an issue of education and professional development then. it is a field that is constantly evolving and changing, and doctors - especially GPs i imagine - have a lot to keep abreast of.
the problem with media hype is that it is infectious. the worst excesses of the war on drugs are perpetuated in the mythologising of certain drugs being bad/evil/super dangerous outside of all reason. the demonisation of heroin (over all other similar pharmaceutical opiates) is an example of this.
i don't know how to solve this issue - and i've not had great experiences with doctors either - but it's this fear spreading (that miss nervosa so clearly illustrates above) media hype that shits me the most.
it would be nice if society weren't informed by such ambulance-chasing lowlives as the people that make tabloid tv shows like the one in question. i would hope that most doctors would have the critical analysis skills to ignore shit like this before it influences the way they do their jobs...but i'm really not so sure that is always the case.

i certainly don't disagree that these drugs are dangerous as hell, but that can be said about so many medications people take, such as SSRIs and antipsychotics. i would just like to see scientific perspectives given more weight than that of tv shock jocks. not the way this country seems to be going though...
 
spacejunk said:
^ @crankinit; that's an issue of education and professional development then. it is a field that is constantly evolving and changing, and doctors - especially GPs i imagine - have a lot to keep abreast of.
the problem with media hype is that it is infectious. the worst excesses of the war on drugs are perpetuated in the mythologising of certain drugs being bad/evil/super dangerous outside of all reason. the demonisation of heroin (over all other similar pharmaceutical opiates) is an example of this.
i don't know how to solve this issue - and i've not had great experiences with doctors either - but it's this fear spreading (that miss nervosa so clearly illustrates above) media hype that shits me the most.
it would be nice if society weren't informed by such ambulance-chasing lowlives as the people that make tabloid tv shows like the one in question. i would hope that most doctors would have the critical analysis skills to ignore shit like this before it influences the way they do their jobs...but i'm really not so sure that is always the case.

i certainly don't disagree that these drugs are dangerous as hell, but that can be said about so many medications people take, such as SSRIs and antipsychotics. i would just like to see scientific perspectives given more weight than that of tv shock jocks. not the way this country seems to be going though...
Click to expand...

I'll agree with you there, the media has a horrible, toxic effect on society when it comes to spreading fear and hysteria, but sadly there's little anyone can do about it, because the media is essential to a free society as well.
 
yeah, and unfortunately the masses don't want insightful analysis - they're lured in by the lurid trash of commercial tv and the contrived outrage of conservative corporate media. it's a sad state of affairs, and i just get bothered by a drug being singled out for this treatment because it usually has the consequence of irrational fear spreading through all kinds of people.
not just doctors and pharmacists, but absolutely fucking everybody. usually the same people that wouldn't listen to an informed opinion if they came across one, but if ACA has a soundbyte of a guy with books behind him and "expert" written under his/her name, suddenly their opinion is worth something.

i'm more concerned about the impacts of alcohol on society, but alcohol companies sponsors these programs (or networks) thus they are in cahoots. it's a crazy old world, kids.
 
Crankinit said:
I don't deny that the problems you're discussing exist, and have an effect on patient care, but to claim that wait lists or financial viability are to blame for doctors irresponsibly and inappropriately prescribing patients daily doses of a highly addictive drug like xanax when they should know better is a cop out. There's no excuse for that level of ignorance or apathy from a doctor, especially not "oh I only have 20 minutes with this patient so I'll just give them their 4mg a day of xanax and move onto the next patient instead of taking the time to refer them to proper treatment for their anxiety". The reality is that too many doctors, and again GP's are especially guilty here, are blatantly ignorant when it comes to anything beyond handing out anti-biotics or giving flu shots. They see a patient with anxiety, so they check a book (or more likely remember what the pharmaceutical rep told them) and throw some xanax at them then move onto the next patient.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, I just think you may be underestimating the role played by problems within the system itself. 20 minutes is long for a GP consult... And given the huge range of conditions GPs see on a day to day basis it is literally impossible for them to keep up to date with best practice for all of them. Clearly anxiety is a common problem which they should prioritise more highly, but the same could be said of dozens of conditions.
 
while xanax is (probably) over-perscribed, in terms of medicinal use it DEFINANTLY has a use in terms of treating panic attacks and without a tolerance, .5mg can ease any anxiety and if not abused you can maintain a non-low tolerance for years. however it has massive abuse potential, and the consequences of an addiction can be very severe, so its not a light choice to start using. and in terms of being perscribed (and sensible), it (and any benzo) should be perscribed short term .

the article in case sounds like a piece of shit. $30k for a bottle hahah ide give up xanax in a second.
 
^ Agreed acidicweed_69 ^ My boyfriend is a good example of using very small doses only when absolutely needed,and also using other methods to manage his panic disorder.

Me? I'm a different story.I was first prescribed Xanax by a GP at a busy medical centre (you know, 5-10 mins in and out).I told him my SSRI wasn't working and he handed over the xanax no prob.Over two years I built up a tolerance and was taking 6-10mg a day.He had kept increasing my script until it got to 6mg a day,and eventually he got pissed off that I was coming in for earlier than I should have for refills.So what does he do? Cut me off cold turkey.Yes I had seizures and all of the other lovely withdrawal symptoms that make you feel like you're dying.I went to the ER a couple times and they sent me home with a few valiums after a 5 min chat with a psych (I should mention I told them at the hospital that I was suicidal).
Then I attempted suicide.Again,overnight in the hospital and they discharged me when I could barely walk or talk and gave me a script for a small amount of valium and put me on the 2 month waiting list to see their psychiatrist.
Eventually I found a doctor that specialised in benzo addiction and got the help I needed.But fuck I had to fight hard to find someone who would really HELP me.So if you live in Sydney and have a benzo addiction,don't expect a lot of sympathy or help from hospitals.The system sucks :X
 
Sonny Jim said:
I have to agree with Crankinit

and I will add that I don't believe benzos are suitable for long term use in human.

they cause brain damage similar to that seem in long term alcoholics and the damage it did to my GABA system took years over one year to repair.

I believe a lot of people currently using benzos would do better on a function dose of an opiate, well at least I know I am.

and we have known for a long long time that benzos do more harm to sleep patterns than good.

of course lots of people use them "responsibly" but even responsible long term use leads to brain damage and withdrawal symptoms that are above and beyond what most people can cope with.

the bennefits of benzos simply do not out weigh the nasty shit that goes along with them, not when there are alternatives for anxiety.

edit: If people really want them then sure what ever but I was prescribed 150 X 2mg xanax bars per month and I wish I was given the alternative choice of morphine as a treatment for my anxiety. I now use opium which is better than straight up morphine but I wish I could just go to the chemist and get morphine like I could for my ridiculous over prescription of xanax.

edit sorry for all the typos but I think it's readable now
Click to expand...

Proof that they cause brain damage.........?
 
Crankinit said:
I don't deny that the problems you're discussing exist, and have an effect on patient care, but to claim that wait lists or financial viability are to blame for doctors irresponsibly and inappropriately prescribing patients daily doses of a highly addictive drug like xanax when they should know better is a cop out. There's no excuse for that level of ignorance or apathy from a doctor, especially not "oh I only have 20 minutes with this patient so I'll just give them their 4mg a day of xanax and move onto the next patient instead of taking the time to refer them to proper treatment for their anxiety". The reality is that too many doctors, and again GP's are especially guilty here, are blatantly ignorant when it comes to anything beyond handing out anti-biotics or giving flu shots. They see a patient with anxiety, so they check a book (or more likely remember what the pharmaceutical rep told them) and throw some xanax at them then move onto the next patient.
Click to expand...

where's the blame on the patients who choose to continue to go to said pillmill and continue to be untreated for the most part?

one thing i've always found with a reliable GP is they will take to time out of their day/s to properly and continue to properly treat me and the existing problems i have - this means that yes, i have to sit through their bullshit as well, it's a two way st. these consultations will go onto 40mins, so the industry standard double consultation. they've always laid out all the options to me in clear black and white terms for no confusion and treated me with respect for asking questions back and for stating my own said opinions.

the bullshit i had to go through to even begin down the right treatment path just recent was a total loss to me; 6 months to be exact. mind you i'm a low income earner so was somewhat limited initially but as DM said it's no easy solution to the patient nor doctor at current. things are improving in certain areas, though.
 
eldub v7.0 said:
where's the blame on the patients who choose to continue to go to said pillmill and continue to be untreated for the most part?
Click to expand...

Numerous patients believe their conditions are biological and are told that they will have to manage their symptoms for the rest of their lives. I've spoken to a number of people that have accepted a bi-polar diagnosis to mean life time use of ssri/snri + benzodiazepines or ssri/snri + an anti-psychotic like quetiapine.
 
that's fine and dandy and all but i deal with a whole spectrum of symptoms and at the moment i'm comfortable with the fact that i'll be on medications for the rest of my life, though, i choose other ways of dealing/coping, ie - therapy at time. and therapy could be getting out in the lawn and meditating to free up the mind or some bullshit like that, actively doing something and not just popping a pill. i'm no poster patient but i do seek alternatives to the mindset of just an apple a day kinda thinking. somedays.
 
yagecero said:
Numerous patients believe their conditions are biological and are told that they will have to manage their symptoms for the rest of their lives. I've spoken to a number of people that have accepted a bi-polar diagnosis to mean life time use of ssri/snri + benzodiazepines or ssri/snri + an anti-psychotic like quetiapine.
Click to expand...

As a diagnosed "bi-polar" patient, I will agree that it is very easy to get stuck thinking that you will be on medication for the rest of your life. I got my diagnosis 5 years ago now and am currently taking no medication.

A large part of the problem is thinking you MUST have medication. I think that after a while of management on meds though you learn enough techniques to reduce and finally come off them and still manage.
 
I watched it and funnily enough im on xanax now, but I only seem to be able to get a few pills every few months, ive been using benzos 7 years and never had a habit except for once when I was young, dumb and potentiating opiates with benzo's. These days the only reason id use them would be for true, extreme anxiety/panic, to come down from meth or other harsh comedowns(which is essentially anxiety), or for opiate withdrawal(my doc has given me diaz once for opiate withdrawal Bupe>Methadone).

The end part of the documentary really scared me, I do think they only showed the negative effects and life changes that those people have experienced. The thing about a 2mg xanax costing up to $100 in the US is just stupid, where on earth did they get that from?

I hope this doesnt effect the people that truely benefit from benzo's. I have only ever been able to legally aquire benzo's for the bupe transfer, once for cutting my finger off and once from an idiot child psychiatrist when I was 15! And I need it a lot more now than I did then :( . Anxiety is such a dibilitating disease, wish some doctors were more compassionate.

I feel so much compassion towards you guys that are on benzo's n the doctors fuck you around. I wish people were getting the help they needed benzo or not but its just doesnt seem to happen much often :/
 
Yeh they got the Aussie price right but they were also saying that the people that buy pills off of the prescription holders are all heroin addicts that are looking for that similar high....WTF? Yeh some do to just "get more fucked up" but most buy em to deal with WD's. There was so much bullshit in that doco, its the first one that has actually worried me significantly. I hope most doctors and for that matter most people with power and intelligence realize that its all biased and deceptive.
 
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$30g for a bottle appraently. that's either 3 ucks a pop for a hungy or 6 for fitty pack, probably 2mg
 
Sonny Jim said:
I have to agree with Crankinit

and I will add that I don't believe benzos are suitable for long term use in human.

they cause brain damage similar to that seem in long term alcoholics and the damage it did to my GABA system took years over one year to repair.

I believe a lot of people currently using benzos would do better on a function dose of an opiate, well at least I know I am.

and we have known for a long long time that benzos do more harm to sleep patterns than good.

of course lots of people use them "responsibly" but even responsible long term use leads to brain damage and withdrawal symptoms that are above and beyond what most people can cope with.

the bennefits of benzos simply do not out weigh the nasty shit that goes along with them, not when there are alternatives for anxiety.

edit: If people really want them then sure what ever but I was prescribed 150 X 2mg xanax bars per month and I wish I was given the alternative choice of morphine as a treatment for my anxiety. I now use opium which is better than straight up morphine but I wish I could just go to the chemist and get morphine like I could for my ridiculous over prescription of xanax.

edit sorry for all the typos but I think it's readable now
Click to expand...

Where's your proof benzo's cause brain damage?
 
So I was talking to my mum on the phone tonight-here's how it went...

Mum-Did you watch 60 minutes on Sunday?
Me-No,you know I don't watch those crap shows
Mum-You don't take Xanax do you?
Me- *knowing what was coming* Oh um,I used to,but I take valium now *lies through teeth*
Mum-Oh thank god for that,because they said you can only take Xanax for 3 weeks otherwise it sends you crazy!!!
Me- *Bashes head against a wall repeatedly*

Fuck you 60 Minutes :X
 
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