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Misc Dicyclomine- not euphoric, not fun...so why can't I stop?

mal3volent

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
32,644
So I've kinda been wanting to make this thread for a while, but every time I think about doing it I always back off. I've done pretty extensive searches through OD to see if I could find something that could help me, but it seems like whenever it's mentioned it's by somebody who stumbled into daddy's medicine cabinet looking to get high. The thread gets closed most of the time (rightfully so) or it gets laughed off because no, of course there's no recreation or euphoria when you abuse anticholinergics. Maybe I missed something, but that's usually the extent of the conversation.

So I'll just get to the point here and maybe someone can shed some light on the subject. First of all, I do have a legitimate intestinal issue and dicyclomine has done wonders for me on that front. I've been prescribed it for years and for the longest time I never even considered abusing them. It worked so well that one night I actually went to a Mexican restaurant with friends, which is something I never do with my IBS. Eating Mexican food, for me, is basically instant diarrhea. But I really wanted to go and the meds had been working remarkably well, so I went and took a days worth of pills at once, 4x20mg. On an empty stomach with beer, that was enough to show me the side of dicyclomine I hadn't seen up to that point.

Needless to say, by the time we were actually ready to order I wasn't hungry. Blurred vision. No focus. Fever. I just sat there and did the best I could. Terrible experience...not fun or euphoric, clearly. Gradually after that night though, slowly but steadily, I started wanting that feeling again. It's inexplicable to me, but over the past couple of years I've worked myself up to 6x20 mg. I skip every third night to avoid running out.

There is something intriguing about it to me. My normal routine is no breakfast, early lunch, dicyclomine and 1 beer around 7 or 8PM. I don't eat again until right before I pass out, usually around 1am. It takes about 30-45 minutes before you really start to feel it. I ride the wave, do something to distract myself through the onset of the more unpleasant effects...music, Xbox, tv, whatever. It feels very unnatural and unnerving, kind of like being dizzy and trying to stand on the edge of a cliff. But after I ride that out, it's completely different.

If I have to compare it to something, it's almost like being blackout drunk but skipping the fun part. There's something else though. There's a dark undertone to it, similar to feelings I've had on dxm or mxe. I can feel some of you getting upset reading that...understand I'm not trying to say dicyclomine is as good as either of those things. It's not. It's pretty terrible actually, and it honestly worries me that for some reason I keep going back to it. Why? I guess part of the answer is it's cheap and abundant. But there's this out of body, lobotomized, weightless feeling.

Can anyone make anything out of all that? I know the overall effect of such prolonged abuse can't be good.
 
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I dont understand your question.

The drug maybe a anticholinergic. More specifically possibly a muscarinic acetylcholinergic antagonist.
 
I dont understand your question.

The drug maybe a anticholinergic. More specifically possibly a muscarinic acetylcholinergic antagonist.

I actually tried to be very direct with the question...it's right there in the title of the thread, question mark and all. Honestly, I was just hoping to create a dialogue about why an individual might decide to abuse certain substances that have no overtly euphoric effects.

and you're right, dicyclomine is an anticholinergic. Google can tell you that much. I mentioned in the first paragraph that these types of drugs aren't exactly known for their recreational potential.
 
So would you categorize it as a disassociative ? Similar to how people abuse Diphenhydramine for similar effects even though everyone agrees it's far from recreational?
 
So would you categorize it as a disassociative ? Similar to how people abuse Diphenhydramine for similar effects even though everyone agrees it's far from recreational?

Diphenhydramine is not similar to dissociatives nor is it a dissociative, it's a deliriant. Feels nothing like them. I tried it once, I saw bears walking around the yard and shit. Wasn't particularly interesting or enjoyable and didn't repeat, very dangerous as well at deliriant doses.
 
Ahh, good catch, TY. A nice arylcyclohexylamine sounds like more fun to me, but I'm not here to judge. Even with some of the fantastical hallucinations I've read about DPH no one has ever said they'd like to do it again.
 
Honestly, I was just hoping to create a dialogue about why an individual might decide to abuse certain substances that have no overtly euphoric effects.
There is a commonly cited drug that causes reinforcing effects/addiction without euphoria etc but I can't for the life of me recall what the name is or what its mechanism of action is at the moment. It might've been a dopamine agonist.
 
So would you categorize it as a disassociative ? Similar to how people abuse Diphenhydramine for similar effects even though everyone agrees it's far from recreational?

I don't have any experience with diphenhydramine, but I've seen it mentioned in the same sentence several times while researching dicyclomine. Treezy says it's a deliriant and from what I can tell that description matches the symptoms I've experienced.

I am not as knowledgeable as you guys when it comes to dissociatives, but in my own mind, the comparison I made between dicyclomine and dxm/mxe is valid. At high doses, your thoughts and memories seem foreign to you. The environment you're in feels unfamiliar and your mind feels detached from your body.

The big difference is there's no euphoria and no real introspective quality to it. I've had minor visual and auditory hallucinations, but nothing as dramatic as treezy described with diphenhydramine.
 
Have you found out what aspect of it makes it so reinforcing to continue to misuse? Is it the escapism or maybe something more akin to being blackout drunk without the opiateish feeling?
 
Have you found out what aspect of it makes it so reinforcing to continue to misuse? Is it the escapism or maybe something more akin to being blackout drunk without the opiateish feeling?

Yeah, I think it has to do with both of those things. I do have depression, anxiety, and what I and others have speculated is PTSD (I'm not sure, never been diagnosed). I think these things leave me associating confusion and delirium with euphoria because it fulfills my need to be separated from my thoughts.

I guess I was just hoping there was a more interesting explanation.
 
Well I certainly won't move or close this. I'm sure some others will chime in as this is pretty fresh. Hang in there brother.
 
Well I certainly won't move or close this. I'm sure some others will chime in as this is pretty fresh. Hang in there brother.

Thanks man. Honestly, I've already gotten more of a response than I anticipated. I look forward to any additional insight though. ;)
 
God there's some dumb people on this site. Not you OP, some of the replies. I always enjoyed sub-delirium doses. As for your question... I think people automatically assume people are taking higher doses of deliriants, which are yes definitely notoriously dangerous. But by the sounds of things, you're taking a sub-delirium dose, as you haven't mentioned hallucinations etc. I find anything over 250mg of Diphenhydramine (not sure what this equates to in Dicyclomine) feels kind of 'black out drunk' as you describe. I also love the sinister feelings from anticholinergics, i'd say its a very lovecraftian vibe, much darker than the Dissociatives IMO. Deliriants give me Nostalgia and old childhood feelings a lot more consistently than Dissociatives for me.

Basically, you are your own person and if Anticholinergics are enjoyable for you, and as long as you stay safe, who cares? Whos to say they can't be enjoyable for you.
 
God there's some dumb people on this site. Not you OP, some of the replies. I always enjoyed sub-delirium doses. As for your question... I think people automatically assume people are taking higher doses of deliriants, which are yes definitely notoriously dangerous. But by the sounds of things, you're taking a sub-delirium dose, as you haven't mentioned hallucinations etc. I find anything over 250mg of Diphenhydramine (not sure what this equates to in Dicyclomine) feels kind of 'black out drunk' as you describe. I also love the sinister feelings from anticholinergics, i'd say its a very lovecraftian vibe, much darker than the Dissociatives IMO. Deliriants give me Nostalgia and old childhood feelings a lot more consistently than Dissociatives for me.

Basically, you are your own person and if Anticholinergics are enjoyable for you, and as long as you stay safe, who cares? Whos to say they can't be enjoyable for you.

Thank you for your post, sincerely, but come on man...try to be a little less abrasive. d1nach's attention to detail, or lack there of, annoyed me a little too, but you can't stoop to making ad hominem attacks. Sometimes you end up offending people you never even intended to offend. Most of us take a lot of pride in being a part of Bluelight, so we are naturally defensive of it.

but back on topic, I loved how you used the words sinister and lovecraftian. That's a scarily accurate description of how it feels.
 
Haha I was in a rather crappy mood, that time of the morning :\ And yes, I came across someone who mentioned it felt lovecraftian... couldn't agree more. I feel like every drug has its own 'vibe' if you will. Music on Anticholinergics is absolutely phenomenal, which to me is due to our most important and most abundant neurotransmitter being blocked from its normal function, which slows down the brain and perception in a certain way in which it removes all of the noise and clutter.

You can tell these substances are vaguely evil though. Anticholinergics bring you right down into 'Animal brain' territory, you lose many aspects of what it means to be human, unlike on many other substances.
 
I was sitting in my bedroom listening to music one night...Heartattack in Layby by Porcupine Tree...it was completely dark except some faint light coming in from the hallway. My black cat walked up to the doorway and just sat there and stared at me. She normally meows her head off wanting to be fed around that time of day, but she just sat and stared for the longest time. With the light from behind her. Freaked me out.
 
I used to have a pattern of abuse with diphenhydramine that seems similar to your relationship to dicyclomine. I never took full delirium doses either, at most 250 mg at a time and 500 mg total in a day(spaced out enough to not have a more pronounced effect on the second dose).

I remember the first night my addiction started, I had bought some Unisom to help me relax and sleep and at first I fell in love with the sleepy/numbing effect it had on me. As I started to abuse it daily the effects changed somewhat and I would get a hypomanic rush on the come-up where everything seemed grand and my creativity flowed like it had turned my bland thoughts from water into wine. Shortly after the come-up the anxiety and dysphoria would take over and I would have that deep feeling of regret and vow i'd never touch the stuff again, but I kept going back. I also had a porn addiction at the time and diphenhydramine is still by far the strongest aphrodisiac I have ever taken, even if getting it up was sometimes complicated by the memory of a snail and physical issues. It would make the porn so much more engaging and I would almost feel like I was about to seize just watching some videos.

I'm as baffled as you are as to how I acquired an addiction to an anticholinergic and even though I had mounds of pot and could get my hands on better things I couldn't seem to put it down. What finally put an end to my addiction was injuring my wrist and having it heal the wrong way. Now when I try to take any diphenhydramine I get restless arm syndrome in that arm and it drove me fucking nuts! I only had to endure one night of that side effect before my mind finally decided it wasn't a good drug to consume.

After a long time taking it the hypomania and any redeeming qualities besides that of the aphrodisiac variety ceased but I continued on with it because I was actually addicted to the dark, unsettling feelings that would come over me when I would take 250-300 mg of it. It was like teetering on the edge of insanity constantly and I loved that feeling. I would get huge waves of gut-wrenching guilt come over me sometimes, interspersed with a surprise spattering of bittersweet nostalgia every once in awhile, but I was never deterred. My best guess is my extremely low self-esteem and self-hate at the time contributed to my love for it; it was a cheap and easy way to make me suffer and some part of me wanted to suffer constantly.

It's an embarrassing class of drug to have an addiction to so kudos to you for working up the courage to make this thread. I don't understand the disgust people have for those of us who have fell into this type of addiction in our past(or present). People can get addicted to pain and the anticholinergic experience is pretty painful as far as drug experiences go. Weed is actually a close contender to diphenhydramine for me currently as it makes me anxious and paranoid every time I smoke it but I have lots of difficulty fighting the urge to smoke up. I had quit all these nasty feeling drugs for a couple of months but it's hard to stick to just the 'feel good' drugs for me and as I said it probably has to do with my self-esteem issues and feeling I need to make myself suffer.
..btw i'm not comparing weed to diphenhydramine as far as effects on the mind and body, i'm just referring to how it makes me feel worse than I do sober yet I still crave for it.
 
Great post

It's strange everyone has brought up the dark, unnerving feelings...what exactly causes that, I wonder?
 
Not really. Im just your average atheist I suppose.

The dark feeling kinda scared me at first because it was so uncomfortable. But the more I got used to it, it gave the "high" more depth or dimension, or something. Basically, in the beginning it felt like a very thin superficial 'condition' that was more or less akin to the delirium you might feel when you are really sick. But I learned how to focus it, I guess, and move around inside of the confusion instead of letting it just knock me in the face.

if you have ever held a mirror up in front of another mirror and looked at yourself in the reflection of the reflection...imagine you are that reflection of yourself and youre looking back out at the "real" you. I have felt that, at times.

My one remaining dog, who is probably the closest living thing to me (emotionally)...even she has this veneer of artificiality.

I have been thinking about what other music I should listen to. Maybe like some dark electronic shit? I know nothing about electronic music though. I might have to consult the elder gods of EMD.
 
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