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Benzos Diazepam Withdrawal

well at the moment it seems to be talking to any female! but there is one person in particular who if i even think about her/go to places we used to go i end up drunk for a week. I think my drinking binge is over (for now at least) I feel like shit and just ill..


haha evelvibe! imn a dude, you did ask me before too! :P
 
Maybe you need to avoid women for a bit? I know it sounds nuts but I've been avoiding people that I know I'll want to drink or otherwise party with. Its a small sacrifice bud and if you explain it, they should understand. If they don't, that's their problem.

I think your name is what throws people off. I don't know why, I always figured you were a dude lol
 
you are prolly right.

I really wish I hadnt cancelled my counselling appointments - I told her I was 'fine' now but thats clearly not the case! living with parents at nearly 30 and being unemployed fucking sucks too
 
I had taken benzodiazepines for 9 years, 4-6mg clonazepam a day for like 6 years, before I finally got off this. And I would never have if it wasn't for my psychiatrist who had also helped me when I quit methadone and was slowly relapsing with morphine etc. Before I took clonazepam, I took ridiculous amounts of lorazepam, and one day I simply told my previous psychiatrist that maybe it'd be a good idea to switch to clonazepam because it's longer lasting, so it'd be easier for me to get off that way. Well, it was the dumbest thing I have ever done in my life actually as in no time I was even more hopeless than ever before. And my previous psychiatrist would just keep prescribing me clonazepam, as much as I wanted, I was entering her office and she had the prescription ready. 2 minutes of talking and I was leaving with a script for 6x 30x 2mg every 2 months.

When I got to my current psychiatrist with PAWS from methadone and ended up in the detox ward getting on Suboxone maintenance program, I got it down to 4mg myself after I started seeing how stupid clonazepam made me feel along with methadone, and my previous psychiatrist wouldn't care at all if I became a vegetable one day. My dose was reduced to 2mg right away. It was painful really going through anxiety in the hospital. A week after I left the hospital and was placed on Suboxone it was further reduced to 1mg. 2 more weeks and it was 0.5mg. And later I would just get no prescription from him. I started getting clonazepam on the street and via contacts for speed etc. I felt unready and the fact that I didn't really choose to quit myself was making me even more angry. By that time I had my chemistry studies all f...ed up and my life was going nowhere. I decided to leave the country to make some money. So I got a script for clonazepam for like 3 or 4 months. I can't even remember now, benzodiazepines screwed my memory so bad. The trip abroad didn't help me at all, I came back home in the end with all the problems. It was August last year. I would just smoke weed all the time to help myself with the anxiety and I would use amphetamine and mephedrone to compensate for getting no peace from opioids because of Suboxone. Eventually I got so tired of it all that I didn't even have strength to pick up the phone and call somebody to get clonazepam. I almost got kicked out of the maintenance program because I couldn't get out, I was sleepless for nights, all shaking and sweaty in the morning not able to go to the program once every two weeks...

There was no taper schedule in my mind really, I don't know how my psychiatrist had it in my mind. And right now I don't really care. It's been a month since I took no clonazepam. I was afraid of getting panic attacks and I was afraid of getting an epileptic attack. Well, it turned out that the dose I got down to did next to nothing. It was really bad mostly mentally for like 2 weeks, weird psychotic thoughts, deep depression, and literally all the stuff you can read about benzodiazepine withdrawal (problems with senses, suicidal ideation, restless legs worse than I ever got from opioid withdrawal, paranoias, sleeplessness with terrible drowsiness, realistic nightmares, derealization, depersonalization to the point I was asking myself who I am...). And I could feel there's too little buprenorphine in my system after 24 hours, restless legs would get worse, and I would get mad at everything and everyone. I've stopped seeing people and it is still this way. I either have my phone off or I just don't answers calls. I prefer to be up at night when it's quiet, I sleep at daytime, the sleep is terrible, so I wander around tired all the time. All the past struck back at me, at times I would start talking to myself and I would get so hot from all these thoughts. But more and more often I get mentally "unblocked", like there are moments some things are so clear to me just the way they used to be. My mind was so sharp compared to where I got to. But you know what? There wasn't a single moment I would start crying out for a chill pill like I sometimes still do for morphine or just any full opioid agonist. At the beginning it was really hard, but I guess BZDs sucked so much life out of me that I didn't even care to go out and look for clonazepam, unlike with morphine or heroin when I was in W/D.

I know it's easier when you already think you lost everything, and you have to start it all anew. I wasn't worried for tomorrow, nothing mattered to me, I didn't even care for maintenance program, although I knew I would be in serious W/D without Suboxone, and any heroin is like 200 km away, so I would never get to it. Anyway, I tried slow tapering from clonazepam numerous times and it never worked. In the end I did it with no schedule and although I'm literally a wreck now, with the pain all over my body despite Suboxone, I'm glad I've done it and I don't even think I could take a single pill with a BZD now. And it really wasn't a walk in the park in my case either, 9 years, day to day, and I started it when I was 14, so basically my whole adult life were benzodiazepines. I'm sure it would all make much more sense to me now if it wasn't for depression in the first place, if I ever cared for my life while being an adult. But what I did was simply going back to the point where it all started and at that point nothing made sense to me either. However, my mind was something I cared for the most, so when I started realizing that I'm getting dumber and dumber, I felt as if I had nothing left. And it's not that I don't look good etc., as a matter of fact a lot of girls would get attracted to me, it's just that I've never trusted people generally, so I've never really seen much value in the relationships with other people. They simply used me too much, I was too naive, and instead of being assertive I ended up a social retard.

Anyway, I just wanted all of you struggling with benzodiazepine addiction to know that it really can be done no matter how deep you think you are in this shit. And I started thinking I was really deep, in fact I didn't believe I would ever get off clonazepam. I imagined myself to die in my 30s, depressed, but still on clonazepam because I thought it was making me function socially somehow, do every day things etc. But it wasn't, I saw that I wasn't functioning at all once I sobered up a bit. I'm not pointing the way to do it, I just wanted to show that even if you're hopeless about everything, it is still possible. Nothing will be better right away, but I guess at some point it can't get worse when you quit.

Good luck to you all!
 
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When I do it, it's understood between me and my psy doc that its gonna be 1mg at a time and 2-3 weeks in between dosage reduction, only sane method to do it.might take long, but i'm just at 20mg daily. I need to get rid of the suboxone before anything else anyway. Good luck to anybody not going Dr Ashton style.
 
Crampz - definitely get back in therapy man. I didn't think that I needed it... but after seeing my therapist before NY... I realized just how much I've been needing it the whole time.

adder - you had quite the ordeal. Your story isn't too different from mine, I just never got into opiates. But do you sometimes think that if you didn't have the opiates you wouldn't make it? Because I've had many people tell me that opiates are great for benzo withdrawal - until you get hooked on the opiates too.

Oblivion - Even going every 2-3 weeks it fucking sucks. I started at 20mg of Valium and I'm at 7.5mg right now and I've hit a wall. My start date was 9/14 so yeah. I think I'm kicking myself now for going down so quickly.

As for today... Fuck I think I screwed up yesterday. Besides taking the 5mg in the morning when I was supposed to take 2.5mg, I took the 100mg of gabapentin and now I'm a wreck... jumpy and anxious, tight chest, etc... Its like I just went into double time on my withdrawal.

Needless to say, I won't be touching neurontin again during this mess... *sigh*
 
well at the moment it seems to be talking to any female! but there is one person in particular who if i even think about her/go to places we used to go i end up drunk for a week. I think my drinking binge is over (for now at least) I feel like shit and just ill..


haha evelvibe! imn a dude, you did ask me before too! :P

You never answered before. I wondered why magik kept saying 'man'.
I'm sorry I hope I haven't offended you. I've jumped to the conclusion about others too. I wish Bluelight would have a msle/ female sign.

Sorry
 
No problem. Yeah doctors don't really take too kindly to being told how to do their jobs. I'd find another doctor and go in with a pre-made taper plan and here's why.

If you use Valium in the manner that you're describing, eventually you're going to end up taking it all the time again. Benzos just aren't sustainable for as needed use, especially when your need for them is BECAUSE of them. Benzos are always a slippery slope. Its one that Crampz and myself in this very thread have been riding for years. Even when used as prescribed, they aren't sustainable (I never abused my medication, not once) meds. You've already got a dependency on them so that relief that you're getting is because your brain has been clamoring for it for so long that a low dose is having more of an effect than it normally would. That doesn't last, however.

If you go in to a doctor and you're honest about your usage patterns and go in with a benzo taper schedule (a reasonable one, per the Ashton Manual), they are much more likely to help you out.

Yeah another doctor probably would be wise. However my medical record will be full of drug use, an "overdose", even though it wasn't an overdose caused by overdosing, it was caused by fake ecstacy. In addition being picked up drunk and fucked on Valium, I just can't see using another doctor will be much different, even with a pre made taper plan?

So you think that even though I've been off them 2 weeks (until last night) I should still taper a bit? I have no intentions of abusing them again. My need for benzo's in not particularly because of them, I was anxious before I started using them, if I had to blame any one drug type for my anxiety I would blame my frivolous use of stimulants for the past 8 years, particularly the last 5 years. However I do agree I have a bit of a dependency on benzo's, whenever I was feeling a bit sketchy and off form after ruining myself with stimulants my answer was always "buy a few blues".

Using speed and Xanax was a stupid idea altogether. I thought it would stop me abusing either; I could sleep after all. In reality it just caused me to use more of each drug, because I could sleep I could do more speed and get away with it (short term), and because I was doing speed I needed more Xanax for the anxiety. Having a large stash of stims and benzo's is a very bad idea for me.

I won't have any benzo's today because I've given the Valium to someone else who won't give me it daily, or unless I actually need it. Valium for me also seems more of a muscle relaxant now than anything. When I took 2 last night it did help the anxiety a bit don't get me wrong.

I was thinking I might be better though instead of a long acting benzo like Diazepam going for something short acting, based on what I can get easily I was thinking Etizolam (I'm aware it's not technically a benzodiazepine), and using the Etizolam infrequently, just when the anxiety is bad enough that I can justify using it. Try to avoid daily use and getting re-addicted to anything?

Any input or thought on this idea would be greatly appreciated.
 
The problem that you're going to run into, as so many of us have, is that you start justifying benzos more frequently and you end up using it daily. Since you've abused them in the past, you run a very high risk of using them improperly again. Once you get a benzo habit, the only real option is to taper off.

If you aren't having severe withdrawal symptoms, it probably isn't worth doing a taper at this point. You probably already know this but you need to avoid drugs and alcohol for a good three months or more if you want to be successful at recovering. Alcohol ideally for 6 months to a year along with other GABAergics.
 
I now think that what my psychiatrist did was the right decision. Like I wrote at the end, I'm not pointing the way to quit benzodiazepines. What's important in my case is that we've known each other since I was 18 if I remember correctly, and at first I went to see him because of my problems with opioids. I switched to methadone myself and he didn't advocate my decision for years. But before he got me on Suboxone, I once managed to convince him to finally get me on methadone, so I can finish secondary school. Anyway I couldn't manage staying in hospital and although I didn't make it to the program, I still took methadone. After years on syrup I eventually decided myself to quit it, because I began seeing how much harm I did to myself taking it and why the doctor didn't want to take me on the program in the first place. But after I quit methadone, it was too late, I got hooked on it worse than I got hooked on morphine or heroin earlier. My doctor saw the relapse was inevitable and he offered me a choice. And he started lowering my clonazepam dose right away too. Once I got down to 0.5mg, he thought it's little enough for me to get off completely. I guess I was too scared for too long. Although I know how these drugs work, how tolerance works etc., addiction blinded me so that I couldn't objectively determine when I can safely quit. I was sure I have to take 0.25mg first, then even 0.125mg... Certainly I wouldn't have jumped off 6mg, so tapering really is the only way, but I was prolonging it unnecessarily. After 9 years I got too much used to my depressed and unsuccessful life and I'm sure I would be afraid of even the best change after such a long time. It all worked for me, because there was enough time for my doctor to know me. I wish everyone struggling with any addiction a psychiatrist like mine, understanding but confident of his actions no matter what.

I don't think that I would need Suboxone to quit clonazepam if I wasn't dependent on opioids. However, I can't deny that if I were off opioids and not fully recovered, it would have been much much harder to get off clonazepam. Although I can feel no perceivable effects from Suboxone when I take it every day, it does work and it did bring some little peace to my mind during the toughest first two weeks off the BZD. Messing with glutamate and GABA actually means messing with your whole body, so I think being off clonazepam was the reason why I was feeling bad so soon after the last Suboxone dose. It was mostly in my mind though, a month later I can survive a day on 2mg of bupe. As I compared myself with people dependent on opioids I've known, I was always among those who've really had a hard time withdrawing. I still think I need an opioid in my system more than I need a benzodiazepine. It could be because of the nightmare I went through after stopping methadone over a year ago now, 2 months after tapering off I still felt as if it was never going away. I think my opioid addiction is more complex, not only about anxiety as it was with BZDs, but also about some inner problems. Right now I don't know if I ever get to the point when I feel I can try tapering off Suboxone, it won't be any time soon for sure. But at this point I also think that the benefit of Suboxone outweighs all the downsides. With clonazepam there really was no upside, it simply stopped working, and although there was still some space for me to upper the dose and feel "well", it was adding a lot to my depression and it blunted my thinking so much that I couldn't even feel it. I mean I realized that only because I started remembering myself from times when I wasn't addicted yet and from the beginning of the addiction. The difference is really huge, like 5 years ago, let's say it would take me half an hour to memorize something that I would work on whole day a month ago. It's only been a month and I still feel dumb like hell, but I can feel it getting better.

Anyway, I'm sure for a opioid-naive person addicted to benzodiazepines even a light opioid like codeine would help a lot, opioids are powerful sedatives and antidepressants through the way they work. But I'm also sure that someone addicted to benzodiazepines would get dependent on an opioid soon after starting using it even at low doses to control anxiety and/or paranoias. Some people don't like how opioids work, but if you get something from them, you're on the shortest way to get an addiction. Perhaps buprenorphine could be viewed as a helping tool here just as diazepam or clonazepam are used during opioid withdrawal even when one is already placed on a substitute. But being dependent on opioids I don't think I can be objective enough on this subject. Buprenorphine has such pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics that they prevent abuse to some extent, altough it's easier to be enjoyed than methadone for example. But once you become tolerant, there is almost no effect, and you still may end up exchanging one addiction for another.
 
I don't think it gets much worse than this. I have been taking just 5mg a day since I fucked up and now I just feel fucking terrible. I'm drinking gfreen tea like its going out of fashion.
 
I don't think it gets much worse than this. I have been taking just 5mg a day since I fucked up and now I just feel fucking terrible. I'm drinking gfreen tea like its going out of fashion.

Sorry to hear it bud. Have you considered bumping it up to 7.5mg for a week or two?

I've been having a rough go of it since that single does of gabapentin but I'm not insanely worse. Its just ridiculous that ONE pill of Neurontin fucked me so bad.
 
I'm trying everything I can to just ride it out. It prolly doesnt help that I have stopped antidepressants too but I am so sick of the fucking sugar cravings I get whilst on them. But stopping taking them comes with 'negative thoughts'. I probably just need a fucking attitude change more than anything, just constant thoughts of 'I've wrecked my life' etc etc.

Yeah it's crazy how sensitive GABA receptors become! When I have drunk alcohol during this taper, after about a shot of vodka about 10 mins later I start trembling and shaking, but then Ive just taken more diazepam and carried on drinking....very very foolish.


How are you doing with sleep? I'm gunna have a horrible night of it. Anyway, sorry for just bitching but I just wanted to check in!
 
Bitch away, that's a vital part of recovery.

I got some very welcome news today that has put my mind at ease (even if my heart still insists on being a jerk). My attorneys have compiled together my disability case and they have come to the conclusion that I have one of the strongest cases they have ever seen and so they are going to send a request to the judge to approve my disability based on medical records which would mean not only would I not have to go to a hearing but I'd be getting my back pay in early March rather than having to wait additional 30-90 days after my hearing for them to get everything together. HUGE relief.

On the negative though, I'm still feeling the effects of the gabapentin... Oversensitized indeed... And with this move looming, I'm stressed. Then on top of all of that, I have an ex that wants to get back together and doesn't seem to understand that I can't handle the stress right now.

Take the good with the bad I guess.

And as for the alcohol... yeah, that's how I was even when I wasn't tapering... I had to have a drink every 10-15 minutes tops.
 
You have to go to court to apply for benefit in the US? Wow n I thought our system was stressful.

Crampz please stop being harsh on yourself. Maybe go back on the antidepressants. One step at a time. You need to keep yourself busy. Maybe chew some gum that may help with the cravings or get some hard sweets that you can csuck on. You're trying to do too much at once when you don't need to put yourself under that amount of pressure.

And I agree with magik. You have every right to vent it's part of recovery. Holding things inside is how/why a lot of us become addicts.
 
oh wow, thats awesome news! The last thing you need is having to go to court to defend your rights... sounds like thats one MAJOR thing you wont have to worry about.

I actually caved today and took 1.25mg at around 8am today because these last two days have just been fucking unbearable.... not sleeping is just torture...even that 1.25mg was enough to aid my sleep a little but I only got about an hour before I had to wake up again!

I think for this week I will try 5mg and 6.25mg on alternating days using the 1.25 as the 'booster' doses before going down to 5mg at the end of next week. Where are you with your taper now? are you on 7.5?
 
You have to go to court to apply for benefit in the US? Wow n I thought our system was stressful.

You do your initial filing, they reject 95% of those, then most states have a reconsideration phase by my state got rid of it so now you have to wait a year to a year and a half for a hearing where you go in front of the judge and present your case. You pretty much have to hire an attorney and give up 25% of your back pay and find some way to survive 2 years minimum (I've heard of people fighting for 10 years). I started in 2011 so I'm at the 3 year mark myself.

oh wow, thats awesome news! The last thing you need is having to go to court to defend your rights... sounds like thats one MAJOR thing you wont have to worry about.

I actually caved today and took 1.25mg at around 8am today because these last two days have just been fucking unbearable.... not sleeping is just torture...even that 1.25mg was enough to aid my sleep a little but I only got about an hour before I had to wake up again!

I think for this week I will try 5mg and 6.25mg on alternating days using the 1.25 as the 'booster' doses before going down to 5mg at the end of next week. Where are you with your taper now? are you on 7.5?

Well its not all roses... My current provider wants to bill me for the medical records so my attorneys are going to file without them and tell the judge that I couldn't afford to pay for the records but they can subpoena them if they would like to see that I'm in treatment. So annoying. Especially when we have court in less than 30 days and the judge needs time to review it before the hearing.

I'm still at 7.5mg - doctor's orders. She said my taper was way too fast... and looking at the timeline, I actually agree with her. I should have been making much smaller cuts than I have been. I rushed it and now I'm paying for it.

I hope you start feeling better man. It sucks feeling like this all the time.
 
Wow magik that's disgraceful. Anyway I wont mention it further as it'll interrupt your thread.

I think you're both doing well with your tapers, you're bound to have slip ups now n then as tapering is in fact more difficult tban cold turkey in SOME respects. With CT you with the initial WD n then you are away from your DOC (temptation) but with tapering you still have to see/have your DOC but without the affects n there is that temptation to take more n obviously this temptation is more difficult than if the DOC was not near you. So you should both be very proud of yourselves.

Note to viewers: NEVER cold turkey a Benzo it's dangerous to do so. I just used the above example to illustrate how difficult tapers can sometimes be not to "take extra."

Evey :)
 
Thanks^ - It is just so fucking depressing thinking I should have been using my 20s to get a degree/build a career etc instead of getting fucked up everyday. |It is probably too late to turn it around now, Im nearly 30. :(
 
This is exactly my thinking. But I'm 24 and I kept myself sedated with opioids and benzodiazepines in my late teen years. When I started studying, soon I realized my memory wasn't functioning as it had been before it all turned into a full blown addiction. I've lost so much time that eventually I stopped carrying about degrees and career, and I decided to fix myself first, because otherwise I will just keep losing more time. When I tried to both get off benzodiazepines and keep studying, I kept lying to myself that I'm doing some slow taper-off. But I was doing no progress at all.

Anyway, in the meantime I somehow stopped worrying myself about things that prevented me from doing what I love to do. Now I'm looking forward to study again and I really can't wait for Autumn. I hope these few months will suffice and these switches between feeling all right and feeling terrible will be much more rare.
 
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