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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Dhc 30mg
- Thread starter rdgmcc
- Start date
TheLightBringer
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 25, 2022
- Messages
- 689
About 40 - 50% of your usual tramadol dose. DHC is roughly 2x as potent as regular codeine.
Although the MME for tramadol and codeine is a little all over the place depending on where you look, id say codeine is about 25% more potent than tramadol in its opiate effects but this does seem to vary. Treat them as if theyre equipotent if you havent taken codeine.
So start with half your tramadol dose in DHC, 100 - 150mg
Although the MME for tramadol and codeine is a little all over the place depending on where you look, id say codeine is about 25% more potent than tramadol in its opiate effects but this does seem to vary. Treat them as if theyre equipotent if you havent taken codeine.
So start with half your tramadol dose in DHC, 100 - 150mg
chrispche
Bluelighter
This is an interesting thing. I believe I'm one of those people the metabolise Codeine into Morphine very rapidly. I get prescribed Dihydrocodeine 30mg tablets for lower back pain. The DHC is no where near as the euphoric feeling I get from Codeine. I think I'm ultra metaboliser. So people respond to different drugs in different ways. I always wondered about that as DHC is stronger yet for the pain killing effects it's great. However, it's Codeine that gives me a more euphoric opioid buzz.
On paper DHC is 2x stronger than Codeine but for some people the difference is small.
Oh by the way....welcome newcomer!
First off, we know that Tramadol and Codeine are equipotent, so 100mg Tramadol = 100mg Codeine. Dihydrocodeine is confusing as hell. Yes, in theory, it should be 1.5-2x more porent than Codeine. However, you will also read that DHC is more poorly absorbed which lead to a difference of 1.2x-1.5x and these are the numbers that I like to go with.
With all of this in mind, I feel 210mg-240mf is likely sufficient. You can always increase if need be.
With all of this in mind, I feel 210mg-240mf is likely sufficient. You can always increase if need be.
My algesiologist literally told me that in case of oral roa 30mg of dihydrocodeine = 10mg morphine ( ORAL ). And also 30mg of dihydrocodeine = 60-100mg of tramadol ( oral ). 60 - 100mg oral tramadol = 10 mg oral morphine.
Hey @WellTram 
In the age of immediate availability of information and artificial intelligence allegedly making science so much more... science-y, I see physicians are still trying to take their power back by making "shot from the hip" recommendations to patients based on their own often aberrant, flawed and/or outdated knowledge.
Anyone truly looking will arrive at the unfortunate fact that Codeine and to a much greater extent Dihydrocodeine are inherently dubious regarding the ultimate in vivo effects from patient to patient. Codeine is already a lot of bullshit. It must be demethylated to Morphine. Different people have different quantities of the enzymes necessary and said enzymes can be more or less efficient at demethylation. Just one variable, ethnicity/race tends to have a very significant effect upon the ultimate potency of the drug.
Dihydrocodeine, as far as I can tell, is still largely a mystery when compared to other commonly used Opioids. Analogous to Codeine, DHC is demethylated to Dihydromorphine et al and these metabolites are responsible for the majority of the drug's effects. DHC, however, is not actually totally analogous. See, it tends not to be absorbed initially as well as Codeine is. This means there is less DHC in the bloodstream by the time the liver and enzymes get to work. This leads most to put the relative potency of DHC at ~1.2x-1.5x at most. I've been reading up on it the past couple of days and everything that I have come across seems to indicate this is the best and most accurate benchmark.
Again, this is just a benchmark. As we already have discussed, there are numerous variables along the way that will affect how the drug(s) ultimately effects a person. If you ask me, there is not a great reason to be using a drug with such a dubious pharmacokinetic profile. I especially don't see a good reason to be prescribing both Codeine and DHC in the same populations. This thread should be enough evidence why.
A lot of conversion tables actually put these two as being equipotent. I feel this is obviously an oversimplification. In closing, it would be nice if folks could report their experience with these two substances. Maybe we can get a clearer picture. I, unfortunately have next to no experience with either of these. I do not metabolize Codeine, or at least not very well.
For instance, my first day in Iraq I had no connection for Heroin. I knew I couldn't really metabolize Codeine. I also had a significant intravenous Heroin habit already. I went through the laborious process of CWE'ing ~30g of Codeine/APAP tablets. You could buy a 10 blister of 30mg tablets for ~25c. For the record, you could get stronger stuff prescribed for cash, but I didn't have the time at that moment.
For most people, this would get them an oral dose equivalent to 3,000mg Morphine. As a poor metabolizer, I'm not sure how much I got, but it was enough to stop the worst of the sickness, allowing me to function and plan my next move with a clearer head. Anyway, my point is, it's not an exact science with Codeine/DHC due to these variables.
In the age of immediate availability of information and artificial intelligence allegedly making science so much more... science-y, I see physicians are still trying to take their power back by making "shot from the hip" recommendations to patients based on their own often aberrant, flawed and/or outdated knowledge.
Anyone truly looking will arrive at the unfortunate fact that Codeine and to a much greater extent Dihydrocodeine are inherently dubious regarding the ultimate in vivo effects from patient to patient. Codeine is already a lot of bullshit. It must be demethylated to Morphine. Different people have different quantities of the enzymes necessary and said enzymes can be more or less efficient at demethylation. Just one variable, ethnicity/race tends to have a very significant effect upon the ultimate potency of the drug.
Dihydrocodeine, as far as I can tell, is still largely a mystery when compared to other commonly used Opioids. Analogous to Codeine, DHC is demethylated to Dihydromorphine et al and these metabolites are responsible for the majority of the drug's effects. DHC, however, is not actually totally analogous. See, it tends not to be absorbed initially as well as Codeine is. This means there is less DHC in the bloodstream by the time the liver and enzymes get to work. This leads most to put the relative potency of DHC at ~1.2x-1.5x at most. I've been reading up on it the past couple of days and everything that I have come across seems to indicate this is the best and most accurate benchmark.
Again, this is just a benchmark. As we already have discussed, there are numerous variables along the way that will affect how the drug(s) ultimately effects a person. If you ask me, there is not a great reason to be using a drug with such a dubious pharmacokinetic profile. I especially don't see a good reason to be prescribing both Codeine and DHC in the same populations. This thread should be enough evidence why.
A lot of conversion tables actually put these two as being equipotent. I feel this is obviously an oversimplification. In closing, it would be nice if folks could report their experience with these two substances. Maybe we can get a clearer picture. I, unfortunately have next to no experience with either of these. I do not metabolize Codeine, or at least not very well.
For instance, my first day in Iraq I had no connection for Heroin. I knew I couldn't really metabolize Codeine. I also had a significant intravenous Heroin habit already. I went through the laborious process of CWE'ing ~30g of Codeine/APAP tablets. You could buy a 10 blister of 30mg tablets for ~25c. For the record, you could get stronger stuff prescribed for cash, but I didn't have the time at that moment.
For most people, this would get them an oral dose equivalent to 3,000mg Morphine. As a poor metabolizer, I'm not sure how much I got, but it was enough to stop the worst of the sickness, allowing me to function and plan my next move with a clearer head. Anyway, my point is, it's not an exact science with Codeine/DHC due to these variables.
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Hey @WellTram
In the age of immediate availability of information and artificial intelligence allegedly making science so much more... science-y, I see physicians are still trying to take their power back by making "shot from the hip" recommendations to patients based on their own often aberrant, flawed and/or outdated knowledge.
Anyone truly looking will arrive at the unfortunate fact that Codeine and to a much greater extent Dihydrocodeine are inherently dubious regarding the ultimate in vivo effects from patient to patient. Codeine is already a lot of bullshit. It must be demethylated to Morphine. Different people have different quantities of the enzymes necessary and said enzymes can be more or less efficient at demethylation. Just one variable, ethnicity/race tends to have a very significant effect upon the ultimate potency of the drug.
Dihydrocodeine, as far as I can tell, is still largely a mystery when compared to other commonly used Opioids. Analogous to Codeine, DHC is demethylated to Dihydromorphine et al and these metabolites are responsible for the majority of the drug's effects. DHC, however, is not actually totally analogous. See, it tends not to be absorbed initially as well as Codeine is. This means there is less DHC in the bloodstream by the time the liver and enzymes get to work. This leads most to put the relative potency of DHC at ~1.2x-1.5x at most. I've been reading up on it the past couple of days and everything that I have come across seems to indicate this is the best and most accurate benchmark.
Again, this is just a benchmark. As we already have discussed, there are numerous variables along the way that will affect how the drug(s) ultimately effects a person. If you ask me, there is not a great reason to be using a drug with such a dubious pharmacokinetic profile. I especially don't see a good reason to be prescribing both Codeine and DHC in the same populations. This thread should be enough evidence why.
A lot of conversion tables actually put these two as being equipotent. I feel this is obviously an oversimplification. In closing, it would be nice if folks could report their experience with these two substances. Maybe we can get a clearer picture. I, unfortunately have next to no experience with either of these. I do not metabolize Codeine, or at least not very well.
For instance, my first day in Iraq I had no connection for Heroin. I knew I couldn't really metabolize Codeine. I also had a significant intravenous Heroin habit already. I went through the laborious process of CWE'ing ~30g of Codeine/APAP tablets. You could buy a 10 blister of 30mg tablets for ~25c. For the record, you could get stronger stuff prescribed for cash, but I didn't have the time at that moment.
For most people, this would get them an oral dose equivalent to 3,000mg Morphine. As a poor metabolizer, I'm not sure how much I got, but it was enough to stop the worst of the sickness, allowing me to function and plan my next move with a clearer head. Anyway, my point is, it's not an exact science with Codeine/DHC due to these variables.
DHC is active on it's own and it also has metabolites, that's why DHC has no ceiling effect unlike Codeine. DHC behaves like a typical Opioid.
BadBoy377
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2023
- Messages
- 1,809
Iraq?Hey @WellTram
In the age of immediate availability of information and artificial intelligence allegedly making science so much more... science-y, I see physicians are still trying to take their power back by making "shot from the hip" recommendations to patients based on their own often aberrant, flawed and/or outdated knowledge.
Anyone truly looking will arrive at the unfortunate fact that Codeine and to a much greater extent Dihydrocodeine are inherently dubious regarding the ultimate in vivo effects from patient to patient. Codeine is already a lot of bullshit. It must be demethylated to Morphine. Different people have different quantities of the enzymes necessary and said enzymes can be more or less efficient at demethylation. Just one variable, ethnicity/race tends to have a very significant effect upon the ultimate potency of the drug.
Dihydrocodeine, as far as I can tell, is still largely a mystery when compared to other commonly used Opioids. Analogous to Codeine, DHC is demethylated to Dihydromorphine et al and these metabolites are responsible for the majority of the drug's effects. DHC, however, is not actually totally analogous. See, it tends not to be absorbed initially as well as Codeine is. This means there is less DHC in the bloodstream by the time the liver and enzymes get to work. This leads most to put the relative potency of DHC at ~1.2x-1.5x at most. I've been reading up on it the past couple of days and everything that I have come across seems to indicate this is the best and most accurate benchmark.
Again, this is just a benchmark. As we already have discussed, there are numerous variables along the way that will affect how the drug(s) ultimately effects a person. If you ask me, there is not a great reason to be using a drug with such a dubious pharmacokinetic profile. I especially don't see a good reason to be prescribing both Codeine and DHC in the same populations. This thread should be enough evidence why.
A lot of conversion tables actually put these two as being equipotent. I feel this is obviously an oversimplification. In closing, it would be nice if folks could report their experience with these two substances. Maybe we can get a clearer picture. I, unfortunately have next to no experience with either of these. I do not metabolize Codeine, or at least not very well.
For instance, my first day in Iraq I had no connection for Heroin. I knew I couldn't really metabolize Codeine. I also had a significant intravenous Heroin habit already. I went through the laborious process of CWE'ing ~30g of Codeine/APAP tablets. You could buy a 10 blister of 30mg tablets for ~25c. For the record, you could get stronger stuff prescribed for cash, but I didn't have the time at that moment.
For most people, this would get them an oral dose equivalent to 3,000mg Morphine. As a poor metabolizer, I'm not sure how much I got, but it was enough to stop the worst of the sickness, allowing me to function and plan my next move with a clearer head. Anyway, my point is, it's not an exact science with Codeine/DHC due to these variables.
3 grams of morphine equivalent?
Next move...
You are some fucking boy @Keif' Richards, I hope you're doing good.
BB
I know. DHD effects are not ( almost not at all ) cyp2d6 dependent. When I had my cyp2d6 blocked by bupropion, DHC still did the same as it does, well..did not a long time ago. I quit pain meds and benzos.
chrispche
Bluelighter
Yes but why is Codeine more euphoric to me than Dihydrocodeine?