Desomorphine-D (NOT 'krokodil'

[Limpet_Chicken]

Does anybody happen to know whether desomorphine-D, and here I speak of desoxymorphine-D hydrochloride or freebase, either one can be had as desired, can be vaped, either as is, or mixed with a bit of caffeine freebase of HCl?

Also, with morphinan type opioids, how much caffeine should be added to allow them to be smoked, and is it mandatory for the caffeine to be freebase, or is the HCl salt fine?

This is NOT a question about 'cutting', stepping on these drugs for financial gain, it is about enabling the person who uses these opioids intravenously already, to permit them to be available TO THEIRSELF in a form that can be toked from one of their glass vaping pipes for various opioids, or a meth pipe type pipe.

Also, what are people's thoughts about cutting together some dipropionyl/dibenzoylmorphine with or without morphine itself, as freebase, some caffeine base to help it smoke (I've never tried smoking dibenzoylmorphine, but intravenously in a mixture of about three quarters by volume prope dope, the rest dibenzoylmorphine was quite an experience, gave it a rush like I've only ever felt better from 6-acetoxydihydromorphine HBr, intravenously (monoacetoxy, the three position unesterified), which had rush of SLIGHTLY slower to roughly equal onset time compared with morphine (unesterified utterly, plain ol' vanilla flavour morphine (vanilla I mean, metaphorically, I did not actually add the compound vanillin, or ethylvanillin for that matter)

Although hard to compare, because for me, I need to use a 5ml barrel to slug morphine sulfate, just less enough water than 5ml to allow for registering and a couple of reregisters if needs be to ensure being in a vein and staying there, I've got shitty veins thanks to seriously abusing them with a fucking shit-not-ton-but-shipping tanker-load of various different NMDA antagonists of varying different chemical families. Everything from ket, to MXE, to 3-OH-PCP (which is the creme de la creme, aside from memantine, which I hold equal to it), to diphenidine/methoxphenidine and high, high high dose memantine a handful of times, and I've loved all of them. Especially the IV diphenidine, IV 3-OH-PCP and IV memantine. Although diphenidine is terrible for getting into solution, needs heating and shooting whilst warm. Plus the dose is large so its a total pigfucker of an ISIS supporter of a mother of a guttercunting twatfaced bastarding well theresa may syphilitic slut-bitch of a drug physically to get injectable or inject.

 

[Neithman]

Although diphenidine is terrible for getting into solution, needs heating and shooting whilst warm. Plus the dose is large so its a total pigfucker of an ISIS supporter of a mother of a guttercunting twatfaced bastarding well theresa may syphilitic slut-bitch of a drug physically to get injectable or inject.

hilarious

 

[sekio]

I think you can vaporize any of the "classical" opioids, anything from morphine to levorphanol, off of foil in the traditional way w/o any caffeine. I've not done it but friends of mine have.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Doesn'ae caffeine aid in the stabilization of the morphinan breed of opioids? I'd been led to believe, however correctly or incorrectly that the reason for the addition of some caffeine, was that these opioids are whilst not real cowards in the face of a bit of warmth like say, a lysergamide, not total my-former-housemateesque level of instability, but all the same somewhat heat sensitive so the idea of adding caffeine was for it to at least partially decompose, forming a protective microenvironment that acted in a manner akin to an inert gas blanket on...well choose your touchy reaction of choice that needs some nitrogen or argon or CO2 etc. to keep it from going up in flames. Bee it potassium metal or LAH, or butyllithium, or willy pete, whatever pyrophoric gits'n'shiggles that takes your fancy to wake you up in the morning

Decomposition providing a gas shield that helped, if not prevent rearrangement type decomposition, intramolecular reactions, then at least, to give two fingers to oxidation in the air, aided by the temperature needed to vape the opioid.

And foil can suck my christicles and call them bubblegum bon-bons. It blows goats, major goatblower there, smoking from foil. Its a pain in the ass to do, to avoid burning through the foil, pain in the ass keeping the lighter there, you go through a fucking metric bollockload of cigarette lighters and don't even get me started about the acrid smell that comes from the smell of a melting fingernail on fire, or burning flesh, dropping a searing hot fag lighter (thats, before anyone infracts me, 'fag' in the english sense of the vernacular, meaning a tube composed of paper containing tobacco to be stuck in one's mouth in order to inhale obscenely expensive, government fattening addictive carcinogenic poison that goes rather pleasantly after shooting up some gear, or first thing in the morning after 'yeh brekky.

And those bastards claim to be protecting drug users from harm by locking them up, stealing their drugs and the money and drugs from hard working drug dealers. Whilst knowingly creaming off 98% in tax from cigarettes, growing fat and bloated, like a pus and decaying semen-filled testicular abscess, slobbering, like the foolish bastard cretinous verminous pestilential wallet-sucking banknote-ticks that they are, clinging on to the country, sucking away and vomiting forth their diseased utterances as if they were plague bacteria being refluxed in a Y.pestis-infested rat flea and yarked back up into the bleeding wounds left by their feeding, and the festering sores left by their presence.

Know what the shopkeeper and tobacco grower gets, per pack of 20 filter tips (I don't like them and don't smoke them unless I've bummed one for free (seriously, british language is a wee bit different to a lot of places, US in particular, ask an american if they will bum you a fag, and chances are, you are going to either get a beating, or regret what precisely you wished for, after just having got said wish granted. Rollups are my thing rather. And another hilarious example of linguistic fuckaboutery, is that, I learned, as I speak american sign language, is that the exact same sign in BSL, british sign language, which means 'goodbye' means, in ASL, 'bitch' Or one of the two signs in ASL for bitch is the same, kinda cupping the right hand to the ear with thumb touching. palm/fingers facing and pointing, respectively towards the face, and whilst moving the hand away, turning it palm outwards. That means 'bye' in BSL, 'bitch' or possibly 'you bitch' in ASL xD)

But yeah, was talking to a shopkeeper who got forced entirely out of business, lost their job because tobacco kept the customers coming in and then when they couldn't afford it, nor could the shopkeeper, the result was to lose all their customers, lose the shop and be forced out into the cold. Shopkeeper gets two pence a 20deck, grower gets forgot which, either 4p or sixpence. The govt, which has done shit all and jack, not necessarily respectively, gets to grow fat like that festering gangrenous bollock on the money turned to pus, when they inflict their inverse Midas touch* upon the wallets of the deserving, and those who must have to work hard at their job.

(*unlike the eponymous king, in the case of government thievery, and in fact those snot-dribbling federal bird-turglars generally speaking, when it comes to the wallets of the deserving, governmental sticky fingers dip into wallets, and gold turns into dogshit. Goes into the pockets of dog shit too, but never mind that. I don't even wish to think about the kind of dog shit not even a bluebottle will vomit on and yes, if anyone was wondering, no, I am not some filthy leader of a convicted europhile ring. Nor do I particularly like them. And I'd about as soon use a rusty syringe last used to plug krokodil sensu stricto by a HIV-positive Tim-Burtone-film-esque manner of clown to inject hydrofluoric acid up my urethra, drink bleach and die whilst masturbating to cherie 'what an ugly bitch' bliar.

Speaking of krokodil, or rather, desomorphine, the reason that I am curious, is that I am also cirious about the caffeine explanation I have explained as given me, and its truthfulness or lack thereof. And it has been my experience, unsurprisingly that different morphinan opioids, in my epicurean travels through the fields of the poppy, have been of course, of different BPs, leading them to be easier or more difficult to vaporise, using, in my case, heroin as the reference drug, since it is most frequently the opioid that tends to be smoked at least here in the UK, on the streets.

For example, prope is quite hard actually to vape properly compared to H at least, using the exact same glass piece (like I said, I don't use foil, aside from the sole, thus far, reason, of using it to get a clearer idea of the MP/BP of the drug/s. Its easier to tell how hard or easy such a morphine-type, or H analog will vape at using foil, since it heats up faster and its distributed ipresumably, over a narrower area, faster. But smoking with a glass vacuum pipe (by this I mean a piece that is designed to create a low pressure region in its chamber by the force of the smoker's lungs. I like to save any broken test tubes, and some pieces of boro glass tubing, and after either warming and softening the closed end of the test tube, fuse the broken burette/pippete or length of borosilicate glass tube, to the wall of the test tube using a suitable torch, then after a dusting of powdered graphite, to prevent sticking, forced into the exterior surface of the tube, cinch it closed using a guitar string, a bass string preferably, like a bottom E, to neck it down like a wasp's waist, or better yet, something similar, but after fusing a narrower, shorter, piece of glass tube, bent into a U shape, at a bit shallower and more rounded an angle than a letter U, fuse it above the first tube, to the upper wall of the test tube to allow for the airflow, then cinch it closed, threading one end of the string through the brass eyelet at the other and using it like a hangman's noose, closed of course with pliers to spare one's fingers a nasty ass toasting on searing hot glass. Don't fancy that too much

But it works well, (the second design, the more complex with the double inlet and outlet tubes, doesn't btw have a pinhole poked through the glass of the test tube, but works FAR better than foil, for, I believe at least, a threefold reason.

Partly because of the lowered pressure, a weak partial vacuum essentially, lowers the boiling point of the drug, as with a vacuum distillation, and partly because glass takes longer to heat, is thicker and distributes heat better and retains it longer than foil, and as the glass stays pretty hot elsewhere, as one tokes away on their chosen chemical euphoriant, psychedelic or mixture of the two, and starts to roll and twirl the glass between the fingers, like a hot autistic chick stim-spinning *cough..I mean...like say, a meth pipe being used...ahem...cough...yes thats it, like a meth pipe*. the preheated, liquified drug can then roll back onto further hot glass and it helps to get more toking done through any given time period of aforementioned activity, since the rest of the glass, as well as drug, is preheated and the vapor pressure is also, greater with the lower pressure created inside the pipe chamber. The reason for the wasp-waist cinch (cut the guitar string off with bolt cutters or a hefty pair of nippers if it sticks despite a dusting of graphite (powdered pencil lead will do at a pinch) is to create a port for loading the goodies that is wide, like a champagne glass (the wide bowl kinda fuckers not the flute kind) that narrows, then expands into the main chamber, that way the drug can be tipped in without spilling it, and a suitable pokey used as a ramrod. Paperclip is fine.

The resultant pipes, should anyone take the time to make one is one hell of a lot more efficient and less wasteful of the substance used to charge it. Especially in the case of the somewhat sensitive opioids, its really noticeable with dipropionylmorphine, since it is considerably harder to vape well than is diamorphine of an equivalent standard.

And I A-don't know how pure desomorphine freebase smokes, or A-how stable it is once vaporised. I would however like to know. And I'd like to be informed rather than heat up desomorphine-D base and find that it smokes like a turd sandwich

 

[serotonin2A]

I think the caffeine is used because it forms a eutectic (low melting point) mixture with heroin.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Presumably likely also to depress the MP of prope dope, and of dibenzoylmorphine, then?

And as for desomorphine, well I just haven't yet done the work, so I don't know what it smokes like at all or how heat sensitive or high-melting this particular morphinan is, in terms of smoking from foil, and mainly, from a glass piece. And I'd love to know from those with firsthand experience of desomorphine-D who have actually smoked it.

 

[Solipsis]

Cool to know the technicalities of e.g. using salt for snow removal.. doesn't this require a proper mixture though, by going through a dissolved or molten state after you add the caffeine? Seems unlikely that you'd get such a 'superlattice' just by mixing together the course solid particles? [as apparently the eutectic reaction is one going from a liquid to solid solution]

 

[adder]

I imagine such eutectic mixtures would be obtained upon evaporation of a solvent from a solution of both compounds or via crystallization perhaps, but that could require even more specific conditions. No idea if that's what is necessary, I've never actually thought about it before.

BTW, isn't dihydrodesoxymorphine-D simply desomorphine? Is there really desomorphine-D by any nomenclature? IIRC these names appear only in old papers and textbooks, and basically dihydrodesoxymorphine-D is 7,8-dihydro-6-desoxymorphine while desoxymorphine-C is 6-desoxymorphine. I took desomorphine i.v.'ed a few times but never tried vaporizing it, I was never really good at vaporizing brown sugar to begin with.

Edit:

So apparently I was wrong about desoxymorphine-C which is not simply 6-desoxymorphine (Δ7-desoxymorphine), but rather Δ6-desoxymorphine. Desoxymorphine-A is Δ7-desoxymorphine, desoxymorphine-B doesn't exist, it's actually desoxymorphine-A, thus Δ7-desoxymorphine, but was thought to be something else due to an impurity which, funnily enough, lowered the m.p. of "desoxymorphine-B" in comparison to desoxymorphine-A.

The true desoxymorphine-A

 

[Solipsis]

I imagine such eutectic mixtures would be obtained upon evaporation of a solvent from a solution of both compounds or via crystallization perhaps, but that could require even more specific conditions. No idea if that's what is necessary, I've never actually thought about it before.

If very particular conditions are necessary for a eutectic system, then it seems that if random smack junkies use caffeine with actual success without doing anything fancy with it, maybe it's a more simple reason like just moderating the heat applied. Something truly inert would be better in that case.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Well, solipsis, consider this: even if the solids are mixed and bashed up together (not in the sense of 'bash' to rip customers off, there are no customers TO rip off, since this is to make my treat administerable by vaping not just by the needle or up the bungholeIneedTPformybungholeforIAMCORNHOLIOneedTPformybunghole! but by pounding them together, the opioid and caffeine that is mind you, I'd rather have my bunghole remain that of a man and not have anything pounding it, unless it has to be a selfadministered syringe full of a drug, or cocktail of drugs)

The H melts, as does the caffeine and they form a liquid together, therefore what need for cocrystallization, if the two are then melted together forming a solution in the molten state?

Although the plan was, to co-xtylyze to beegin with and not simply rely on solution of the melting opioid and caffeine. But to dissolve the opioids in freebase form, and caffeine, in solvent of choice that doesn't have any particularly noxious characteristics and is both capable of dissolving both opioid and caffeine, and also with a nice low evaporation point so as to avoid the use of vacuum, which might end up distilling one but not the other, or causing sublimation, generally messing up the lovingly plotted, calculated planned and schemed proportions desired of morphinan delicacies to protective addititive.

Adder, could you maybe be willing to go to the effort of doing diagrams for each of the desomorphines?

And the one I have in mind, is that formed by reduction of alpha-chloromorphide, so this would be 6-desoxymorphine, desomorphine-C....god I'm a bit confused now. But chlorination of sulfate of morphia to alpha-chloromorphide (6-OH replaced with 6-Cl, then catalytic hydrogenation to effect dehydrohalogenation giving 6-deschloro(and de facto 6-desoxy)dihydromorphine. Both to be tested IV, on its own, and with both morphine, dipropionylmorphine and a mixture of prope and dibenzoylmorphine, and to be smoked/vaped with dipropionylmorphine co-xtylyzed with the desomorphine (whichever the hell one it might be ) as well as co-cocrystallized with prope and caffeine.

 

[serotonin2A]

Heroin and caffeine definitely form a eutectic mixture. Check out p. 73 of the following publication. Adding caffrine lowers the mp of heroin from 174.5 degrees C to 159.8 degrees C.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=http://dspace.library.uu.nl/bitstream/handle/1874/1159/full.pdf%23page%3D65&hl=en&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm1agHpM7ox6tjWY4NKebDA6PFTzpQ&nossl=1&oi=scholarr

 

[Solipsis]

Well, solipsis, consider this

oops, thanks I clearly hadn't

 

[adder]

This is a rough scheme representing transformations leading to various desoxymorphines, I hope it doesn't violate the rules in any way as it doesn't contain any practical information about the synthesis. I'm not posting a link to the source as it has descriptions of the syntheses.

Both alpha- and beta-chloromorphide undergo hydrogenation with Pd/BaSO4 as a catalyst, however, beta-chloromorphide gives a better yield with virtually no tetrahydrodesoxymorphine as a side product while alpha-chloromorphide gives considerable amounts of the side product. Hydrogenation of desoxymorphine-C by H2/PtO2 in glacial AcOH gives a ~1:1 mixture of dihydrodesoxymorphine-D and tetrahydrodesoxymorphine which can be easily separated according to the source.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I've read very good things about going directly from alpha-chloromorphide to desomorphine (desomorphine-D afaik) via colloidal Pd, via cat-H at atmospheric pressure, as well as Pd/C in EtOH or iPA. Plad cat does the same, whilst colloildal Pt or plat cat again iPA or EtOH is meant to give the tetrahydro product in main, whilst pladcats give a couple of percent tetrahydrodesomorphine and almost exclusively desomorpine. Cant remember the structure of beta-chloromorphide.

I did post it before in an incidental sidetrack of thought in another thread. But after wikipedia mentions alpha-chloromorphide as 10x potency of morphia, the alpha-chloromorphide itself was tasted, since NO reports could be found on it other than the wiki, which was obviously written as a placeholder with someone making guesstimates, but who has themselves never actually tried the substance because the wikipedia is utter buttfuck. It does relieve withdrawal from morphia and from oxycodone, but other than that I honestly wouldn't have even said 'opioid' in a double blind test. I'd have said potent and selective DARI with co-occurring dopamine receptor direct agonist properties.


Oddball stuff, real funky shit. The only thing I've ever tasted that was anything even close, is kratom, old ass kratom sent in bulk as a free gift, got a huge bag of what was presumably scrappy old stuff, because of it being free and in a large (pound at least) of kratom. That was subjectively different from other kratom I've had. Not very MOR agonistish, and more stimulating in a perky kind of way that I can most compare to opium pod tea. The kratom and its oddly stimulatory in a unique way thing, was not, I believe down to rynchophylline and other yohimbane-core based alkaloids since I tried it with and without catecholaminergic adrenal supressive agents, clonidine, tizanidine and both, which had it been an alpha2 antagonist would have suppressed the effects of that nature. It and they did not. Plus I am extraordinarily sensitive to alpha2 adrenoreceptor agonism/antagonism, the former I crave in a nonreinforcing manner the latter make me pretty ill. A2Ar antagonists cause SEVERE and absolutely horrid akathisia, make me just want to die. Mirtazepine for instance, has to be one of the foulest, most distressing experiences I have ever had the displeasure of undergoing. Right up there with a dental abscess, although the pain was of a far different nature, or with an eyefull of boiling water saturated with NaOH, in a mixture of THF and MeOH plus reactant, that flashboiled in a microsecond and rocketed up out of a flask to smack me dead on in the face, of what hit me, copped the lot in one eye, whilst the rest, or most of it anyway, got blasted up onto the ceiling, some splattering the windows, door, walls, floor etc, and leaving me with a good few hours of cleanup, search and rescue of product to perform after irrigating the shit out of my eye. Or having part of my hand stripped down to bare muscle by SOCl2, and again by perchloric acid, and before anyone tells me to war gloves-I do. I was wearing thick leathers at the time and I was only a little kiddo, and the thionyl chloride went straight through my glove, rotted it off my hand and then carried on going, corroding its way into my hand. When what was left of the glove came off, so did what remained of the hit portion of the hand. HClO4 wasn't so unforgiving, there was much much less of it, but what there was, was most certainly not what you could call pretty.

So yeah, I'd know if it'd been an alpha2 antagonist. No fucking doubt about that. This was definitely, subjectively speaking, most similar to an extremely selective DARI coupled with a releaser, or a slightly less selective but still pretty damn selective DAT blocker coupled with a DA agonist, such as say pramipexole plus desoxypipradrol. With quite a bit of hints of the perk of pod tea from the thebaine. But different from thebaine-containing MOR agonists.

I strongly suspect, especially as it was, at the highest doses tested, the cause of clonus, twitchiness of the most distal extremities, fingers and hands mostly. I didn't take it any further than when that began. I'd have said desoxypipradrol, possibly plus DA direct agonist if in double blind, and certainly not opioid, subjectively although it does relieve withdrawal from sulphate of morphia.

I plan to do some more testing on that, using H and 6-MAM as they are agonists of DOR1 and DOR2 respectively in those tolerant to morphia or physically dependent upon it, as I have become courtesy of my longterm pain management. H and 6-monoacetylmorphine are only partially crosstolerant to morphia in the user tolerant and-or dependent upon the latter and undergo a switch from activation of primarily MOR to primarily DOR apparently.