depression

[citizen cained]

so thoughts? do you think you can cure or control depression completely naturally? i.e. no drugs or supplements at all?


not sure if this is the right forum..

 

[SpinOutOfControl]

I think it depends on what causes the depression in the first place.

 

[j0nblaze]

I'm sure it is "possible" but every single situation is unique, and has more than one solution or combination of solutions.. I would think.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

I too believe that every situation has its own answer. but as the problems vary this much, as do the solutions.
I thnk it all boils dwn to subconscious obbsessions over certain thngs.
Schizophrenics have the subconscious obbsession that there are actually voices in their head.
Bipolar disorder would be the obsession of each extreme of the emotional spectrum.
I believe any mental disorder or problem stems from the subconscious holding onto somethng that isnt psychologically and/or spiritually healthy, as these two aspects of the self is connected in this way.
The cure would be to become consciously aware of the exact problem n treat it accordingly.
i kno the second part of the cure is too vague but like i said the problems vary so widely.

 

[Vader]

not sure if this is the right forum..

No, I don't think that it is, you'll probably get better responses in TDS.

 

[tommy34]

No cures that I am aware of. Some things that I have found to help and have heard that help. Exercise, I find exercise, especially intense muscle building exercise to be so helpful words cannot describe. Your body will release endorphins, its good to get out that frustration that otherwise builds up and you get psychical results. A healthy diet, your body and mind will thank you for some good nutritious food. Psychology, especially CBT, you can learn to think differently. Antidepressants, although I have tried them once for 2 weeks I found them to make a difference but since I have bad side effects (suicidal ideation). Some people swear by theirs and it can be a easy path to start recovery. Sorry to talk in such a text book kind of manner, I have that manner when it comes to depression because I don't feel that it is a text book subject. Try different things and you will eventually find what works for you. Just remember when it comes to the mind, healthy is the only answer, drugs are unhealthy for the mind.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

No, I don't think that it is, you'll probably get better responses in TDS.

You'll get predictable responses no matter what forum you post it in.
The spiritual aspect of depression could be discussed in P&S, the therapeutic treatments for depression could be discussed in TDS, the social aspects could be discussed in SL&R, as well as how it affects your boner, and the best ways to capture depression in a photograph could be demonstrated in SO.
And a response like mine could be fit for the lounge.

 

[Asclepius]

I too believe that every situation has its own answer. but as the problems vary this much, as do the solutions.
I thnk it all boils dwn to subconscious obbsessions over certain thngs.

Schizophrenics have the subconscious obbsession that there are actually voices in their head.

This statement makes it sound like someone suffering from schizophrenia has a condition that they should just learn to 'let go of'-which is completely unfounded!
There are other factors involved; Genetic, Enviromental etc, that have absolutley nothing to do with the individuals 'obsession' with their hallucinations:

Auditory hallucinations in schizophrenia are caused by changes in normal brain activity. When a schizophrenic patient's brain is scanned with a PET scan or fMRI, the paralimbic regions, subcortical nuclei and limbic structures are activated, which are brain regions associated with auditory hallucinations, according to "A Functional Neuroanatomy of Hallucinations in Schizophrenia" by DA Silberweig et al. Research by Christian Gaser et al in "Neuroanatomy of 'Hearing Voices': A Frontotemporal Brain Structural Abnormality Associated with Auditory Hallucinations in Schizophrenia" adds that schizophrenic patients have a decrease in brain volume in the primary auditory cortex, inferior supramarginal gyrus and inferior right prefrontal gyri.[/

..

Bipolar disorder would be the obsession of each extreme of the emotional spectrum.

Again, I think this statement doesnt explain anything about the persons condition. Perhaps you are trying to explain something away by dumbing it down.

I believe any mental disorder or problem stems from the subconscious holding onto somethng that isnt psychologically and/or spiritually healthy, as these two aspects of the self is connected in this way.

This can be part of a recurring behavioural problem but it really doesnt make much sense to hold a sole, personal belief as a blanket theory/solution for every facet of Mental illness that people experience . Although an effort can be made for a person to maintain their Mental health and stability to some degree through proper diet, excercise and spiritual discipline blaa blaa-There are many factors outside of the control of that individual such as Social/ Family Enviroment/Physiology/Genetic Predisposition etc... Society doesnt always cater to the needs of certain groups of people who dont fit into the 'Healthy' category(through no/little fault of their own) but easily labels them and puts the onus on them alone, to heal themselves or face rejection- if a person has NO/little control over their bio-chemical makeup how exactly are they supposed to 'let go'of it? This is really confusing and throws barely any light on the real issues at hand IMO.

The cure would be to become consciously aware of the exact problem n treat it accordingly.
i kno the second part of the cure is too vague but like i said the problems vary so widely.

This makes absolutley no sense to me. I am not an expert myself and assume you are neither but it sounds like you are saying that the source of the problem can be drawn out like poison from the subconcious and everything would be made better... Sounds like a well intentioned belief in Excorcisms?!

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

^I think he means "physiological" or "involuntary" rather than "subconscious" but IDK...

 

[HeWhoHowls]

Im nowhere close to an expert, just a believer in the absolute power of all 3 levels of consciousness.
subconscious- the area of the mind/soul that deals with involuntary feelings n emotions that most of the time we arent aware of
conscious- our voice in our head responsible for logic reasoning n actual thinking
superconscious- that little piece in all of us that is the connection with the divine, responsible for psychic/spiritual phenomena; what causes humans to do superhuman actions. control of the superconscious varies from person to person according to their ways n effectiveness of spiritual practice. the ancient as well as modern kahunas of hawaii attribute this "high-self" as the tool used to immediately mend broken bones n sickness. before the christian crusades and the outlawing of shamanic practices of the hawaiin islands, there was absolutely no reports of mental disorder.
these definitions of conscious levels arent the ones found in your medical dictionaries, i know,but this is spiritual consciousness. as spirit manifests itself into matter, spirit controls matter.


I honestly dnt mean to make my answers as simple as possible because i thnk any of you are dumb. i do it so itll leave as little room as possible for interpretations that i didnt intend to put as i write them. i really didnt mean to belittle the subject or any of you reading.


Yes i believe that "letting go" is the first major step in the cure. this answer is simple i know, but it can be hard as hell; even damm near impossible. but it can be done! i also agree that there are factors outta ones control, but only outta ones conscious control. becoming conscious of the problem is the 1st sub-step in the process. by becoming conscious of the problem, you are bringing your mind n soul together, readying it to heal. once you have that done, the participation of the subconscious n conscious are side by side, true in their faith that "i have a problem, but all that can change". then bring your intent n completely focus it with every fiber of your spiritual n mental whim. by summoning your conscious n subconscious spiritual energy, you are "feeding" the superconscious. once you can completely devote yourself to n fullfill this task you have performed a miracle. miracles arent impossible, as we are all born with the seed of superconscious ability; water it as often as you can with your energy n watch your miracles bloom!
Once again, simple answer; extraordinary process.
But for those who dnt truely believe, what else would you expect other than failure??
as serious and deep-seated as the problem would be, the process of spiritual healing must be just as enormous n strong.


i believe the definition of exorcism is to draw somethng out. so by that definition, yes, it would be an exorcism. ridding yourself of the "demons" that plague one so horribly.

once again i apologize if i came of like some asshole with the simple answer to everythng.

 

[Asclepius]

^Didnt personally think that you were an 'asshole' at all !

...but shamanic practices within an ancient culture that witholds the Shamen as Sacred, like before the Crusades, doesnt realistically apply generally to people here and now(I mean it doesnt hold the same Social Power, not that it isnt an important practice within society on a micro-scale)-its Sad because Schizophrenics held a special,functioning role within Society then but unfortunately Society now doesnt in the same way-I think that is tragic in some respects however things change and take new forms; that doesnt mean that the power of them is lost necessarily.

However, the merits of someones 'Condition' arent warranted in the exact same way anymore and those/us people still have to survive in this partial system- so although I agree wholeheartedly with the nobility and truth of what you say-there is also another grittier dimension regarding the adaptability of the 'mentally ill' individual that has to be dealt with in terms of the here and now(on that level also),in order to help them cope within this system(if they so choose).
...Noble Truths are miraculous but they have to be integreted and adapt with change, otherwise they can become stagnant and lose their power completely.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

^Didnt personally think that you were an 'asshole' at all !

...but shamanic practices within an ancient culture that witholds the Shamen as Sacred, like before the Crusades, doesnt realistically apply generally to people here and now(I mean it doesnt hold the same Social Power, not that it isnt an important practice within society on a micro-scale)-its Sad because Schizophrenics held a special,functioning role within Society then but unfortunately Society now doesnt in the same way-I think that is tragic in some respects howeverthings change and take new forms.
However, the merits of someones 'Condition' arent warranted in the exact same way anymore and those/us people still have to survive in this partial system- so although I agree wholeheartedly with the nobility and truth of what you say-there is also another grittier dimension regarding the adaptability of the 'mentally ill' individual that has to be dealt with in terms of the here and now,in order to help them cope within this system(if they so choose).
...Noble Truths are miraculous but they have to be integreted and adapt with change, otherwise they can become stagnant and lose their power completely.

Ok kool, last thing i wanted to do was upset anybody.
I believe shamanic practice has virtually vanished from modern society is cuz we push it away in turn for materialistic physical thinking.
The shaman himself was just as sacred as anyone else, the ppl only reverred the power that was bigger than himself working through the shaman.
I thnk it definitely can apply to anyone who accepts it, ancient person or modern. the human spirit itself has been the same thng since the existence of the universe.
Noble truths do not change, or they wudnt be true at all.
Truth is universal n eternal.
One thng we can agree on, it is tragic that our "get it done now n be perfect" society shuns those who are different. "sweep it under the rug" is the mindset of modern society, get it out of view n its like it doesnt even exist. Pity

 

[Asclepius]

^Not everyone thinks this way though, thankfully, there are areas in life that shoot up to facilitate the real needs of people so its really important IMO to keep a clear eye out to foster the power of it in them, rather than being too overwhelmed by what seems lost- for our own sake.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

Agreed.

 

[psytaco]

Asclepius:
I wrote a thesis on schizophrenia a few years ago that had a partial focus on the neurological factors that influence auditory hallucinations. One of the prodominate theories is that schizophrenia patients cannot distinguish their internal monlogue (you know the self talk that we all have when we are thinking) from an external source. In other words they attribute their own self talk to coming from someone, or something else. So the voices in their heads, are actually their own.

There have been alot of studies done that show that areas in the temporal lobe, particularly the medial temporal lobe are strongly activated when an auditory hallucination is experienced. One such function of this area is language (though language centres and connections are in other parts of the brain too). This also gives weight to the above theory.

 

[psytaco]

back on topic:

I used to suffer depression, acutely for at least a year, though in retrospect I think it was building for 2 years prior.

I am firm believer that many, if not most people can beat their depression without the use of antidepressants, and that in some cases antidepressants can add a bunch of other problems. For me they improved my depression a bit, but also initially made me suicidal, uninterested in sex (which sucks because I'm in a relationship with a stunning woman who loves sex), emotionally flat, and in the end started putting on weight fast. still trying to lose these stupid love handles. Not to mention the withdrawal symptoms when I tapered off them and stopped.

Anyway, what really helped my depression was a few things.

1) changed my life circumstances and being proactive. i dealt with the things that were making me depressed. I moved out of the house I was in where I was always having conflict with the housemates, this actually lifted my depression more than anything.

2) having the support of my girlfriend. if you don't have a partner, talk to your friends about your going through. You'd be surprised (as I was) about how supportive they are.

3) cut out drugs. You need to give your brain every chance to reajust chemically. This includes alcohol too.

4) Exercise regularly. exercise has huge benefits to lifting depression.

5) Get counselling. CBT is quite effective in treating depression. I would recommending counselling to everyone with depression.

So yeah, it is possible to beat it. you just have to give it some time and work at it, and work at being healthy too. I haven't had depression for about 6 months now. This time last year, I was stuggling at university, never saw friends anymore, spent almost all my time in bed, and was really miserable. Now, I've just completed my second degree whilst working part time, and have managed to save enough money for a 6 month trip overseas.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

back on topic:

I used to suffer depression, acutely for at least a year, though in retrospect I think it was building for 2 years prior.

I am firm believer that many, if not most people can beat their depression without the use of antidepressants, and that in some cases antidepressants can add a bunch of other problems. For me they improved my depression a bit, but also initially made me suicidal, uninterested in sex (which sucks because I'm in a relationship with a stunning woman who loves sex), emotionally flat, and in the end started putting on weight fast. still trying to lose these stupid love handles. Not to mention the withdrawal symptoms when I tapered off them and stopped.

Anyway, what really helped my depression was a few things.

1) changed my life circumstances and being proactive. i dealt with the things that were making me depressed. I moved out of the house I was in where I was always having conflict with the housemates, this actually lifted my depression more than anything.

2) having the support of my girlfriend. if you don't have a partner, talk to your friends about your going through. You'd be surprised (as I was) about how supportive they are.

3) cut out drugs. You need to give your brain every chance to reajust chemically. This includes alcohol too.

4) Exercise regularly. exercise has huge benefits to lifting depression.

5) Get counselling. CBT is quite effective in treating depression. I would recommending counselling to everyone with depression.

So yeah, it is possible to beat it. you just have to give it some time and work at it, and work at being healthy too. I haven't had depression for about 6 months now. This time last year, I was stuggling at university, never saw friends anymore, spent almost all my time in bed, and was really miserable. Now, I've just completed my second degree whilst working part time, and have managed to save enough money for a 6 month trip overseas.

Congratulations
Through your determination n will-power you have overcome quite an obstacle.
I hope you get to enjoy the fruits of your success as intensely as possible.

 

[Asclepius]

I get that Psy, I studied it in an undergratuate course myself, many moons ago...what I was saying is that they cant distinguish between the two/many voices like a non-Schizophrenic hence they are 'Auditory Hallucinations. I hear voices but I know that they are 'my own' internal and do not attribute them to anything else. I was stipulating that they do not choose to become obsessed with their thoughts so cannot un-choose it, so to speak!-it is not just a matter of thought obsession alone because this would mean that it could be cured with conventional Therapies alone over time, right?

Willshut up about it now so the OP can carry on with his theme!

 

[TheLostBoys]

Lots of good responses above ^^^^^

There are depressions because of different situations. Lets look at a few & see if they can be cured w/o any medications or doctors.

You are married/single & have 2 kids & work doesnt pay enough. You always stress out money problems & you're always fighting with your girl about money. Solution: If you had more money to satisfy everyones needs, problem solved.

Then there is the depression that comes from your parents mentally &/or physically abusing you while growing up. Your early years should be loving & fun & enjoying them with your parents as they teach you everything about life, but its not & as you see other kids & how their life is normal, you start to figure out your upbringing was fucked up, depression starts. Solution: takes a very strong minded person to teach themselves to deal with what happened all those years & to not blame themselves. This kind of situation usually needs therapy.

You have rich kids who get everything in life, their nannys take care of them. They go on vacation every summer but the parents dont spend enough time with them. Its all the nanny doing the parents job. Kids graduate highschool & get a new BMW or Porsche & take their friends oit celebrating while trying new drugs. College omes along & they are into heavy drugs because their parents put them in this supposed depressive state because they never gave them the time of day. Solution: Rich kids need love too, haha! Usually this kind of depression will be self medicated with opiates & other hards drugs for years until they realize it time to straighten out & seek rehab & thats where they seek therapy.

I could keep going forever with my examples but you get the point.....depends on the situation & each individual to handle stress & mental pain to see if they will needs meds &/or therapy.

 

[Asclepius]

Depression is really a subjective experience Citizen cained. No Medics on here so all of this is just conjecture and personal insight.

How to manage Depression is probably more of a viable question than asking whether is can be cured or not. As there are so many different types of Depression and the duration of Episodes and factors that may hinder/hamper it are so varied. Maybe it would help you more to specificy the particlar issues or concern you have regarding depression??