Depression Medication, Therapy & Alternative Treatment

[Don Luigi]

Yip, I'm yet to meet anybody who was anxious/depressed and found any kind of relief from SSRI's/SNRI's. If anything they were usually somewhat disturbed that they'd caused any kind of long term damage or worsened/perpetuated their own depression.

The brain is so ridiculously complex. But serotonin analogues > enhanced serotonin levels.

I stopped taking SSRIs, cold turkey, a couple of months after starting. I could see the deterioration in my ability to rationalise my thoughts and actions. I have found the odd dose of psychedelics to be much more effective for me, personally. Granted, in the past year, that ''odd dose of psychedelics'' has probably equalled 30% of my use in the past ten years

 

[SmokingAces]

I suffer from manic depression/ bipolar episodes. The only things that really help are exercise, a good diet/sleep routine. Happy circumstances. To an extent drugs that make you feel happy - MDMA interaction with friends, meph with a horny chick, some opi's that put a grin on your face. But they are all short term, thankfully I realise that, so view it as purely hedonistic when I so drugs. Others are not so good at seeing the reality of it all. Fitness, health and happiness all go hand in hand together, try to adopt a healthy approach to life and your relationships with others. People who are cunts are generally sad lonely and all they do is complain, nothing makes them happy.

 

[the_gay_blade]

None of those things is a substitute for medication though. It's extremely helpful to have a good, nutritious diet, and sleep is obviously all-important. A good support network is a plus for anybody. Fitness is yet another plus, but none of these things (save for sleep) will do much good at all when a real episode strikes. Recreational drugs are a total disaster waiting to happen, however sparingly you might use them. I work with people who have severe bipolar disorder / schizoaffective disorder, and you can be the 'happiest' person in the world, with a fantastic outlook on life, yet you're at the mercy of the disease whenever it wishes to strike. No amount of 'horny chicks', spinach or whistling happy tunes will save you under those circumstances, sadly. If that were the case then the conditions simply wouldn't exist, and the cure would be called 'getting a life'.

 

[consumer]

None of those things is a substitute for medication though. It's extremely helpful to have a good, nutritious diet, and sleep is obviously all-important. A good support network is a plus for anybody. Fitness is yet another plus, but none of these things (save for sleep) will do much good at all when a real episode strikes. Recreational drugs are a total disaster waiting to happen, however sparingly you might use them. I work with people who have severe bipolar disorder / schizoaffective disorder, and you can be the 'happiest' person in the world, with a fantastic outlook on life, yet you're at the mercy of the disease whenever it wishes to strike. No amount of 'horny chicks', spinach or whistling happy tunes will save you under those circumstances, sadly. If that were the case then the conditions simply wouldn't exist, and the cure would be called 'getting a life'.

I have to say i generally agree with this. Exercise and diet are incredibly important parts of a successful treatment program unfortunately getting someone who is chronically depressed, anxious, schizophrenic, bi polar etc to eat well, exercise and have good sleep hygiene is not the easiest task. It is hard enough to get people who dont have these issues to do it let alone people challenged with mental illness. None of the medications are perfect and some have really nasty side effects but by and large with trial and error if you can get someone on the right meds their lives improve immensely. I see the results of people not taking their medication regularly and it often ends with police involved and the person section 19'd under the mental health act. Its not pretty.

 

[Ismene]

None of those things is a substitute for medication though.

Medication of what tho blade? I mean the theory behind the SSRI stuff was "it helps you by increasing serotonin levels", the latest generation of anti-depressants actually do the exact opposite - they decrease the serotonin in the brain and still make you "happier" (provided you believe the same bigpharma who lied last time).

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

None of those things is a substitute for medication though. It's extremely helpful to have a good, nutritious diet, and sleep is obviously all-important. A good support network is a plus for anybody. Fitness is yet another plus, but none of these things (save for sleep) will do much good at all when a real episode strikes. Recreational drugs are a total disaster waiting to happen, however sparingly you might use them. I work with people who have severe bipolar disorder / schizoaffective disorder, and you can be the 'happiest' person in the world, with a fantastic outlook on life, yet you're at the mercy of the disease whenever it wishes to strike. No amount of 'horny chicks', spinach or whistling happy tunes will save you under those circumstances, sadly. If that were the case then the conditions simply wouldn't exist, and the cure would be called 'getting a life'.

That's really weird coz you sound like, and use the same vocabulary as, someone who used to be on here whose real name was Ciaran but who got perma-banned for being a racist twat with several alts. Really unfortunate coincidence eh? He was really into Lithium and 'chicks' too. Uncanny.

 

[the_gay_blade]

He used the word 'chicks' in his post. Just quotin'.

 

[koneko]

That's really weird coz you sound like, and use the same vocabulary as, someone who used to be on here whose real name was Ciaran but who got perma-banned for being a racist twat with several alts. Really unfortunate coincidence eh? He was really into Lithium and 'chicks' too. Uncanny.

"Chicks" isn't a term I'm familiar with from the person you think this person is lol. If it is him SHM so what? Why can't he post here with a new moniker? What does it personally mean to you?....Fuck all I expect :D Why bother, there's worst that come here...

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Aye call me daft, I just have an aversion to racist psychopaths. I'll get over it one day.

 

[the_gay_blade]

Medication of what tho blade? I mean the theory behind the SSRI stuff was "it helps you by increasing serotonin levels", the latest generation of anti-depressants actually do the exact opposite - they decrease the serotonin in the brain and still make you "happier" (provided you believe the same bigpharma who lied last time).

My post referred strictly to bipolar disorders, for which SSRIs are contraindicated. I've actually seen positive results from SSRIs, but not really in most cases of temporary depression for which they are most frequently prescribed.

 

[consumer]

I find psychedelics can be amazing for depression. I am having a hard time at the moment and considering a good solid dose of Swiss Bliss ( maybe 600ug ) to clean out the neurons. Or maybe some mushies. Both tend to leave me feeling renewed. Not recommended for everyone but tripping definitely works for me.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Apparently a very low dose of Psycobilin is excellent for lifting mood and improving concentration, even improving learning and understanding. Getting the dose correct is essential though, obv you dont wanna be trippping balls at work or w/e. I'll try an find what i was reading and get the dose they mentioned.

As for SSRIs and SNRIs I've also quit Mirtazapine about 2-3 weeks ago. These things usually take at least four weeks to clear your system, so I wont know for sure for another couple of weeks but so far I feel far better than I did when I was on it; far less lethargy, and when I fully recover from my kratom WDs (slight relapse onto heavier opis after 10 days, which may have set me back 2 or 3 days) but I expect that by early to mid next week I should have made a full recovery, and may also have weaned myself off all the 'comfort meds' by then too.

I must be stronger than i thought, or maybe there was divine intervention, but i didn't think that i had the mental or physical strength to do it. As it turns out it hasn't been much worse than having a mild fever, not even a fully blown flue, thanks especially to Clonidine which eliminates 90% of those kind of symptoms. It does make you very tired, but if you've nothing else pressing to do, I was quite happy to sleep 20 hours a day for the first 2 days of my W/D following the GBL binge which gave me a 4 day head start on the quit as I used no kratom during that period. The quit was far more by accident than design, but I'm pleased with myself that even though i still have a bit of kratom left I've not touched it for coming up to 20 days now.

 

[consumer]

I never found microdoses of lsd did anything for my depression but never tried it with shrooms.

I did find however that DMT basically cured me of bi polar disorder. I think it rewired my brain in some way. I experienced some "downloads" of symbols and numbers a couple of times and it was like i was being reprogrammed. I have never had a manic incident since and my lows are no where near as bad. Totally manageable. Whatever happened during those downloads it fixed my problem. DMT is truly weird and powerful shit.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I never found microdoses of lsd did anything for my depression but never tried it with shrooms.

I did find however that DMT basically cured me of bi polar disorder. I think it rewired my brain in some way. I experienced some "downloads" of symbols and numbers a couple of times and it was like i was being reprogrammed. I have never had a manic incident since and my lows are no where near as bad. Totally manageable. Whatever happened during those downloads it fixed my problem. DMT is truly weird and powerful shit.

Woooo, freaky shit man!

But what if your bipolar has gone because you are no longer you - your identity having been consumed by a machine elf virus hidden within the download and replaced by an evil doppleganger whose soul purpose in life is to promote excessively heavy use of psychedelics and make my life a fuckin misery.

It would explain a lot

 

[consumer]

Woooo, freaky shit man!

But what if your bipolar has gone because you are no longer you - your identity having been consumed by a machine elf virus hidden within the download and replaced by an evil doppleganger whose soul purpose in life is to promote excessively heavy use of psychedelics and make my life a fuckin misery.

It would explain a lot

That is definitely a possibility. Never discount anything as far as DMT is concerned.

 

[Eveleivibe]

WOW loving this responses on this thread.... Those of you who have discovered alternative means lifted or improved your depression, would you be willing to write me a short piece of your experience so that I can put on the OP? If you don't wish to that's fine but the more that can help each other the better.

Serotonin based antidepressants do have a continuum in terms of how they affect people, I was on citalopram for three years but found that it had me over-react to situations and become suicidal as well as compulsively spend. I'm now on sertraline which I happen to get on with - and wish that I had made the change a long time ago. It seems to reduce the anxiety without bringing on negative behaviours.

Consumer if you are able to get hold of some studies would you be willing to give us a summary? I miss being able to access journal articles but unfortunately I'm no longer in uni as I dropped out only getting a postgrad certificate so would have to pay. I did sign up to some journal called Elsevier Journal but haven't paid much attention.

I have come full circle because whilst studying neurotransmitters etc I actually became frightened of using antidepressants because there are no specific blood tests for depression, no biological tests whatsoever yet the menial health condition is treated similar to how a biological condition would be treated, It is for the most part, trial and error. I used to lecture everyone on how "not to mess with their brain" by putting extra chemicals into their system. One codeine addiction changes all of this because we know that addiction affects our behaviour and the way in which we think. Instead of being opposed to antidepressants they were sought out in the hope of "being the cure" so to speak. After five years of anger and a lot of other negative emotions and feelings I succumbed to SSRIs.

While I do not believe they're the all time solution I feel that they have benefits. I agree with consumer and gay in that a combination of healthy living and medication is beneficial, however people differ etc. I also feel that CBT has it's benefits too.

Evey

 

[mydrugbuddy]

There is actually a small scale trial going on in London currently using Psilocybin to treat patients with drug resistant depression. The theory behind it is that a depressed persons thoughts are stuck in some kind of repetative negative loop and that a dose of Psilocybin taken in the hospital setting, but within a 'special room' made to be comforting and homely and with several psychiatric support staff, can move the patients mind out of that rut, and get them to see things afresh. Usually at some point in the trip the patient will face something pretty dark, its the team's belief that these kind of thoughts which are normally repressed come to the surface, and the psychologist can comfort and talk the patient through any dark or disturbing thoughts that may come to the fore. It is proposed that these repressed thoughts might be what is causing the depression.

I think the whole thing picks up and follows on from what the hippy writers of the psychedelic era were saying, and there were human trials done using psychedelics around that time, before governments started banning substances left, right, and center. Most strange that its taken so long for proper trials to be resumed, or at least publicised. There must have been a huge amount of red tape to cut through i can only guess. And also probably needed someone brave enough to potentially ruin their career to propose and lead the whole project.

Fuck knows how they got the permission to do the trial with Psilocybin now being a banned Class A substance, but they did. So far they have only trialled 20 patients and the results are inconclusive, but the experience seems to have helped most patients so far trialled, at least for the first few months, after that some have relapsed, which is very common in treatment resistant depression.

It seemed that simply being handed a Rose during the trip turned it around for one guy that agreed to be interviewed, for him the Rose was saying 'everything is good, everything is going to be alright etc'. I guess being under the influence of psychedelics is the only time any sane person would admit to having flowers communicating with them, but heavy trips can get completely insane in that way. It's probably not a good idea for someone on a severe downer to attempt such a thing alone & without support, the experience would be likely to enhance and intensify your current feelings and you would really need support to get through that, without it turning into a disasterous mind wrecking experience, probably!

They are currently expanding the trials, if anyone wants to volunteer find it on Google and get your names in! Only one patient was interviewed post trial, and he said that he is now off anti-depressants, still has some bad days, but has more good than bad days. He had previously thought that he would never get off anti-depressants.

 

[Sprout]

Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: a feasibility study. Carhart-Harris RL, Bolstridge M, Rucker J, Day CMJ, Erritzoe DE, Kaelen M, Bloomfield M, Rickard JA, Forbes B, Feilding A, Taylor D, Pilling S, Curran HV, Nutt DJ. Lancet Psychiatry.

Currently awaiting publication in press.

 

[Sadie]

I'm really looking forward to reading that report. I've been following various studies that have already been published. Quite interesting.

I know it's a bit of going off tangent but I'm still miffed that MDMA isn't used in talking therapy and CBT. Many trials have shown it to be ideal in addressing issues and progressing whilst in therapy.

 

[Sprout]

I'm really looking forward to reading that report. I've been following various studies that have already been published. Quite interesting.

I know it's a bit of going off tangent but I'm still miffed that MDMA isn't used in talking therapy and CBT. Many trials have shown it to be ideal in addressing issues and progressing whilst in therapy.

MDMA in PTSD Therapeutics (Full text)

"This pilot study demonstrates that MDMA-assisted psychotherapy with close follow-up monitoring and support can be used with acceptable and short-lived side effects in a carefully screened group of subjects with chronic, treatment-resistant PTSD. In this group, MDMA-assisted psychotherapy compared with the same psychotherapy with inactive placebo produced clinically and statistically significant improvements in PTSD symptoms as measured by standard symptom scales. This difference was immediate and was maintained throughout the time period. There were no drug-related serious adverse events and no evidence of impaired cognitive function as measured by neuropsychological testing. The between-group effect size (1.24) of the study drug compares favorably with other treatment modalities for PTSD (Foa et al., 2009), particularly given the treatment-refractory nature of the current sample. The clinical significance of the symptom reductions is indicated by the high percentage of subjects attaining a >30% reduction in CAPS scores and no longer meeting criteria for PTSD 2 months after MDMA-assisted psychotherapy, and by the report that all three subjects who had been unable to work because of PTSD were able to return to work".

MDMA self-evaluation study - Psychotherapeutic cognitive usage underlies the future as a tool for CBT, obviously.

The work is being done, the slow journey towards evidence based medicine marches ever onwards.