Depressed, treatment doesn't really work, want to do drugs again.

[a dream]

(I hope this is an appropriate place for this)

I got halfway through writing this post and realized it was way too long, so here's the short version:
I'm depressed: anhedonic, not interested in people, few emotions. Last year I started using drugs, starting with weed. But that didn't really help the depression much, so I got a prescription for Wellbutrin (bupropion), a stimulating antidepressant. That actually increased my motivation, and motivated me to do more drugs, so I tried a few psychedelics - all were fine - but then used 6-APB way too much, which resulted in severe anxiety. I went on an antidepressant to stop the anxiety, which worked, but resulted in hallucinations, which I then stopped with an antipsychotic. The antidepressant also caused mania, so I had to stop taking that. After that I was still feeling depressed, so I was prescribed a few mood stabilizers, none of which worked and one of them even made me suicidal.

So now I'm out of any good psychiatric drug options. I recognize this is a bad idea, but I've decided to go back to using recreational drugs. Why do I feel compelled to do this even though I think it's a bad idea?

Here's the TL;DR version of my post, not that anyone will read it:

---

I've been depressed for most of my life, but most of the time got by without any treatment. My main symptoms are anhedonia, disinterest in relationships/other people and limited emotions. In the past, my life goals gave me a reason to get out of bed in the morning, and were enough to keep me from feeling too bad. I didn't use any drugs, save for a few positive psychedelic experiences, and alcohol, and prescription stimulants during college. But now that I've achieved my main goals, I'm horribly depressed and unmotivated. I started self medicating with weed, which improved my mood somewhat but didn't help with motivation at all. After a few months, I was barely able to get by at work. I desired some sort of escape, and wanted to recreate the positive psychedelic experiences I'd had in the past. Then I started taking Wellbutrin (bupropion, a stimulating antidepressant), and that gave me the motivation to keep going, but also motivated me to do more drugs.

So last August I started taking more drugs. I had a few good experiences with shrooms, an okay time with 5-MeO-MiPT and a horrible time with 25i-NBOME. I also tried 6-APB, and enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a little too much, and used it every weekend for a few weeks. Bad idea. By the end of the month I experienced a panic attack with no apparent trigger, and had anxiety so bad that I couldn't go to work for a week. My doctor prescribed an SSRI, Zoloft (sertraline), and that instantly fixed my anxiety problem. It also gave me minor hallucinations; it started with very minor breathing-type visuals on things like pictures of galaxies of space (the Mac OS X wallpaper). Despite being on Zoloft this I continued to try 6-APB every week or two. In October I began to experience depersonalization, and then brief hallucinations of objects that weren't there, like cats, people, and cars.

In November I finally decided to seek psychiatric care. I was immediately prescribed Zyprexa (olanzapine), a sedating atypical antipsychotic. This effectively killed the hallucinations. But at that time, the SSRI was making me almost manic - I was spending tons of money on things I didn't need, scheduling lots of vacations - both of which caused me to fail to meet my savings goals, and skipping lots of work. In December, I began to see the harm the SSRI was causing to my finances, and stopped taking it. This made me more depressed again, and resulted in more prescriptions, and less drug usage.

In January, my psychiatrist prescribed the atypical antipsychotic Abilify (aripiprazole, in addition to Wellbutrin and Zoloft), as an add-on antidepressant. It didn't make me feel any less depressed, but it did provide a nice motivation boost, but I've been on it since. Around this time I became unable to tolerate weed - I'd get anxiety and my heart rate would get high, causing me to go to the ER once when it reached 180 bpm. After a month on Abilify+Zyprexa I started to develop akathisia, a sort of restlessness caused by antipsychotic drugs, and stopped taking Zyprexa. In March, after the Zyprexa withdrawals were no longer bothering me, I was prescribed Lamictal (lamotrigine), a mood stablizer normally prescribed for bipolar patients. It didn't help much at first, so I was then prescribed lithium, another mood stabilizer usually prescribed for bipolar patients. But lithium appeared to have no benefit and had unpleasant side effects, so we dropped it.

As we increased the dose of Lamictal, I eventually became suicidal, and just last Friday I realized that the drug was responsible for it. Which leads me to today. I'm tired of trying all these different psych drugs and not having good results. The remaining choices don't seem promising - anything with side effects of sedation or decreased mental capacity are no good for me, as I work in an intellectually demanding field and have enough trouble as it is getting out of bed. SSRIs are out of the question because they make me manic, antipsychotics are never an ideal treatment, and I have no reason to believe that any other mood stabilizer will help me. Which means I only have Wellbutrin, good enough to keep me going to work and paying the bills, but not enough to stop me from being miserable all the time.

So now I want to go back to recreational drug use again. This time hopefully smarter, doing more research, dosing more conservatively, spacing experiences out appropriately, etc., but I'm not confident I will really do any better than I did before. I feel like it's a bad idea. One friend said I'll end up in a psych ward.

But I've already decided, and am planning to start up again this weekend. I intend to tell my psychiatrist that I no longer want to take antipsychotics, and only want to take Wellbutrin, Adderall, and Xanax, none of which interfere with the recreational drugs I plan to use. And for the sake of honesty I should tell her I plan to start using drugs again.

If this is really such a bad idea, and I recognize it's not a good idea, why does it feel like the right thing to do?

 

[herbavore]

I think it seems the right thing to do because you know no other way.

You have self medicated and been medicated even more by the so-called experts. Drugs have become so normal in your life that you do not ever stop to question their efficacy as a solution; you simply say this one doesn't work so I took this one, that one made me feel this so I switched to that, etc. Stepping outside of this whole assumption--that you need drugs to feel whole and to function--is what I would recommend. Start at the most basic place. Are you content with your life? If not, what would you change? (Don't even worry about how you would change anything, just identify what you would change). What has meaning for you and what doesn't? Masking depression and anxiety with drugs simply does not work in the long run and makes more problems than it ever mitigates.

Can you afford to do something totally different? What about a trek, or a backpacking journey--something that pushes you beyond your comfort zone and throws you into an unfamiliar situation. Psychedelics can be transformative but not when they are used as an escape. They can be used to touch life more deeply but then they should be backed away from for a while so that you can integrate what they taught you.

Good luck. It sounds uncomfortable and disheartening but I think you are actually in a place to figure stuff out on a much deeper level.

 

[PsySci]

If this is really such a bad idea, and I recognize it's not a good idea, why does it feel like the right thing to do?

Perhaps you are imagining the anticipated results of drug use as though you had already solved your chronic problems?

I haven't sought anything out in a decade because I realized I needed to resolve my psychological/spiritual issues before I could really use drugs as tools rather than using them as a means of escape, entertainment, distraction, and being social.

What I find particularly concerning, based solely on this one post, is that drug use (both pharma and other), seems to be your only means of changing your mental state. I agree with Herbivores recommendation of doing something different. I personally have had great results from changing my diet and adding exercise to my life and advise focusing on the basic means of personal problem solving (including resolving any psychological/other issues) before using advanced tools. It seems to me that if you are needing Wellbutrin, speed, and Xanax to get by in life then you should first get well enough to live without anything before adding anything extra.

My younger brother went the other way than myself. While I have a long ways to go before I'm healthy, and while he most certainly has made substantial improvement in some aspects of his self and life, there have been many negative consequences and the amount of positive benefits are the tiniest fraction of they otherwise would be. He knows far more about drugs and brain chemistry than I ever will, but he's sorely lacking in the personal healing and healthy living and spiritual enlightenment because he is focused on the drugs rather than himself and his life.

My suggestion would be to "heal thyself" and if something interesting comes your way you'll enjoy it far more and get much more theraputic benefits from it.

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey a dream.. sorry you are feeling this way right now. I don't know where you think you will get buy going back.. drugs are drugs, some come in a colored plastic bottle with your name on it and some come in a baggy with anyone whit money who wants to put their name on it, some come in a bottle with Jim or Jack on it. That being said, the drugs you look to return to are going to manipulate the same systems as the ones that haven't worked. The big time stimulants and X compounds are going to cause mania and psychosis and increase the depression when off. The more moderate stimulants will cause hypomania, The opiates may work for a bit, but then with tolerance and addiction you will find yourself running the junky gambut just to try and feel for an hour or so how you do now.. etc. If I were you I would explore the combination of the lithium with ritalin or adderall with your DR. this may be able to get you out of your depression but keep you from hitting the hypomania to hard so you can avoid some of its downsides, spending reclusive behavior and sex, etc. Also IMO.. IF I WHERE YOU.. I would research and find a great dr for your condition... I have an idea of a good resource for you to look into and will PM it to you... Man I feel your pain on the cycle you through the psych meds routine, seems like an easy way to diagnose people for psychiatrists (yeah and IMO 80% of what they currently do will go down as the bloodletting of this century). I love how IMO they are putting you on the totally wrong drug and then putting you on anther drug to try and counteract the negative effects of that drug, but then the combination of those drugs causes, and the never ending cycle of some dr bumbling through trying to manipulate a positive permanent side effect, negative side effect free change in totally interconnected electrochemical system without addressing the cause, probably the most complex system we don't know about" with its thousands of interconnected and interdependent functions and results buy dropping one or two chemicals in.. since you seem to be very high functioning, I think Herbavore has hit the nail on the head, the reason you have a chemical imbalance in your brain causing your depression, is because your brain created it let you know that you need to and motivate you to change some of the main themes of your life, the reason it feels like shit is to motivate you to make the changes necessary, if it made you feel like rainbows instead we would never have read this thread, what is this thread, its a good attempt at getting to the bottom of a problem. How do we know you have a problem, because your unconscious mind has motivated your conscious mind to figure out the problem (thats its damn job, problem solving).. is a specific problem, no solutions to those are demanded with emotions. It has instead said I am going to make you feel crappy (depression) and not allow you to have any fun m(anhedonic) and probably make you feel miserable (anxiety) until you make the underlying changes in your life to bring it up to speed and start living the way YOU feel is important and need to. figure out what YOU value and then work towards getting it. Figure out what YOUR dream is a dream and work towards making it a reality. IMO for the vast majority of people, psych drugs for depression and anxiety, drugs should be taken as a temporary crutch to lift the symptoms in order to facilitate finding the root cause of the problem and should never be used as a solution.

How you perceive the world is how it is, your thoughts determine your perception, and your thoughts determine your thoughts The only person who knows what path you should be on is you You are in control

EDIT: nice post psysci! drugs can help you to get where you are going.. they should never be expected to pick you up, cary you there, and hold your place in paradise.. love the drugs are a tool!! other than a tools drugs are for fun. the interrelated complexity of the mind as well as INHERENT processes like tolerance seriously hamper the idea of drugs being a permanent solution.

 

[a dream]

Thanks everyone for responding...

After talking to friends, reading your responses, and doing some research, I've backed down from my original plan of jumping straight back into weed and psychedelics (at normal/trippy doses). But I haven't yet convinced myself to avoid recreational drugs altogether..

My new plan isn't much better (sorry if this paragraph is out of place for this forum). I don't intended to try to start using weed anymore; there's a chance I can't handle it anymore without getting panic attacks. I've been reading about low-dose psychedelic use and it seems like it could be a temporary solution to to bring my mood back up so I can more easily make further changes in my life and maybe get more effective results out of CBT. I may also consider GHB (well, 1,4b) since I tolerate it well and have never had problems with wanting to use it frequently.

But this new plan is just a slightly less worse version of my previous plan. There are risks - at the last minute, I might decide to double that small dose I planned to take, and have a bad trip that puts me in a much worse place. And although there are reports of people having success with low dose psychedelics, there is no guarantee it'll do anything useful for me, and I'll just be wasting time that I could have spent in a more constructive way.

My next psych visit (with a nurse) is tomorrow and I'm going to tell her that I'm not interested in any more pharma drugs. I'm also going to discuss wanting to stop using Wellbutrin in the long term. I'll probably ask her to refer me to one of the psychiatrists (with an MD) in the facility.

You have self medicated and been medicated even more by the so-called experts. Drugs have become so normal in your life that you do not ever stop to question their efficacy as a solution; you simply say this one doesn't work so I took this one, that one made me feel this so I switched to that, etc. Stepping outside of this whole assumption--that you need drugs to feel whole and to function--is what I would recommend.

Totally correct.

Stepping outside of this whole assumption--that you need drugs to feel whole and to function--is what I would recommend. Start at the most basic place. Are you content with your life? If not, what would you change? (Don't even worry about how you would change anything, just identify what you would change). What has meaning for you and what doesn't? Masking depression and anxiety with drugs simply does not work in the long run and makes more problems than it ever mitigates

I think part of my problem is that I just want to be content with what I have. I've talked to people who have done it successfully - they go to work every day, come home every day, play video games, and are generally content. But I need to think about this some more.

Can you afford to do something totally different? What about a trek, or a backpacking journey--something that pushes you beyond your comfort zone and throws you into an unfamiliar situation. Psychedelics can be transformative but not when they are used as an escape. They can be used to touch life more deeply but then they should be backed away from for a while so that you can integrate what they taught you.

I just booked a week long vacation to a tropical island. Not exactly as adventurous as you had in mind, I suppose. I'll still be connected to the outside world at almost all times. But it should give me some time to enjoy myself and relax

I don't think I'm really capable of safely having a transformational psychedelic trip right now.

Perhaps you are imagining the anticipated results of drug use as though you had already solved your chronic problems?

What I find particularly concerning, based solely on this one post, is that drug use (both pharma and other), seems to be your only means of changing your mental state. I agree with Herbivores recommendation of doing something different. I personally have had great results from changing my diet and adding exercise to my life and advise focusing on the basic means of personal problem solving (including resolving any psychological/other issues) before using advanced tools. It seems to me that if you are needing Wellbutrin, speed, and Xanax to get by in life then you should first get well enough to live without anything before adding anything extra.

I think you are right. I'm going through CBT and I'm hoping this will reduce the need for these drugs. It's already reduced the need for Xanax, which I use to sleep more often than anything - kind of want to switch to an actual sleep medication if that's all I'm using it for. (until I find a better solution for the sleep issues)

If I were you I would explore the combination of the lithium with ritalin or adderall with your DR. this may be able to get you out of your depression but keep you from hitting the hypomania to hard so you can avoid some of its downsides, spending reclusive behavior and sex, etc.

Lithium didn't help me at all... I don't think I'm bipolar. The closest I've been to manic/hypomanic has all been drug induced. My natural state is to want to sit at home all day and do nothing worthwhile. I'll only do things with other people if they ask me to and I'm in a good enough mood. If I feel like that long enough, I lose the motivation to go to work. It's very hard for me to break out of this depression, except for very occasional events like concerts and vacations, and even then only temporarily.

Also IMO.. IF I WHERE YOU.. I would research and find a great dr for your condition... I have an idea of a good resource for you to look into and will PM it to you...

Any help would be appreciated.

Man I feel your pain on the cycle you through the psych meds routine, seems like an easy way to diagnose people for psychiatrists (yeah and IMO 80% of what they currently do will go down as the bloodletting of this century). I love how IMO they are putting you on the totally wrong drug and then putting you on anther drug to try and counteract the negative effects of that drug, but then the combination of those drugs causes, and the never ending cycle of some dr bumbling through trying to manipulate a positive permanent side effect, negative side effect free change in totally interconnected electrochemical system without addressing the cause, probably the most complex system we don't know about" with its thousands of interconnected and interdependent functions and results buy dropping one or two chemicals in..

This is why I'm giving up on new pharma drugs, at least until I find someone much more competent or research something on my own that I think is worth trying.

 

[dopemaster]

I can tell you this about shrinks. Do not tell them you use drugs. It goes in your file and more importantly you will not get narcotic prescriptions like xanax and adderal. Ive been through most all the anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, and mood stabilizers. I hate that stuff. The only rx drugs I get are klonopin (which is like xanax if you are unfamiliar with it), morphine sulphate ER and oxycodone IR. I used to take seroquel, luvox, depakote, effexor, topomax, hydroxyzine, and klonopin all at the same time. My psychiatrist was completely against me stopping any of the stuff but I did. Im not making recomendations, just relating my experiences. Anyways I had to eventually get my family doc to prescribe klonopin. As far as the pain meds well I had a nasty injury and go to a pain clinic. I wish I did not need them. So all that being said if you tell your doctor you want to take recreational drugs it will not be well received and your doc may not like you cutting back on some meds. My doctor assured me I would be in a psych ward if I stopped my meds but I ended up losing alot of weight and actually becoming more functional. Also I should note that it is relatively easy to get disability if you are on alot of psych meds, you may need it if you are unstable at the moment and not really ready to work full time.

 

[a dream]

I told my psych nurse about almost ALL of my drug use the first time I saw her and she continues to prescribe Xanax and Adderall. She continued to do so even after I relayed to one of her colleagues that I hadn't completely stopped a few months later.

My only real concern is that I won't get prescribed opioids if I were ever to go to see someone in the same health group with a pain problem. But the psych department files seem to be segregated from the rest of the clinic's records - any other doctor in the facility can't tell I'm a psych patient from the computer system, it seems. They can only see the drugs I'm taking and the officially entered diagnoses.

 

[dopemaster]

I suggest you take a look at your file Dream. I got fucked over bad by some psychiatrists in the past. It almost affected my right to own a gun. If you want pain medicine you might want to go somewhere else if they say no. You can always limit how much info is released to other doctors by not signing release of information papers or just neglecting to mention some places you were treated. I had a shrink say "You really should look at your file, Im gonna fix this for you if you dont mind me ommiting most of this." He did me a big favor cuz I just glanced at what got carried over and well he just decided some paperwork should get lost.

 

[a dream]

I suggest you take a look at your file Dream. I got fucked over bad by some psychiatrists in the past. It almost affected my right to own a gun. If you want pain medicine you might want to go somewhere else if they say no. You can always limit how much info is released to other doctors by not signing release of information papers or just neglecting to mention some places you were treated. I had a shrink say "You really should look at your file, Im gonna fix this for you if you dont mind me ommiting most of this." He did me a big favor cuz I just glanced at what got carried over and well he just decided some paperwork should get lost.

Well I've no interest in owning a gun so no problem there. I assume my records are pretty detailed; I've seen one of the typed notes from a 10 minute session with a psych nurse and it filled up the entire screen. I think the mental health records are actually segregated in the computer system, and regular doctors can't see them (I go to the psych department of large health organization). I know my therapist talks about me to the psych nurse I see (both at the same facility), and I need to figure out if I can get her to not do that for some things. Because I ended up using recreational drugs this weekend, don't want to lie to my therapist, and don't want the nurse to find out about it.

I do have very limited access to my medical records online, and they diagnosed me with a mental disorder that they have yet to tell me about.

If I ever have to go somewhere else for mental health care I probably won't authorize records to be released, because the people I deal with at this organization are totally tolerant of recreational drug use and keep giving me Adderall and Xanax. Other psychiatrists might not be so nice knowing the full history.

 

[MrSexypancake]

I would say that wanting to use again isn't such a bad idea, provided you use responsibly.

It kind of depends on the drug. This was my thinking after using crystal meth for a week. I had a crappy few days of comedown, and a week turned into two, which subsequently turned into 3. Now I've been at it for a month and a half.

If you think it's going to turn into a need as opposed to a desire, just don't have anything else to do with it.