Defense Expert Tangles With D.A.

SGHteller

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Santa Barbara Independent

UCLA Psychopharmacology Professor Takes Stand in Jeschke Trial
Tuesday, May 5, 2009
By Ben Preston

The defense team recalled one teen witness and summoned one expert today in the continuing trial of Peter Jeschke — the former Santa Barbara High School tennis coach accused of giving drugs and alcohol to teen members of the team and having sex with one of them. Today’s key witness was Dr. Ronald K. Siegel, a research professor at UCLA’s Department of Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences who has written extensively on the effects of drug use. Since the case included no physical evidence, defense attorney Lara Yeretsian appealed to Seigel’s expertise regarding the effects of the drugs that Jeschke allegedly gave to the teen he is accused of having sexual relations with.

Through her questioning, Yeretsian suggested that the teen girl — reportedly a first time user of marijuana, cocaine, and ecstasy when she did them with the defendant — did not actually know what she was being given, relying upon Jeschke’s description of the drugs to identify them. The girl said in her testimony and in interviews with police that she was given ecstasy and cocaine on one occasion. However, since no toxicology report was included in the police investigation, Siegel said that based upon the girl’s testimony of “feeling loose,” and being jittery, he thought that the symptoms she described were more in line with those produced by cocaine and ecstasy substitutes containing high amounts of caffeine. He said that because the jaw grinding and other characteristic behaviors that he observed to be ubiquitous in subjects he researched by following them to night clubs in Los Angeles were not described by the girl, there was no way she could have been using the drug. “It is a life changing event when people have sex under the influence of ecstasy,” he said, referring to her alleged sexual encounter with Jeschke on November 23, 2007. “They end up marrying the partner they did it with.” According to police reports and testimony, Jeschke had given her ecstasy before they had sex. Siegel later retracted his statement about marriage as an overgeneralization.

Although Siegel explored most possible avenues to refute allegations that Jeschke had indeed given the girl marijuana, cocaine, and ecstasy on different occasions, some of his logic was predicated upon Jeschke having actually had sex with her. Saying he read the police reports and interviews thoroughly, he spoke of the sexual encounters not as possibilities, but as certainty.

During her cross examination of Siegel, Senior Deputy District Attorney Joyce Dudley attacked his credibility, attempting to show that much of his research had been conducted during the 1970s and 1980s, and was no longer relevant. She also honed in on what she said were inconsistencies between various statements Siegel made in his blithe, often anecdotal testimony. “I find my life amusing. I don’t find you amusing and I don’t find this situation amusing,” he said in response to Dudley’s tacit accusation that he was making light of the very serious charges against Jeschke. “I love my job — it’s fun.” Throughout the remainder of Dudley’s questioning, the two remained at odds, with Siegel defending lectures he had made to associations of defense attorneys regarding defense strategies in drug related cases. Although he said he had testified for prosecutors as well, he could only name Dino Fulgoni, a retired Los Angeles Superior Court judge, from memory. Dudley also touched upon a few of Siegel’s lectures and papers — one of which is titled, “Cocaine: Pain in the nose, pleasure in the brain” — which appeared to highlight the positive effects of recreational drug use.

The relationship between the defense’s expert and Dudley did not improve, and the two began arguing in raised voices at several points during his testimony. Siegel, however, attempted to deflect the attacks by making jokes and claiming that his reading glasses were not working, suggesting that he should leave the stand and go see his eye doctor. “I don’t want to put on my dark glasses and do my Jack Nicholson impression,” he said.
 
Are you illiterate? Retracted, and the statement wasn't made seriously to begin with. Take it in context. He's right though, sex on ecstasy is very profound.

Given the lack of physical evidence and the effects described by this girl, she's obviously never used these drugs. He's right, they sound more like marijuana and caffeine.
 
Are you illiterate? Retracted, and the statement wasn't made seriously to begin with. Take it in context. He's right though, sex on ecstasy is very profound.

Given the lack of physical evidence and the effects described by this girl, she's obviously never used these drugs. He's right, they sound more like marijuana and caffeine.
It doesnt matter if it was retracted or not, its not like retracting a statement magically deletes it from people's minds. Ignorant people will just hear the statement and assume it to be an absolute truth.
 
Again, are you illiterate? To make this easier:

Retracted, and the statement wasn't made seriously to begin with. Take it in context.

Don't strain yourself.
 
It doesnt matter if it was retracted or not, its not like retracting a statement magically deletes it from people's minds. Ignorant people will just hear the statement and assume it to be an absolute truth.

I think you are missing the point. You can't hear the inflection in people's voices when you read a text article. He probbaly made that statement in a kind of humorous gesture. It was a little bit of hyperbole to illustrate a point, that sex on ecstasy is a deeply effectual experience.
 
I'm with drug mentor and Avporx on this one. The "drug expert" sounds like an idiot. I personally don't think sex on ecstacy is all that profound.

And no, I'm not illiterate.
 
Hammilton no I am not illiterate, you can't simply make a ridiculous statement like that then retract it and expect me not to comment on its stupidity. I admit the first time reading it I just skimmed the article and didn't notice the statement was retracted, it is not a reasonable assumption that a statement was made in an article and then retracted on the next line imho. I still stand by my initial statement anyway.

Just because you have had profound experiences having sex on ecstasy doesn't make it a universal truth that either you or that idiotic "expert" can claim.

If a statement is retracted, whats the point in adding it in the article, its stupid, and the so called "expert" is stupid for having such a stupid comment come out his mouth on a subject he is meant to be knowledgable on.

Having a different opinion than you on the article doesn't make people illiterate, nor does skimming through an article, get off your high horse.
 
^ his statement, in context, is totally true. mdma sex and/or bonding is totally profound for nearly any user that is using MDMA correctly. that was the point he was making, and in the courtroom, you would see the context and recognize that he was making a point without being totally literal

so, you may not be illiterate, but you do make too many assumptions, and underestimate what mdma can do apparently...
 
I never got lovey dovey in a sex way on MDMA. I just wanted to sit down and talk with people, obv I thought I was making HUGE connections with them, but when 5am rolled around I was always like 'who the fuck are these people'. And when people would rub their hands all over me while rolling, ugh I hated it. I even rolled with longtime girlfriends and just wanted to sit there cuddling or something. I don't do sex and psychadelics. Except weed. I love weed sex.

So yea, for me it would be an intense experince. I may not like it though. Sounds like this 'drug expert' spent too much time in the rave scene...
 
Qwe, I don't underestimate the possibility for it, that does not mean it is guaranteed and it is not guaranteed you will get such an experience from ecstasy and sex. He made what I consider to be a ridiculous generalization, even if taken in context of it being an obvious exaggeration.

There are plenty of people who don't have profound experiences fucking on e, to suggest its not what this girl took based even partially on that fact is absurd.
 
^ never said it was gauranteed. here's what i said: "nearly any user that is using MDMA correctly"
 
However, since no toxicology report was included in the police investigation, Siegel said that based upon the girl’s testimony of “feeling loose,” and being jittery, he thought that the symptoms she described were more in line with those produced by cocaine and ecstasy substitutes containing high amounts of caffeine.

Go to http://www.ecstasydata.org and look at all the crap they put into supposed ecstasy pills. Even if someone claims it is ecstasy there is no way to be sure it contains any MDMA unless it is tested. But it's really stretching to bring in someone to determine what the pill was just by the effects someone reported. They should forget the drug aspect of this case because there is no evidence. What's the main crime? That he had sex with one of his high school students? Just focus the trial on that.
 
Define "using it correctly"? You are making the assumption that how you determine a substance be used correctly is how everyone else will. Seriously that is a stupid generalization that you have no way of proving that at all.

I don't think you can claim anything like that because its entirely subjective, I wont argue that it incrases the chances of having a profound, emotional sexual experience but that doesn't mean its guaranteed or even THAT likely which is whats implied in the article and now by you and hammilton.
 
Define "using it correctly"? You are making the assumption that how you determine a substance be used correctly is how everyone else will. Seriously that is a stupid generalization that you have no way of proving that at all.

I don't think you can claim anything like that because its entirely subjective, I wont argue that it incrases the chances of having a profound, emotional sexual experience but that doesn't mean its guaranteed or even THAT likely which is whats implied in the article and now by you and hammilton.
you are right, and i should have worded it differently

i meant: if your goal is to bond with someone, and you use the drug in a way that facilitates this (especially with psychotherapy, but you can do it on your own), you will almost definitely get this bonding effect. mdma is a very friendly drug, and with a little research nearly anyone can get very good results

of course, there are other "correct" ways to use it (hence why i shouldn't have used that word). using it as a pleasure device is fine, and if you use it "correctly" in "this sense" (aka, safely, not being an idiot about it) then you can have a safe pleasure device

you can use it for other purposes as well of course, and what you want to get out of it, whether you get that out of it depends on how you use it

that's all i was really saying. sorry for the miscommunication
 
^ Yes and I agree with what you have just said.

The whole point I called this "expert" stupid and debated that point is the fact that he has written off the possibility she was given ecstasy and fucked by her teacher because it wasn't some big emotional experience, which I hardly think is relevant, what you described is obviously not the circumstance in question.

He also talks about jaw clenches but just because she wasn't off her head completely doesn't mean she hadn't been given those drugs, or that it was moral in anyway for a teacher to give a student ANY psychoactive drugs and then have sex with them.
 
i don't think it's immoral for a teacher to give a student drugs and have sex with them. i think it depends on the circumstances. it's possible that they were in love :P

of course, in all probability, i concede, the student was probably horribly taken advantage of
 
I'm with drug mentor and Avporx on this one. The "drug expert" sounds like an idiot.

Aye, he sounds like one of those Bluelighters who think they can analyse the exact chemical make-up of a pill from a half-remembered second-hand trip report. People have individual reactions to drugs, and drugs bought on the black market can contain all kinds of things at any purity from 0 to 100%. Sure, it seems quite unlikely the girl got a high dose of MDMA if all she felt was "loose" and "jittery", but to state in court that "there was no way she could have been using the drug" is ridiculous.
 
^ Agreed, that plus a few stupid generalizations is why I made the comments I made about the "expert".

Qwe, if the girl wasn't taken advantage of I doubt she would be testifying the way she is against him, she probably would omit the part about drugs atleast.
 
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