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Deepest / most powerful dissociative?

TheAppleCore

TheAppleCore

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Jul 14, 2007
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The only dissociative with which I am significantly experienced is MXE, but I feel that it is somewhat limited, when it comes to exploration of the most bizarre and alien states of dissociation.

DXM seemed more capable of extreme mind-warping. I've yet to try ketamine, but it sounds like it could be a contender as well. I think someone described 4-MeO-PCP as the best dissociative for "holing", so that one intrigues me too.

For all of you dissociative connoisseurs, where can the deepest waters of dissociation be found? What's the NDMA-antagonistic equivalent of DMT?
 
Probably K. Haven't tried it, but it's most popular for a reason.

But as far as holing on 4-MeO-PCP, it's a very gentle and smooth kind of thing, not so hectic IME. This goes for full completely-unaware-of-body holes and the high dose experiences with a qualitative shift that some also include in the definition of hole. The latter being the best for movie appreciation I have ever come across, especially if combined with a cannabinoid (a gabaergic in the mix doesn't hurt either). Myself and at least one other person has reported the drug as likely to induce wistfulness (as to whether or not that is desirable, ymmv). I really loved it.
 
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In terms of total area under the dissociation vs time curve per one 'dose', I'd say PCP probably wins out because of the ridiculous half life.

Otherwise, if you're looking for intensity, the four that come to mind are, smoked salvia divinorum, high-dose DXM, ibogaine, high dose ketamine.

Salvia divinorum is probably the closest to DMT you can get. A lot of people find that since it acts through kappa-opioid receptor agonism instead of NMDA antagonism it is a much different and much less overly enjoyable experience. But it hits hard, fast, and it's over in 15 minutes.

DXM in higher doses (3rd/4th "plateau") can be utterly world-shattering, go read Erowid's trip reports, 'nuff said.

Ibogaine is a "broad spectrum" hallucinogen that acts at essentialy every receptor mediating hallucinogenic and pleasurable experiences known to man, it is renowned for producing incredibly intense experiences too, but also like PCP it lasts for quite some time.

If you're looking for an overall good dissociative experience, can't go wrong with a K-hole though.
 
I have to agree with sekio, and suggest primarily smoked Salvia divinorum. I have found the effects to be akin to being immediately placed in the middle of a trip resembling high dose Ketamine. I have never used Ibogaine, nor have I used DXM in high doses, and have only used Ketamine intranasally, so I can't comment on those or any alternate ROAs. But Salvia is for sure a winner if you want to be perplexed by perceiving an immediate suspension into an ephemeral dimension. The trip takes quite a bit of time to integrate and understand, however it is much easier to recollect to memory unlike a Ketamine trip, so doing so is much more achievable, in my opinion. Another good aspect about Salvia is its lack of recreational potential, much like DMT, and unlike Ketamine. It's rather difficult to describe or characterize a Salvia trip, as it is so alien to what we normally perceive, and it can definitely get on top of you very easily if you took too large of a hit, so tread lightly at first, titrate your dose until you get a feel for the head space before going all out.
Hope that provides some framework for those two substances.
 
From a subjective standpoint, PCP is way too dopaminergic to be enjoyable, at least IMHO. And I've seen people do some really stupid shit under the influence of that compound, like one of my friends jumped from a second story balcony thinking the cops were after him and broke both of his wrists when he hit the ground and fell forward. Then he ran off and threw all his drugs in the bushes, including a big vial of wet that was never recovered. I'm not saying that type of reaction is common, but its something to be cautious of.

I think ketamine is the best dissociative, but I haven't tried methoxetamine so I'm reserving judgement there. I will say that I find it hard to imagine any compound being a more enjoyable dissociative than ketamine, honestly.
 
I suppose I would go with ketamine, based just on what I've read rather than my own experience. But the answer to this question as it regards disassociatives is not as clear as with 5-HT psychedelics. Mania and delusional thinking can be extremely "deep," insofar as one understands that they are manic and delusional thoughts but holds the memory of their experience as "something possible" for them. That is, simply experiencing a state of being, even if one knows it is folly, can be valuable insofar as one has simulated the "real" emotional state and simply knows it exists as a goal to reach in future sobriety. It's a simple first-hand experiential assurance of a possibility, and that can go far in life. If I were to take this interpretation of "deep" as THE interpretation of deep I might say MXE is "deeper" than ketamine. At the same time a DXM trip might be more difficult to process than either a ketamine or MXE trip. Does that make deeper?

All of this is just to showcase that the statement "ketamine is 'deeper' than MXE," is not quite as obvious in its meaning as "DMT is deeper than 2C-C".
 
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