deep tissue massage complications?

[trainwreckmolly]

saturday night, me and 5 friends went to see a DJ at a local venue. we all rolled on a good, clean batch of mdma crystal (roughly 300mg per person) that all of us had consumed in the past with no issues. only one person in the group had complications. she had received a deep tissue massage from a local spa earlier in the day. unfortunately, i did not know about this, and the dipshit masseuse failed to mention to her the fact that a deep tissue massage will leave you very dehydrated, and you're not supposed to go out drinking or do any sweat-intensive activities that day. we were all sweating pretty hard, but nothing out of the ordinary for a jam packed EDM party. everyone rolled really hard that night and had a great time while we were there, but as soon as we left the venue, she projectile vomited walking back to the car. i'm a puker myself, so i didn't really think much of it. we went our seperate ways after the show, but her boyfriend called me panicking 2 hours later because she was REALLY out of it. she had been puking every 20 minutes since we had left, and was dry-heaving at this point. i told her to try to relax, drink some gatorade (they unfortunately didn't have any) and try to eat a piece of bread to absorb anything still in her stomach. he called me again about an hour later to tell me they were on their way to the hospital because she was barely coherent and still dry-heaving. when they got to the ER, the doctor hooked her up to an IV with extra electrolytes in it, and he came to the conclusion that she had completely flushed all of the electrolytes out of her system. she drank a shit ton of water at the show, which isn't normally a big deal considering how hard we were sweating, but apparently this left her body with no electrolytes whatsoever. they ended up keeping her overnight to slowly bring her sodium levels back up. apparently there is a risk of a small amount of brain damage if these levels are brought back up too quickly. i feel so bad because i'm the one who got her and her boyfriend into the whole EDM/mdma scene and this wouldn't have ever happened had i not done that.

so i have a few questions related to this. how common is something like this? have any of you ever had dehydration complications after a deep tissue massage, either mdma related or not?

how much do you think the mdma attributed to the complications? would the same thing likely have happened if she went to the show and got really drunk instead?

does anyone know if a masseuse is legally obligated to provide this vital information? she doesn't have health insurance and is going to have thousands in medical bills after this. i might get her to do a free consultation with a lawyer and see what he thinks, although its probably useless since she consumed illegal substances.


tl;dr
my friend got really dehydrated after rolling at a show and receiving a deep tissue massage earlier in the day in which the masseuse failed to mention it dehydrates your body, and she had to go to the ER after because all of her electrolytes had been flushed from her system.

 

[bright_eyes*]

I have received plenty of massages, one time getting one three days in a row while on a vacation, which left me extremely sore because I didn't drink enough water. When you get a massage, especially a deep tissue massage, they are basically rubbing out all the toxins in your muslces, which are now in your bloodstream. The point of drinking the water is to flush out the bad toxins now released from your massage. Now, I am pretty sure any kind of drug of alcohol immediately after a massage would not be the best idea, due to the toxins floating around in your bloodstream, but don't quote me I'm not a doctor or anything. I think either the chemical reactions from the toxins and MDMA, or the fact that she was depleted of the necessary electrolytes like you said caused her to become extremely ill. Unfortunately I really don't think a lawyer could really help in this situation, it is common sense after a massage you need to rest and stay hydrated. Don't blame it on yourself, we are all human beings and learn our lesson and the way I think of things like this is, if something bad happens, it was only a precursor to something worse lingering around the corner. Now I am sure you and all your friends will be much more cautious. Hope this helped and I wish your friend the best of luck!

 

[fakeplastictrees4]

hmm interesting topic, never heard of this before thanks for the heads up. I'd say she could have had similar complications but probably not to the same extent had she just dranken alcohol. MDMA definitely dehydrates you more so than drinking.

 

[Nottamous]

First and foremost I'm very sorry to hear that happened. I hate to hear of experiences like this with anyone.

Now let me try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge. A fair word of warning. . . I'm not a doctor so please understand the below is simply my impressions and my thoughts on the situation.

how common is something like this? have any of you ever had dehydration complications after a deep tissue massage, either mdma related or not?

I can't imagine this is very common. As mentioned earlier deep tissue massages release toxins into your blood stream as they are released from your muscles specifically lactic acid. It's often suggested to drink lots of water to help flush your system after a deep tissue massage. This flushing also (of course) can result in lowering your electrolytes and sodium levels as you're flushing these as well. Simply drinking too much water at any point can result in water intoxication (Hyponatremia). She may have very well started drinking too much water at this point well before introducing MDMA into the equation. You'll have to speak with her and/or her B/F to really understand if this was possible or not. Generally you are encouraged to avoid sweating because sweating is another way in which your body will exude not only fluids but sodium. It sounds to me (and again i'm not a doctor) that dehydration isn't/wasn't the issue so much as Hyponatremia (and specifically the dramatic loss of sodium).

how much do you think the mdma attributed to the complications? would the same thing likely have happened if she went to the show and got really drunk instead?

This is a bit tricky. First and foremost I don't think you should feel guilt in this situation as you indicated. I understand and can completely empathize that you feel bad but (and I swear I don't mean this to sound cold) ultimately it's up to each of us to try to be as aware as possible. Having said that even the most educated and aware of us can make mistakes. Finally there was (and never will be really) any way for you to know exactly what your friend had been doing that day and all the numerous pieces of their lives and behavior that can go into how someone may or may not react to something. In short. . .You didn't do this. It's not your fault. Please try to (and I know this is easier said than done) allow yourself forgiveness and let go of guilt.
Now on to the real question. Yes, I think MDMA contributed. It wasn't the only factor of course but it was a contributor for a variety of reasons both physiologically and well as mentally speaking. For example you wouldn't have been dancing as hard and as long (probably) without it. You might not have even been at that show. She might have been better able to judge when she needed to drink. She might not have vomited (as MDMA can cause some to do this). She may not have gotten as hot. That being said. . . ABSOLUTELY this same thing could have happened if she had just gotten drunk. IT also could have happened with her just staying home watching TV. As I said above we really don't know how much she flushed her system before you all even went out. We don't know what her diet was like, There so much to the equation we DON'T know that it's not at all accurate (or even responsible) to try to claim MDMA was the ONLY or even BIGGEST contributor.

does anyone know if a masseuse is legally obligated to provide this vital information? she doesn't have health insurance and is going to have thousands in medical bills after this. i might get her to do a free consultation with a lawyer and see what he thinks, although its probably useless since she consumed illegal substances.

Again her situation is beyond unfortunate. I am so very sorry she went through this and the fact that there's a financial burden now makes it worse. Unfortunately I think you're out of luck as far as this goes. The last 5 words of the above quote seal it there. . . Even if there is any sort of professional culpability on the part of the masseuse (and this will vary greatly from state to state and really should only be answered by an atty in your state) those last 5 words will negate your case.

I'm sorry. I sincerely hope she recovers fully and quickly and all three of you can move past this. I also hope this doesn't ruin MDMA for either of them forever though I can see where it might. Best of luck to all of you. I'd be curious to hear how this turns out and updates if you don't mind. Hopefully all will be well.

 

[Heh?!]

I have no scientific knowledge to drop on this topic But I do have a friend who went out drinking after a deep tissue massage and became violently ill and incoherent. He's quite the drinker, and the amount he consumed was definitely no where near what I've seen him consume before. In short, I definitely think the MDMA contributed to this. I also know that you can't blame yourself for that. I tend to question anyone new to MDMA before they take it, as far as any medical conditions or medication they are taking, but "have you recently had a deep tissue massage?" has never been on my checklist. Don't blame yourself, this is just a risk people take when doing drugs. As a knowledgeable user, you should certainly do your best to educate people, but the ultimate responsibility falls on the individual.

 

[trainwreckmolly]

thank you for your responses. i received a couple of PMs as well. she's actually doing quite well. I just got off the phone with her a couple of hours ago. she was in ICU for about 30 hours. they wanted to keep her 1 more day and put her in a regular hospital room, but she was feeling good so she decided to discharge herself. we all work together at a restaurant. she called in sick for tonight but she plans on working tomorrow night. she still has a slight headache and feels a bit fatigued but that's to be expected i guess. the main reason i'm kind of beating myself up over this is because there are about 15 people in what we call "the rage family," and they all always turn to me with questions related to the subject of mdma and/or other substances. they all highly respect my opinion in matters like this, and nothing even close to this has happened under my watch before. as Heh?! mentioned, its good to ask lots of questions to newbies before they do it (as it was only her 3rd time rolling) and i always do, but obviously "did you go get a massage today?" isn't exactly on my checklist. I'm just really glad she's doing okay and she actually understands it wasn't so much the mdma that attributed to this so much as it was a combination of several different factors. I feel a lot better about the whole thing now that she is out of the hospital and feeling good again. I've actually never received a professional massage before. I had no idea dehydration was any kind of issue afterwards.

I do have a friend who went out drinking after a deep tissue massage and became violently ill and incoherent. He's quite the drinker, and the amount he consumed was definitely no where near what I've seen him consume before.

this is exactly the response i was looking for. i was almost 100% sure something similar would have happened if she went there and started slamming beers all night. maybe not to the extent of what happened, or it could have maybe even been worse, who knows, but i had a strong feeling this might be the case.



as a somewhat humorous side note, or kind of pathetic depending on how you look at it, she told the doctor she had consumed "molly" and he had no idea what it was and had to look it up on the internet. he told her he has never had a patient be omitted with severe side effects after consuming mdma before in his entire career, which i guess shows its a lot safer than what most people would believe. he's also kind of fucking stupid considering he told her there was methamphetamine in it (which there definitely IS NOT, i have a test kit and test every new batch i get, and i went home and went to bed a couple of hours after the event, which would not have happened if there was meth in it), i guess not realizing the chemical name is methylenedioxyMETHAMPHETAMINE. apparently the rest of the hospital staff had no idea what it was either. she said one nurse came in and looked at her chart, and said "yeah you shouldn't take this medication anymore." I LOL'd pretty hard when she told me that.

 

[Andronicus]

I have received plenty of massages, one time getting one three days in a row while on a vacation, which left me extremely sore because I didn't drink enough water. When you get a massage, especially a deep tissue massage, they are basically rubbing out all the toxins in your muslces, which are now in your bloodstream. The point of drinking the water is to flush out the bad toxins now released from your massage. Now, I am pretty sure any kind of drug of alcohol immediately after a massage would not be the best idea, due to the toxins floating around in your bloodstream, but don't quote me I'm not a doctor or anything. I think either the chemical reactions from the toxins and MDMA, or the fact that she was depleted of the necessary electrolytes like you said caused her to become extremely ill. Unfortunately I really don't think a lawyer could really help in this situation, it is common sense after a massage you need to rest and stay hydrated. Don't blame it on yourself, we are all human beings and learn our lesson and the way I think of things like this is, if something bad happens, it was only a precursor to something worse lingering around the corner. Now I am sure you and all your friends will be much more cautious. Hope this helped and I wish your friend the best of luck!

Sorry but it's just not true that they are "rubbing out toxins". That is just a pseudoscientific myth out about by some massage therapists. I happen to be trained in massage therapy and they told me this crap when doing the training. That and the myth that I was "breaking down lactic acid crystals". Good grief. As you can imagine, during the many weeks of training I had LOADS of massages, normal and "deep tissue" (an undefined phrase as it happens - it's just a harder massage at the end of the day). I drank, went clubbing and so on. I didn't become ill nor violently drunk. But don't take my word for it - try to find some studies showing this "toxin" theory. You won't be able to. There is also no evidence that you particularly need to worry about your water intake after massages either. Massages stretch tissue and move blood around. That is about it. It can help with adhesions, relaxation and getting blood to an area. Any other claims are unproven. Whilst you're at it google "Post Hoc fallacy". It might help.