Debated topic online need facts - sublingual / insufflation DMT

[EarthBounded]

Hey, I am doing a little research with Psychotria Viridis.

I need to know if DMT is active with NO MAOI when insufflated or taken sublingually, this is very debated everywhere I have done my research and all I can conclude is it is hard to find the fact here.

Personal experience, I have only smoked Yellow, and white, lab grade DMT. I have never taken Ayahuasca and cannot, I have a liver problem and a switch to an MAOI diet then back and any extra stress on my liver can be fatal, plus I will just be in a bad state of mind worrying, I cannot drink a beer, I cannot take aspirin, I cannot eat anything processed Nothing involving my liver can even be experimented with even if it seems safe.

Could insufflated or sublingual DMT administration be hard on my sensitive liver? I know this is kind of a stupid question but your help is appreciated...

I do not want to smoke the DMT, I am doing extractions that do not require naptha and yield a non-crystalized product, all my materials are food grade organic ingestible. I want a more natural DMT experience without the use of chemicals during extraction. I would just drink some good ol Ayahuasca but this is not an option no matter what.

Thank you.

 

[Obsidius]

it is indeed active nasally but you need to convert an N,N-DMT freebase into a fumarate first, or you will burn your nostrils like sniffing a torchlighter. never tried the sublingual route, given that the alkaloid in freebase form might be soluble in ethanol your chance might be good, but i dont know if MAOi is already present in your mounth since its part of your gastric system.

if you cannot do oral DMT, look into plugging it.

 

[Solipsis]

I think the freebase is too caustic and the dose too high for sublingual administration. Something similar can be true for insufflation, I found 5-MeO-DMT to be iffy for that reason and the dose for that is considerably lower. It does not just sting, it lingers for a longer time than something like a 2C-X because it does not really dissolve in water. It is harder to enjoy the experience as long as you have that annoying feeling of something burning in your mouth or nose.

I have no experience with the salts, remember that a number of salt forms of DMT are a gooey mess, like the HCl. Forgot about the appearance of citrate or acetate bur fumarate should be fine. I imagine similar salts like tartrate are as well.

Personally I am going for I.M. administration from now on, then again I have synthetic product. Have you considered plugging?

Here is the subthread for snorting DMT: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=125816

Do you mind if this thread is turned into one focussing on sublingual administration? That way we have an extra ROA covered. Of course your original question can stand, but it is ideal if discussion of different ROAs is split appropriately.

 

[EarthBounded]

Do you mind if this thread is turned into one focussing on sublingual administration? That way we have an extra ROA covered. Of course your original question can stand, but it is ideal if discussion of different ROAs is split appropriately.

That's fine, I will repost in a couple of weeks and leave reports and teks. Thanks for your replies

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I know there is some indigenous use of P viridis orally without an added plant and they swear it still has psychedelic effects. I've never personally tried it on it's own though, let along sublingually (I'm unclear on if you were talking about using P viridis or pure DMT in this situation?). Some researchers have theorized that P viridis might have a little RIMA (reversible inhibitor of monoamine oxidase A) activity itself.

As for ayahuasca - P viridis + B caapi - and needing to follow a strict MAOI diet, I don't personally believe that's really necessary. I know plenty of people who don't follow the diet and are fine. The over-cautious recommendations are taken from the fact that strong pharmaceutical MAOIs have sometimes had serious interactions with foods, combined with the traditional use of ayahuasca in certain settings requiring one follow a strict dieta in for what appear to me to be more for spiritual and cleansing reasons. I know of a Peruvian shaman who eats cheese and drinks wine before he drinks huge cups of ayahuasca. B caapi is technically a RIMA, not a regular MAOI:

RIMAs are displaced from MAO-A in the presence of tyramine, rather than inhibiting its breakdown in the liver as general MAOIs do. Additionally, MAO-B remains free and continues to metabolize tyramine in the stomach, although this is less significant than the liver action. Thus, RIMAs are unlikely to elicit tyramine-mediated hypertensive crisis, and a special diet does not need to be so strictly adhered to, although eating excessively large amounts of tyramine-containing foods is still not advisable.

So, I know this is a harm reduction forum and it's best to be on the safe side, and I wouldn't advise consuming huge amounts of supposedly contraindicated foods before using b caapi for your very first time, but I personally think the food contraindications are made into a way bigger deal than they need to be and I've personally eaten tyramine-containing foods before and right after and been fine (aside from the usual craziness of an intense ayahuasca experience). So if that is your sole reason for not wanting to use B caapi with your P viridis you might want to do some more research.

I generally try to eat healthy and you of course don't really need to have anything making you paranoid while you are high, but remember no one has ever died from ayahuasca except for one single kid who died after an ayahuasca ceremony in Peru and who knows what the actual cause or circumstances was, and one person who died of nicotine poisoning from drinking a shit-load of tobacco juice (the ayahuasca was not responsible for that). When you compare that to pretty much any pharmaceutical, even Tylenol, that's a pretty damn good track record.

Unless you are saying that your main worry is that ayahuasca might be hard on your liver? I've seen people with hepatitis drink it with no problems at all... Why do you say it's "not an option no matter what"?

 

[EarthBounded]

Unless you are saying that your main worry is that ayahuasca might be hard on your liver? I've seen people with hepatitis drink it with no problems at all... Why do you say it's "not an option no matter what"?

That is my main worry, any drug targeting my Liver like an MAOI is just scary... My organs are super sensitive, I am very healthy vegetarian diet high protein and a lot of exercise. I have found a lot of plants to be hard on my body as well, they can be damaging to the Liver and Organs so I guess I just dont know how the MAOI plants will treat my body so I just refuse, it could be safe I just dont know. I pretty much take a multi vitamin and eat a ton of fruit, nuts and complex proteins, a lot of essential oils and natural products and am getting into the routine of a psychedelic experience 2-4 times a year but most of what I take is in form of a tincture or smoked (insufflated rarely). I use cannabis and nicotine daily. Nothing going into my GI tract that isn't completely safe.

So I am trying to make a very good very potent DMT tincture, by doing multiple soaks and evaporations. I am a master tincture brewer, I have brewed gallons and gallons of tincture in the last 5 years. These will be dropped under the tongue and held.

I will post a trip report and tek if it works. I have made psilocybin tinctures in every form, Alcohol, Honey, veg glycerin and wow...Especially the Alcohol when you use grain liquor its one of the hardest put you on your ass trips, So I am hopping this works to pull out some DMT from the Psychotria Viridis, I also have Yopo seeds but I know the alkaloids and content may vary with these.

I could go and get good ol White and yellow crystal but I want to develop a tek anyone can use considering you can buy these plants legally inside the USA