Dead as disco..... Not as dead as the scene.
- Thread starter bunny
- Start date
anfalicious
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I know where bunnies coming from here.
There has definately been a change in the scene in the 3 years I've been around.
I'd say it has progressed like this:
Early days - everyone knew everyone and it was a genuine underground community
Big underground - more diverse crowd, but most ppl still "keep it real", but the early days crowd rant at how the scene has changed cos they no longer know everyone.
Todays commercialism - It's cool to be a raver! everyone does it, but they dont know why, the big underground crowd rant that there's so many people who are here for the wrong reasons, in their opinions.
The Future? - who knows... as the next fad sweeps in, all those here cos it's cool will move on, leaving on those genuinely interested in being here... There will still be those who venture into the "underground" now that it is known and well documented. Everyone will bitch at these people until they become one of the crowd.
I think there will be a push back underground in the future as more and more people get jaded with the commercialisation... but maybe it wont, as those who are jaded just flicker and die...
I don't have the answers, no one does. All we can do is see what happens and support those who few promoters that do it cos they really love putting on parties, and not making money (like the EC crew).
And if you disagree with me about the earthcore guys, then take a look at feb EC last year. They risked everything to put on that event, and lost bucket loads of money due to all the fines they received. But they did it cos they would rather lose lots of money, and put on a party for us, than lose a bit of money and leave us floundering.
I honestly cant see a return to warehouse raving, as the risks are too high of putting on an illegal rave when you can just do it legally, and if it is done legally in the city, then it's too expensive to not make it a commercial event. So where do we go? Bush doofs. Something that has a smaller cost, therefore requires a smaller crowd, and will attract only those willing to put the effort of a 2 hour+ drive in to party. Another alternative is house parties. I can see this becoming more and more popular (although it already is really popular) as more and more people abandon commercial raves, but dont want to drive to the bush. I know I'd probably have a better time at a house with 30-40 people with a mate on the decks than at some big time massive (ooh ay).
Anyways, I really have to stop posting on this subject whilst under the influence as I tend to ramble and not make sense
There has definately been a change in the scene in the 3 years I've been around.
I'd say it has progressed like this:
Early days - everyone knew everyone and it was a genuine underground community
Big underground - more diverse crowd, but most ppl still "keep it real", but the early days crowd rant at how the scene has changed cos they no longer know everyone.
Todays commercialism - It's cool to be a raver! everyone does it, but they dont know why, the big underground crowd rant that there's so many people who are here for the wrong reasons, in their opinions.
The Future? - who knows... as the next fad sweeps in, all those here cos it's cool will move on, leaving on those genuinely interested in being here... There will still be those who venture into the "underground" now that it is known and well documented. Everyone will bitch at these people until they become one of the crowd.
I think there will be a push back underground in the future as more and more people get jaded with the commercialisation... but maybe it wont, as those who are jaded just flicker and die...
I don't have the answers, no one does. All we can do is see what happens and support those who few promoters that do it cos they really love putting on parties, and not making money (like the EC crew).
And if you disagree with me about the earthcore guys, then take a look at feb EC last year. They risked everything to put on that event, and lost bucket loads of money due to all the fines they received. But they did it cos they would rather lose lots of money, and put on a party for us, than lose a bit of money and leave us floundering.
I honestly cant see a return to warehouse raving, as the risks are too high of putting on an illegal rave when you can just do it legally, and if it is done legally in the city, then it's too expensive to not make it a commercial event. So where do we go? Bush doofs. Something that has a smaller cost, therefore requires a smaller crowd, and will attract only those willing to put the effort of a 2 hour+ drive in to party. Another alternative is house parties. I can see this becoming more and more popular (although it already is really popular) as more and more people abandon commercial raves, but dont want to drive to the bush. I know I'd probably have a better time at a house with 30-40 people with a mate on the decks than at some big time massive (ooh ay).
Anyways, I really have to stop posting on this subject whilst under the influence as I tend to ramble and not make sense
Baba_ORiley
Bluelighter
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Geez bfb we take you to one sunny and look what happens
These stories of embleshied youth are fuckn hillarious. Anfalicious for example:
These stories of embleshied youth are fuckn hillarious. Anfalicious for example:
scene in the 3 years I've been aroundEarly days - everyone knew everyone and it was a genuine underground community
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
yeah back in the good ol days in that warehouse listining to 9 pm n till i come and the launch HAHAHA.
Seriouisly tho, I reckon thers 2 sorts of jadedness. The first being the, I can't be arsed going out now and slowly dissaperaing from the scene(ie growing up
isnt it all about the music anyway
[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: Baba_ORiley ]
phase_dancer
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To those who have been around the scene for several years; surely you would have predicted the commercialization of rave – dance - whatever.
Many of you (as I did) probably wanted nothing more in 95 than to have a greater diversity of people accept and promote the Australian industry. So it is all but natural that the big money people eventually capitalized on it. Of course “underground” will be there, at times elusive and scarce, but always continuing to set future trends - nothing new here.
It’s the form it will take in future that may be different. At-home parties have definitely become more popular, and why not? Comfort, security and choice in the company of friends. But what if house parties became really popular? We already have (in Qld at least) EPA and nuisance laws which give police discretionary powers with noise complaints. Cops can decide it is too loud and the music’s off.
If house parties became really popular we could be in for similar stupid laws that Britain has; laws which limit not only db levels but also BPM.
anfalicious makes a good point about warehouse parties. Costs of doing it legal make it commercial. Why?
Because it’s relatively easy to retrieve a small amount at the door if your overheads are low e.g. an illegal event. And if you lose, you lose what - $1000 or so. It may be an expensive lesson, but you’ll probably survive to do it again.
But legal events require insurance, permits, local approval etc. and can cost heaps. A loss here could be much more. So you bring in sponsors and stall holders, and commercial enterprise helps close the gap. Your party now has the face of something quite different than you may have originally intended.
I have suggested this before. Find a community group that fits the face of your event. They are out there. This can solve so many problems, and sometimes their insurance will cover you, which usually equates to at least $1000 saving. Maybe it’s not “primal underground” but without the commercialization tag, it still retains something raw, and with the right group supporting you, departments will bend.
Last Year, fund raisers for disabled toilets at a semi urban property (where kids had free art lessons) allowed us to run several events outside. It was a relatively built up area but we did them without permits. There was only 1 police visit per event. As soon as they saw the sign “Fundraiser for …” they were cool. All events went all night long, with 2 going for 2 days. They were not big earners – we didn’t advertise other than w.o.m. flyers - but collectively they raised money for the toilet. We also did this with complete insurance cover…..ask if you need to know
KompleX, perhaps bush doofs, often remotely located, are the last bastion for the underground movement. Hard to shut down if you can’t find them. I am reminded of a party round Byron set deep in the bush. Heaps of punters got bogged or walked for miles or just never found it. But neither did the cops until ~7am. A good night was had by all who did get there.
Many of you (as I did) probably wanted nothing more in 95 than to have a greater diversity of people accept and promote the Australian industry. So it is all but natural that the big money people eventually capitalized on it. Of course “underground” will be there, at times elusive and scarce, but always continuing to set future trends - nothing new here.
It’s the form it will take in future that may be different. At-home parties have definitely become more popular, and why not? Comfort, security and choice in the company of friends. But what if house parties became really popular? We already have (in Qld at least) EPA and nuisance laws which give police discretionary powers with noise complaints. Cops can decide it is too loud and the music’s off.
If house parties became really popular we could be in for similar stupid laws that Britain has; laws which limit not only db levels but also BPM.
anfalicious makes a good point about warehouse parties. Costs of doing it legal make it commercial. Why?
Because it’s relatively easy to retrieve a small amount at the door if your overheads are low e.g. an illegal event. And if you lose, you lose what - $1000 or so. It may be an expensive lesson, but you’ll probably survive to do it again.
But legal events require insurance, permits, local approval etc. and can cost heaps. A loss here could be much more. So you bring in sponsors and stall holders, and commercial enterprise helps close the gap. Your party now has the face of something quite different than you may have originally intended.
I have suggested this before. Find a community group that fits the face of your event. They are out there. This can solve so many problems, and sometimes their insurance will cover you, which usually equates to at least $1000 saving. Maybe it’s not “primal underground” but without the commercialization tag, it still retains something raw, and with the right group supporting you, departments will bend.
Last Year, fund raisers for disabled toilets at a semi urban property (where kids had free art lessons) allowed us to run several events outside. It was a relatively built up area but we did them without permits. There was only 1 police visit per event. As soon as they saw the sign “Fundraiser for …” they were cool. All events went all night long, with 2 going for 2 days. They were not big earners – we didn’t advertise other than w.o.m. flyers - but collectively they raised money for the toilet. We also did this with complete insurance cover…..ask if you need to know
KompleX, perhaps bush doofs, often remotely located, are the last bastion for the underground movement. Hard to shut down if you can’t find them. I am reminded of a party round Byron set deep in the bush. Heaps of punters got bogged or walked for miles or just never found it. But neither did the cops until ~7am. A good night was had by all who did get there.
trancechyck
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i've been in the scene 4 not even 2 yrs & i'm getting a bit sick of it
i'm definitly over clubs cos i'm getting sick of wankers pinching my ass .. shit when i met KDM, Munchee, Chem_night & Pundi @ Pharmacy 4 i went up 2 them & we started chatting away like we'd known each other 4 years i spent over 4 hours chatting 2 them (luv ya boys) & thats what i miss the most going out & meeting new ppl
ever since the house party last year, i've been more in2 personal parties then commercial where ppl r going cos its the 'in-thing' & it annoys me more cos i love talking & meeting new ppl
TC
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: trancechyck ]
i'm definitly over clubs cos i'm getting sick of wankers pinching my ass .. shit when i met KDM, Munchee, Chem_night & Pundi @ Pharmacy 4 i went up 2 them & we started chatting away like we'd known each other 4 years i spent over 4 hours chatting 2 them (luv ya boys) & thats what i miss the most going out & meeting new ppl
ever since the house party last year, i've been more in2 personal parties then commercial where ppl r going cos its the 'in-thing' & it annoys me more cos i love talking & meeting new ppl
TC
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: trancechyck ]
~jerox~
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well said babydoc_vic
its a stage that we all go thru. rem those days when going out is just fun fun fun and the anticipation was just too much to handle.
Those were the days
In afew months time u will see someone else posting a thread like this again Its just a cycle
its a stage that we all go thru. rem those days when going out is just fun fun fun and the anticipation was just too much to handle.
Those were the days
In afew months time u will see someone else posting a thread like this again
Its just a cycle
BayCityRolla
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This shit cracks me up...Talk of the scene been underground 3 years ago..bahahahh cmon...Raves have been going on in Oz since 1989/90...The Sydney Rave Scene was great and underground for about 4 years...It was totally fucked by 1994/95......Dodgy promoters,cheats,crooks,mafia,backpackers selling tickets for Raves that don't exist....Shit like that fucked the scene in Sydney a long time ago....
But the Media had the biggest impact...exposing the Rave scene in 1993 after some fatal car accidents happening after an Happy Valley Rave...Before this most people in Sydney didn't know what a rave was....Now every tom,dick and harry knows....
My point is that the Scene was only truly underground for about 4 years at the start of the 90's...
Yeah I know I'm babling a bit....Just wanted to give a brief history of the Rave scene in OZ....
BCR
But the Media had the biggest impact...exposing the Rave scene in 1993 after some fatal car accidents happening after an Happy Valley Rave...Before this most people in Sydney didn't know what a rave was....Now every tom,dick and harry knows....
My point is that the Scene was only truly underground for about 4 years at the start of the 90's...
Yeah I know I'm babling a bit....Just wanted to give a brief history of the Rave scene in OZ....
BCR
The_Fuel
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- May 7, 2001
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You ppl should listen to JohnBoy (go back and read his posts)....
It's called growing up.... get over it....
Everything seems different/worse over time, thats why fashion changes from bell bottoms to miniskirts, music changes from classical to electronic, people change from nieve little idiots with no respect for their body to old gits who bitch and moan about things today....
Shit happens.... its life... you should grow out of the "scene" because the scene is gay and is not a way of life..... not until there is an olympic sport to see how long you can stay awake for with the use of massive amounts of drugs.....not until you see cops handling out kandy at "raves" ...
sooner or later your going to go and have kids.... get a life... get a big fuckin television... and all this shit is going to mean very little....
*bitch out*
It's called growing up.... get over it....
Everything seems different/worse over time, thats why fashion changes from bell bottoms to miniskirts, music changes from classical to electronic, people change from nieve little idiots with no respect for their body to old gits who bitch and moan about things today....
Shit happens.... its life... you should grow out of the "scene" because the scene is gay and is not a way of life..... not until there is an olympic sport to see how long you can stay awake for with the use of massive amounts of drugs.....not until you see cops handling out kandy at "raves" ...
sooner or later your going to go and have kids.... get a life... get a big fuckin television... and all this shit is going to mean very little....
*bitch out*
anfalicious
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Baba: I take offence to that, no I really do.
I understand that when I entered the scene in early '99 it was no where near the underground it used to be, but if you can't see it's become more commercialised in the last 3 years then you're either a) blind or b) a moron.
I've never once pretended to be a h4rdk0r3 0ld5k00l3r, because I'm not. But I do see a hell of a lot more guys from high school who used to give me shit for listening to electronic music at parties now than when I first started. All my remarks come from personal experiences, observations and speaking to others.
So I'm sorry I'm not as cool as you, and not entitled to an opinion because I haven't been around as long.
I understand that when I entered the scene in early '99 it was no where near the underground it used to be, but if you can't see it's become more commercialised in the last 3 years then you're either a) blind or b) a moron.
I've never once pretended to be a h4rdk0r3 0ld5k00l3r, because I'm not. But I do see a hell of a lot more guys from high school who used to give me shit for listening to electronic music at parties now than when I first started. All my remarks come from personal experiences, observations and speaking to others.
So I'm sorry I'm not as cool as you, and not entitled to an opinion because I haven't been around as long.
hey sumtimes it just takes one unreal night to be sucked Back into it all again and change all ur bad!! dont be destresssed i bet you wont be saying what u said afta a mad night out again! (freinds, music, fun people, u make it)
(i agree with pekkie)
you should have gone to rainbow on the weekd, you wouldA seen one million strangers smiling at you, millions of strangers chatting to everyone, dancing fun fun, great vibe, n not giving a fuck about what anyone was wearing, etc etc
if u dont like the commercial scence dont go! there are still unreal parties out there !!!
(i agree with pekkie)
you should have gone to rainbow on the weekd, you wouldA seen one million strangers smiling at you, millions of strangers chatting to everyone, dancing fun fun, great vibe, n not giving a fuck about what anyone was wearing, etc etc
if u dont like the commercial scence dont go! there are still unreal parties out there !!!
Baba_ORiley
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Sorry anf.
*shrug*
When I started in '94 and MUD was still putting on raves at Global Village there were still commercial elements to the scene... It had an underground feel tho, but it wasn't really underground, at least not as far as being illegal, and having to drive all over the place trying to find the party...
I really couldn't care less either, they were great parties, and there are still great parties now... Sure commercialism has ruined some big events, but some big events have also been absolutely fantastic...
We can't stop progress and the rave scene isn't going to do an about face and suddenly becoming fully underground again... Some people get fed up and like bunny want to take the lead in making it the way we want it to be, but there are always going to be new people who think that right now its all fantastic and new and to them right now is the best time and the time they'll be looking back towards saying 'we should take it back underground like it was back then'
Most of us have never seen the real underground and probably never will... Even I have only been to one illegal party, and helped run another...
There's elements of 'underground' raves around, but there's no way the whole scene would go 'underground'
In the same way there's elements of commericalism everywhere, and no way they'll ever be completely wiped out...
We just have to make the best of what we've got, and try to make it better... So Bunny, if you want to put on 'underground' parties, go for it, as long as there's a driving force behind it it can happen...
When I started in '94 and MUD was still putting on raves at Global Village there were still commercial elements to the scene... It had an underground feel tho, but it wasn't really underground, at least not as far as being illegal, and having to drive all over the place trying to find the party...
I really couldn't care less either, they were great parties, and there are still great parties now... Sure commercialism has ruined some big events, but some big events have also been absolutely fantastic...
We can't stop progress and the rave scene isn't going to do an about face and suddenly becoming fully underground again... Some people get fed up and like bunny want to take the lead in making it the way we want it to be, but there are always going to be new people who think that right now its all fantastic and new and to them right now is the best time and the time they'll be looking back towards saying 'we should take it back underground like it was back then'
Most of us have never seen the real underground and probably never will... Even I have only been to one illegal party, and helped run another...
There's elements of 'underground' raves around, but there's no way the whole scene would go 'underground'
In the same way there's elements of commericalism everywhere, and no way they'll ever be completely wiped out...
We just have to make the best of what we've got, and try to make it better... So Bunny, if you want to put on 'underground' parties, go for it, as long as there's a driving force behind it it can happen...
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
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Thankyou Tarsarlan, well said. BFB you should take this lead. Your posts make us laugh, stimulate emotion, and encourage communication. In short they entertain - all qualities of the perfect host
anfalicious
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Baba: that's cool, I get where you're coming from. My point is, I still believe in the late 90's the scene was more a community than it is now. I used to see the same people at every single event. Nowadays, there seems to be more single event ravers, just checking out what the scene is.
It's hard to put into words, I know what I'm talking about
It's hard to put into words, I know what I'm talking about
bunny
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Thanx phase_dancer.
I thort posting crap was entertaining, but it's much better to see everyone actually having a normal disci=ussion about a topic we all (most) feel strongly about.
I mean.... johnboy even got involved with this one.. THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD RIGHT?
And people, Im sure it will take just one night of pure fun and excitement to bring me back...
I thort posting crap was entertaining, but it's much better to see everyone actually having a normal disci=ussion about a topic we all (most) feel strongly about.
I mean.... johnboy even got involved with this one.. THAT'S GOTTA BE GOOD RIGHT?
And people, Im sure it will take just one night of pure fun and excitement to bring me back...
miss apple
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bfb....it always does trust me on that one.
why do you think I'm still around?
trust me on that one.why do you think I'm still around?
BayCityRolla
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Jerox - I'll give you quick run down of the Rave Party in Sydney during the early 90's...
Most parties I attended were located around inner Sydney and were held in old sometimes disused wharehouses which were obatined by either paying the owner of the buiding or in most cases simply broken into and used for that night....
The setup at the parties was pretty basic..A strobe ,smoke machine and some coloured lights...I think lasers came later towards the mid 90's.....DJ sets consisted of all styles been played during set and alot of time the DJ's would play the same track a number of times during night.....Creature comforts were not heard of back them....Usually the wharehouses were dirty,dusty,broken windows and so on....Chill outs were pretty basic too...A couple of couches some cushions and pillows...with some freaked tunes...
One party I went too....Was located at some sort of old wheat Silo near Balmain...But the actual techno room was to be found 40 meters underground only accessable by dimly lit steel stair cases and narrow walk ways with low ceilings and the walls dripping water and the floor covered in dirt and grime....That was prol the most full on venue I'v seen....Yeah the room was going off all night...Prol because the Trek back out was an adventure in itself....
Cost of Parties back then were around the $30
Pills actually were more expensive $50 plus..
But there was lots of acid around tooo...
Hope this Helps
BCR
Most parties I attended were located around inner Sydney and were held in old sometimes disused wharehouses which were obatined by either paying the owner of the buiding or in most cases simply broken into and used for that night....
The setup at the parties was pretty basic..A strobe ,smoke machine and some coloured lights...I think lasers came later towards the mid 90's.....DJ sets consisted of all styles been played during set and alot of time the DJ's would play the same track a number of times during night.....Creature comforts were not heard of back them....Usually the wharehouses were dirty,dusty,broken windows and so on....Chill outs were pretty basic too...A couple of couches some cushions and pillows...with some freaked tunes...
One party I went too....Was located at some sort of old wheat Silo near Balmain...But the actual techno room was to be found 40 meters underground only accessable by dimly lit steel stair cases and narrow walk ways with low ceilings and the walls dripping water and the floor covered in dirt and grime....That was prol the most full on venue I'v seen....Yeah the room was going off all night...Prol because the Trek back out was an adventure in itself....
Cost of Parties back then were around the $30
Pills actually were more expensive $50 plus..
But there was lots of acid around tooo...
Hope this Helps
BCR