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AADD Moderators: Tronica
day after drugs: scattered.
- Thread starter Strepsils
- Start date
Shnouzerpuff
Bluelighter
I find scattered Sunday's great fun.
I make sure there is never anything to be done, then just sit down at a mates flat, get out a big dumb movie (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 is a great one) which is thoroughly entertaining, without being difficult to understand or disturbing in any way.
Then just knocking back cones and talking utter codshit.
Hell I like it just as much as the night before.
I make sure there is never anything to be done, then just sit down at a mates flat, get out a big dumb movie (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 is a great one) which is thoroughly entertaining, without being difficult to understand or disturbing in any way.
Then just knocking back cones and talking utter codshit.
Hell I like it just as much as the night before.
VelocideX
Bluelighter
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wazza said:Anti-oxidants.. Probably the most important thing to have as a 'during load'
I concur. I take 1g of Vitamin C and 500IU of vitamin E about 45 minutes after I eat the pill.
I take a multivitamin about 2 hours before.
I take another 1g of vitaimn C + 500IU vitamin E about 2.5-3.5 hours after I eat the pill
I figure this way I'm covered :D
Antioxidants are most important while the drug is at its peak, not 24 hours afterwards (though they are still beneficial then)
MOTOMAN
Bluelighter
food, 5htp, vitamin c and SEX usually fixes the problem.
I used to hate the comedown...
Now i love it...Its just apart of the whole experience...
Smoke da reefer!! it just carries on the ride till the end...
Often smoking da herb makes ya slightly more sleepy. so u can catch a couple of hours sleep. When ya wake up all is back to normal..
Just take some vits, 5-htp(if u can get a hold of it), healthy food. And some more cones....N youll be on ur way to recovery......
Now i love it...Its just apart of the whole experience...
Smoke da reefer!! it just carries on the ride till the end...
Often smoking da herb makes ya slightly more sleepy. so u can catch a couple of hours sleep. When ya wake up all is back to normal..
Just take some vits, 5-htp(if u can get a hold of it), healthy food. And some more cones....N youll be on ur way to recovery......
Psychadelic_Paisly
Bluelighter
I don't understand how you can claim it is all in the mind when it is obviously a physiological reality.
You're out till sunrise, being highly active, taking drugs and voiding your body of MUCH required sleep and rest.
This is obviously going to have a toll on you physiologically the next day or two.
You're out till sunrise, being highly active, taking drugs and voiding your body of MUCH required sleep and rest.
This is obviously going to have a toll on you physiologically the next day or two.
satricion
Bluelighter
killarava2day said:
Scattered isn't just a state of mind...they day after pills you are STUPID. Short term memory fucked and so forth...
But the whole emotional side of a comedown...I think that is definitely psychological. Being a bit emotionally fragile is hard to avoid, but with a little experience you can feel it happening and make sure it doesn't overcome you.
Real depression feels different to a comedown. On a comedown you feel that your brain and emotions aren't working properly, and if you are aware of it you can feel that difference. You need to be aware that it isn't real.
The best way of doing this is to first of all have a fucking top night! If you've had a really good night then on the comedown you can kick back and think about the night and go "Wow...what an amazing night." Like Hunter S Thompson said...you've gotten amazing kicks out of things most people will never imagine.
The worst comedown I ever had was under circumstances where really it should have been pretty mild...I hadn't had that many pills or anything like that, but I had done something during the night that was pretty shitty and the morning after was emotional hell.
The drugs that I find most effective in fighting comedowns are opiates, but they're a little too nice so these days I smoke weed, sometimes have some benzos and...nitrous! Nothing gets you out of the comedown mindset like a few bulbs. How can you be sad while you're in nangland? It's the happiest place on earth.
The next day "unable to eats" I found a work around for. Getting anything into your system just helps you recharge quicker. I find come monday I am all good and back to normal after a sunday of being very unmotivated.
I like to use/eat Musashi LP1 which acts like a meal replacement with all sorts of funky stuff in there. I mean its designed for Gym junkies...replenishs sore muscles, helps recuperate body strength and generally tastes like flavoured milk when you have it so its easy to get down. I generally crave milk the next day so its like killing two birds with one stone.
Everyone talks about thickshakes and soft food....the musashi stuff seems to combine both of that...
Besides if you do any gym/sport the stuff helps you train a bit more often...
I like to use/eat Musashi LP1 which acts like a meal replacement with all sorts of funky stuff in there. I mean its designed for Gym junkies...replenishs sore muscles, helps recuperate body strength and generally tastes like flavoured milk when you have it so its easy to get down. I generally crave milk the next day so its like killing two birds with one stone.
Everyone talks about thickshakes and soft food....the musashi stuff seems to combine both of that...
Besides if you do any gym/sport the stuff helps you train a bit more often...
I aggree that its not ALL in your mind, but I think killarava2day is on the right track and I too believe that the way you think about, and aproach comedowns makes all the difference.
Personally i embrace the comedown, all part of the experience. Its minimised by food vitamins etc but the way you approach it has the biggest effect IMO.
I have some friend who will be practcally suicidal on comedowns "why did I do it" "what am i doing with my life" etc, but if i keep them laughing and tell them to look at it all from a different point of view they are fine.
Of course getting ridiculously stoned is always fun
Personally i embrace the comedown, all part of the experience. Its minimised by food vitamins etc but the way you approach it has the biggest effect IMO.
I have some friend who will be practcally suicidal on comedowns "why did I do it" "what am i doing with my life" etc, but if i keep them laughing and tell them to look at it all from a different point of view they are fine.
Of course getting ridiculously stoned is always fun
Shnouzerpuff
Bluelighter
Loch - yeah knocking back some protein shakes is a great way to give the body some nutrients.
As well as being super good for you, they are actually easy to get down in a state where food is about as appetizing as a punch in the face from a gloved fist covered in broken glass.
I drink 3 of them each day because I also go to the gym, but they make comedowns and everything sooo much better.
As well as being super good for you, they are actually easy to get down in a state where food is about as appetizing as a punch in the face from a gloved fist covered in broken glass.
I drink 3 of them each day because I also go to the gym, but they make comedowns and everything sooo much better.
esprit
Bluelighter
Have a lot of beer lying around for after a big night out on the pills I find in the morning having 6-8 beers makes you feel so much better, then if you want to you can go to sleep :D
I find in the morning having 6-8 beers makes you feel so much better, then if you want to you can go to sleep :D
Jamie Oliver
Bluelighter
I agree esprit - not only do they go down a treat but also serve to convert a comedown into the far more manageable alternative of an alcohol induced hangover
nickthecheese
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2001
- Messages
- 2,551
Sustagen sport! Seriously, it's got heaps of amino acids, such as the ones that are one or two steps before dopamine and seratonin..... *apologies for lack of scientific information, the internet sucks sometimes..*
reduces "terrible tuedays" to nothing!
plus you can mix it with milk or water and drink it like milo... It's all the fun of an after-rave meal in a handy drinkable form!
reduces "terrible tuedays" to nothing!
plus you can mix it with milk or water and drink it like milo... It's all the fun of an after-rave meal in a handy drinkable form!
Perplexed_Enigma
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2004
- Messages
- 6
From my experiences Ive found the height of "scatter" usually depends on a few critical factors. Mental Exhaustion seems to be the key factor to how scattered you feel the next day and even the onset of the scatter. If you've replinished your bodys stores I found you can generally push urself further...a good meal is always smiled upon, and an increase intake of sugar and magnesium (usually triple to quadruple the recommended dose), to supplement the amphetamines release of sugar stores in the liver and blood pH change, magnesium tends to be drawn from your muscles to correct the pH drop back to alkaline again. Anybody who gets those irritating muscle cramps n tension will find magnesium, even mixed with calcium will ease the uncomfort. As mentioned 5HTP is a mdma mans best friend...nothing worse than insomnia the morning after cause your Seratonin stores are as bare as Old Mother Hubbards Cupboard.. I find the most irritating part of the scatter for me isnt the muddled up memory, rather the role it has in overstimulating my nervous system to the point of unbearable agitation, you know those mornings when smoking cigarette after cigarette only takes ur mind off things it doesnt give u that tingle or hit.
CNS Depressants/hypnotics/opiates all give desirable suppression and depending on what you want to do with the rest of ur day its probably best to give all a shot and see which tickles your fancy. CNS Depressant hypnotics (benzodiazepines) will usually be strong enough to put you in a drowsy state of peace, depending of course on the end user, some itll knock out, others just put in a floaty relaxed state. Weaker benzos such as diazepam are good for people who arent very tolerant to depressants, then much more potent benzos such as temazepam or flunitrazepam will generally put the most stubborn at ease, commercially known as Normison and Rohypnol. If you can convince your quack to prescribe you these you're one lucky lad, without a solid story they will probably sit you down and explain the dependancy benzos build over extended periods of use.
If you cant get your hands on these or want to make the most of the day pursue an opiate option, not exactly piecing together the puzzle, but offering increased control and relaxation. Feel your CNS slow down and depending on which opiate it may block dopamine reuptake and put a grin above ur chin (di-acetyl-morphine aka heroin) as it crosses the brain blood barrier rapidly (half life of approx 2mins), weaker opiates like codeine will ease the irritation and relax muscle tension, instill smallish amounts drowsiness to some. If you find one alone doesnt work, you can always double up with a benzo and an opiate....most medical professionals warn against such cocktails due to vital respiratory function being depressed to comatose extremes (much like when those G'ers end up dosing way too high). Ive found having the benzo first then buidling up opiate dose gradually till you reach a comfortable plateua. Tired but got things to do, or cant eat, nothing an added zap of stimulant wont solve. Methamphetamine smoked (ice) of decent purity seems to restore a fair whack of functionality, I cant give any experience on oral meth consumption but im sure regulars around here could, just dont go overboard and then complain u cant sleep for another 24hrs cause ur too wired awake.
Tired and wanna pass out, barbituates are very effective to stop revive survive you're mind and body. Other alternatives which may assist in relieving some of the symptoms are herbal extracts such as Gingko Biloba, Valerian, Passionflower, St Johns Wart (used successfully to assist depression sufferers in mood stabilisation). From here ensure that ur vitamin and mineral levels are comfortably topped up, boost up ur Niacin (Vitamin B3) intake to help compensate the fatigue, doses of around 300mg range seems effective.
High caffeine intake assists binding to the adenosine receptors, these adenosine receptors soak up all the adenosine ur brain releases as u get increasingly fatigued to sound the bells for naptime, affecting dopamine reuptake in small amounts increase neurotransmitter activity in the synaptic vessels (yeh waking up sux but coffee seems to brighten up a crap day). Amino acids such as L-tyrosine may assist in the rate neurotransmitter reproduction occurs, creating the skeleton for dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine neurons. Many other amino acids are available from Health and Nutrition stores, just a matter of finding what works for the individual. Phenylanine is also highly recommended because its the building block for L-tyrosine and other hormones and neurons.
From what I can put together the most influential factor affecting the length and strength of the scatter seems to be related to mdma purity and dose (nb: cocktails of strong mdma and ma develop a stimulation peak but also draw closer the onset of scatter, as mentioned later possibly due to alarmingly low norepinephrine levels) ...with most of the mdma based pills floating around nowadays regulars will probably find this scatter wont be very pronounced unless you're approaching high single digits in 1 session. "double dumping" a weaker pill doesnt appear to drill your mind as profusely as stronger mdma pills do, drop a high dose high purity sucker and decide u wanna relive that monumental moment again you will probably find if you're not careful you will dose up too soon, and as the peak increases parabolically before you reach that "peak" the dose overwhelmes the mental energy available to harness it and bang... dont be surprised if you cant remember the people that knew u that u just had a conversation with. Experiencing a high purity mdma pill of approximately 180-200mg will change most peoples views on "peaking", a peak lasting 5-6hrs and a euphoric feeling like no other, suddenly you love everybody, even that guy that wont stop trying to hit on your girlfriend, you cant help but shake his hand instead of politely break his nose.
From what I can understand and have examined on personal experience the "Scatter" is the blood clot when you rip your knee open, ur minds way of protecting it self from too much damage and isolating it while it begins repair. Short term memory capacity and function appear to have some relation with the low norepinephrine levels from the strenuous physical activity, increased adrenaline release and mobilisation that amphetamines trigger to cover up the fatigue component of your body, not till they wear off do you suddenly get left with little if no physical capacity, and muscle pains. Norepinephrine transmits the primary control function to the mind, carrying messages around to nerves bodywide determining how we move and with what degree of muscular precision (low norepinephrine appears to be associated with jerky movement, lethargy, poor focus and concentration, short attention span, trembling hands and poor judgement)
Ive come across many people who experience all different sorts of comedowns and scatters, while I dont seem to experience the "come-down" as such, the scatter isnt very friendly either. This is just based on my experiences and my knowledge/understanding so feel free to add or correct anything i missed or confused.
Michael
CNS Depressants/hypnotics/opiates all give desirable suppression and depending on what you want to do with the rest of ur day its probably best to give all a shot and see which tickles your fancy. CNS Depressant hypnotics (benzodiazepines) will usually be strong enough to put you in a drowsy state of peace, depending of course on the end user, some itll knock out, others just put in a floaty relaxed state. Weaker benzos such as diazepam are good for people who arent very tolerant to depressants, then much more potent benzos such as temazepam or flunitrazepam will generally put the most stubborn at ease, commercially known as Normison and Rohypnol. If you can convince your quack to prescribe you these you're one lucky lad, without a solid story they will probably sit you down and explain the dependancy benzos build over extended periods of use.
If you cant get your hands on these or want to make the most of the day pursue an opiate option, not exactly piecing together the puzzle, but offering increased control and relaxation. Feel your CNS slow down and depending on which opiate it may block dopamine reuptake and put a grin above ur chin (di-acetyl-morphine aka heroin) as it crosses the brain blood barrier rapidly (half life of approx 2mins), weaker opiates like codeine will ease the irritation and relax muscle tension, instill smallish amounts drowsiness to some. If you find one alone doesnt work, you can always double up with a benzo and an opiate....most medical professionals warn against such cocktails due to vital respiratory function being depressed to comatose extremes (much like when those G'ers end up dosing way too high). Ive found having the benzo first then buidling up opiate dose gradually till you reach a comfortable plateua. Tired but got things to do, or cant eat, nothing an added zap of stimulant wont solve. Methamphetamine smoked (ice) of decent purity seems to restore a fair whack of functionality, I cant give any experience on oral meth consumption but im sure regulars around here could, just dont go overboard and then complain u cant sleep for another 24hrs cause ur too wired awake.
Tired and wanna pass out, barbituates are very effective to stop revive survive you're mind and body. Other alternatives which may assist in relieving some of the symptoms are herbal extracts such as Gingko Biloba, Valerian, Passionflower, St Johns Wart (used successfully to assist depression sufferers in mood stabilisation). From here ensure that ur vitamin and mineral levels are comfortably topped up, boost up ur Niacin (Vitamin B3) intake to help compensate the fatigue, doses of around 300mg range seems effective.
High caffeine intake assists binding to the adenosine receptors, these adenosine receptors soak up all the adenosine ur brain releases as u get increasingly fatigued to sound the bells for naptime, affecting dopamine reuptake in small amounts increase neurotransmitter activity in the synaptic vessels (yeh waking up sux but coffee seems to brighten up a crap day). Amino acids such as L-tyrosine may assist in the rate neurotransmitter reproduction occurs, creating the skeleton for dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine neurons. Many other amino acids are available from Health and Nutrition stores, just a matter of finding what works for the individual. Phenylanine is also highly recommended because its the building block for L-tyrosine and other hormones and neurons.
From what I can put together the most influential factor affecting the length and strength of the scatter seems to be related to mdma purity and dose (nb: cocktails of strong mdma and ma develop a stimulation peak but also draw closer the onset of scatter, as mentioned later possibly due to alarmingly low norepinephrine levels) ...with most of the mdma based pills floating around nowadays regulars will probably find this scatter wont be very pronounced unless you're approaching high single digits in 1 session. "double dumping" a weaker pill doesnt appear to drill your mind as profusely as stronger mdma pills do, drop a high dose high purity sucker and decide u wanna relive that monumental moment again you will probably find if you're not careful you will dose up too soon, and as the peak increases parabolically before you reach that "peak" the dose overwhelmes the mental energy available to harness it and bang... dont be surprised if you cant remember the people that knew u that u just had a conversation with. Experiencing a high purity mdma pill of approximately 180-200mg will change most peoples views on "peaking", a peak lasting 5-6hrs and a euphoric feeling like no other, suddenly you love everybody, even that guy that wont stop trying to hit on your girlfriend, you cant help but shake his hand instead of politely break his nose.
From what I can understand and have examined on personal experience the "Scatter" is the blood clot when you rip your knee open, ur minds way of protecting it self from too much damage and isolating it while it begins repair. Short term memory capacity and function appear to have some relation with the low norepinephrine levels from the strenuous physical activity, increased adrenaline release and mobilisation that amphetamines trigger to cover up the fatigue component of your body, not till they wear off do you suddenly get left with little if no physical capacity, and muscle pains. Norepinephrine transmits the primary control function to the mind, carrying messages around to nerves bodywide determining how we move and with what degree of muscular precision (low norepinephrine appears to be associated with jerky movement, lethargy, poor focus and concentration, short attention span, trembling hands and poor judgement)
Ive come across many people who experience all different sorts of comedowns and scatters, while I dont seem to experience the "come-down" as such, the scatter isnt very friendly either. This is just based on my experiences and my knowledge/understanding so feel free to add or correct anything i missed or confused.
Michael
VelocideX
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Perplexed_Enigma said:
I disagree.... If low extracellular noradrenaline levels were entirely to blame then you should feel much much more scattered off speed comedowns -- (meth)amphetamine is the typical noradrenaline releaser.
Instead people find MDMA and (especially) MDA comedowns to have a unique feeling, and it seems the serotonin system must be involved somehow.
Moreover I've tried taking reboxetine (a selective noadrenaline reuptake inhibitor - NARI) on comedowns and whilst it makes me feel a bit more awake and a little better, the scattered feeling remains.
Though noradrenaline obviously plays some part in motor function, I think you're confusing it with dopamine. Dopamine plays a large part in what you've described above. In any case, the dopamine system is far more resilient than the serotonin one.
Your suggestions for scatteredness remedies are good ones, but they appear to be founded on hearsay as to the roles of various neurochemical systems.
satricion
Bluelighter
Perplexed_Enigma said:
Yo mate, some great info in this post but I just wanted to make a few comments...first of all temazepam (normison) is *not* a strong benzodiazepine...in fact it is one of the weakest. You're right that rohypnol is one of the strongest though, and hence most useful on a comedown. Diazepam (valium) is stronger than temazepam.
I used to think that a benzo was a benzo and as long as you compensated for their different strengths by changing the dosages then it would all end up the same. This is not the case. I am a very big fan of benzos both recreationally and on comedowns. Because I moderate my use, my tolerance is such either 10mg of nitrazepam or 15mg of diazepam, combined with three beers will put me in a state of hazy, beautiful bliss. These are the two benzos I generally have, but recently I got the opportunity to get a lot of temazepam cheaply and I can tell you the difference is VERY distinct.
I have now realised why some benzos are prescribed for anxiety and some for insomnia. Temazepam is very weak and has no recreational potential as far as I'm concerned. Last night I took 150mg (not a typo) of temazepam over the course of three hours and combined it with four beers. I felt nothing but a bit of sedation. As I mentioned earlier, 10mg of nitrazepam and three beers would give me hours of bliss. Temazepam is an insomnia benzo...nitrazepam and diazepam (which I also love) are more prescribed for anxiety and that's what makes them recreational when combined with a some alcohol (but not too much booze. Mixing too much booze and too much benzos CAN KILL YOU.)
But on the comedown issue, any benzo will help. I would prefer pretty much anything else over temazepam, but on a comedown when your muscles feel like shit and you need something to relax your mind and body, temazepam will definitely relax your body and make you a little sleepy.
Just a quick comment...the half life of a drug refers to how long it takes for half of it to be metabolised and out of your system...the half-life of heroin is much longer than two minutes. More like a few hours.
Barbituates would be great I'm sure, but how many people can get them? I've never heard of them being available on the black market at all. If you're just feeling shitty and need something to pass you out and sleep, there are OTC sleeping pills with doxylamin succinate in them (sold as Restavit) which will just straight knock you the fuck out. One of them knocks me out cold for 10 hours of sleep, but when I wake up I end up feeling dizzy and shitty for a couple more hours. So if you can deal with the aftereffects of them and you just need to sleep, one or a few Restavit's work great.
Basically the best thing for comedowns is nutrients and sleep. I generally drink a protein shake mixed with some Bailey's (it's like milk, but with alcohol in it!), pop some vitamins and some benzos, and then smoke bongs until my memory is about three seconds long. Nitrous is also a must to get you out of that 'i feel shit' mindset into that 'wow that was a killer nang' mindset. Talk shit with mates, watch cartoons and then pass out for 12 hours whenever it feels convenient to do so.
If you're going to take pills, make sure you have two days free afterwards so that you can enjoy the high, and the comedown to their full.
Perplexed_Enigma
Bluelighter
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- 6
Im surprised that Restavit has that effect on you, i gave up on it after consuming 4 tablets at once and i still couldnt get to sleep, i find its much too weak. CNS Depressants are the only things that appear to work for me, strangely enough.
I was thinking..for Meth. Would SSRI's assist with getting a decent sleep?
I was thinking..for Meth. Would SSRI's assist with getting a decent sleep?
satricion
Bluelighter
^^
You mean because of serotonin's role in sleep patterns? I'm no huge authority on the role of serotonin in regulating sleep, but I do know that when prescribed for depression and other mood disorders, SSRI's take a while to start working, like a week or more. I doubt that the change in the levels and activity of serotonin in your brain that will result from a one off dose will be enough to do anything for your ability to sleep that night. SSRI's are not an instant serotonin increaser.
With regards to your comment on Restavit, you're not the only person I've encountered who thinks that. Perhaps I am just unusually sensitive to doxylamine succinate...I first encountered them when I had serious insomnia, but I only took them for that once because I prefered to toss and turn all night and be tired the next day than have to endure the hours of fucked up ness that I would experience the day after taking them to sleep. If I take one 25mg Restavit at 10pm, I make sure I don't have *anything* to do or think about until at least lunchtime the next day. The difference between restavit and things like benzos is very noticable though...
Benzos will relax your body and your mind and chill you out so that you can go to sleep. You can feel them doing that. Restavit just knocks me the fuck out, straight up. One tablet and after half an hour my mind hazes over I'm asleep regardless of what I want to do. I would only use these on comedowns if I didn't have time to enjoy the scattered day after by smoking bongs with mates and absolutely had to get a solid block of sleep in because of some other commitment.
You mean because of serotonin's role in sleep patterns? I'm no huge authority on the role of serotonin in regulating sleep, but I do know that when prescribed for depression and other mood disorders, SSRI's take a while to start working, like a week or more. I doubt that the change in the levels and activity of serotonin in your brain that will result from a one off dose will be enough to do anything for your ability to sleep that night. SSRI's are not an instant serotonin increaser.
With regards to your comment on Restavit, you're not the only person I've encountered who thinks that. Perhaps I am just unusually sensitive to doxylamine succinate...I first encountered them when I had serious insomnia, but I only took them for that once because I prefered to toss and turn all night and be tired the next day than have to endure the hours of fucked up ness that I would experience the day after taking them to sleep. If I take one 25mg Restavit at 10pm, I make sure I don't have *anything* to do or think about until at least lunchtime the next day. The difference between restavit and things like benzos is very noticable though...
Benzos will relax your body and your mind and chill you out so that you can go to sleep. You can feel them doing that. Restavit just knocks me the fuck out, straight up. One tablet and after half an hour my mind hazes over I'm asleep regardless of what I want to do. I would only use these on comedowns if I didn't have time to enjoy the scattered day after by smoking bongs with mates and absolutely had to get a solid block of sleep in because of some other commitment.