Hi all, does anyone have any info on the damage caused by methylone and methadrone ? info seems pretty scarce on the internet. Im of the impression it's pretty nasty and to be avoided. I ask as allot of whats being sold as ecstasy/mdma seems to contain it nowadays (i suspect due to raids/shortages of safrole in MD production).
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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
Dangers of Methylone and Methadrone ?
- Thread starter 90sdance
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sekio
Bluelight Crew
It's pretty much of the same nature of that of MDMA; they're both triple monoamine releasers.iv heard both are pretty addictive as compared to mdma. are they not closer to amphetamines ? they target dopamine more than md ?. their called ''bath salts'' in the US ?, iv heard bad things. in any case, presumably they would be even more dangerous than in isolation if they where mixed with mdma ?
sekio
Bluelight Crew
You've been trying a little too much of the kool aid from Ecstacty Discussion
Methylone isn't any more dangerous than MDMA, really. It provides a different sort of headspace and is disappointing if you're expecting MDMA, but it's quite pleasant on its own.
MDMA is closer to an amphetamine in terms of structure; methylone and friends are cathinones. Methylone itself is actually more selective for norepinephrine than anything else but it still releases dopamine and serotonin, just in a different ratio than MDMA.
More addictive? Maybe, but that's probably because they are considered to be less 'intense' than MDMA at comparable doses.endotropic
Bluelight Crew
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You've been trying a little too much of the kool aid from Ecstacty Discussion
Methylone isn't any more dangerous than MDMA, really. It provides a different sort of headspace and is disappointing if you're expecting MDMA, but it's quite pleasant on its own.
MDMA is closer to an amphetamine in terms of structure; methylone and friends are cathinones. Methylone itself is actually more selective for norepinephrine than anything else but it still releases dopamine and serotonin, just in a different ratio than MDMA.
More addictive? Maybe, but that's probably because they are considered to be less 'intense' than MDMA at comparable doses.
Is there anything you can extrapolate from their structures? Doesn't something about the methylenedioxy ring contribute to MDMA's toxicity (something about ring opening giving reactive oxygens)? Don't other 4 methyl amphetamines show increased dopaminergic toxicity?mixed with mdma it would be even more dangerous presumably. their both serotonin reuptake inhibitors. on it being addictive, it is afaik, and seems to have a nastier overall effect on people (comedown/depression ect). md has (far) less negative effects. the neurotoxicity is definitely higher with this stuff, im just wondering how much.Last edited:
Jackeh
Bluelighter
Both mephedrone and methylone seem to be non-neurotoxic (or at least considerably less than MDMA as far as I can remember). Both of the structures minus the beta ketone group (methamphetamine and MDMA) are both neurotoxic. This has lead some people to think (I think I read it on this forum on some thread) that the beta ketone moiety seem to negate dopaminergic neurotoxicity on 4- substituted compounds (at least with the amphetamine skeleton anyway).
I may be wrong here though as these are things I've read elsewhere and I'm not that great with pharmacology yet.electrodevo
Bluelighter
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I've noticed more reports indicating that methylone is more "moreish".
It does make sense that a drug that releases dopamine in a higher ratio would be more "moreish" than a drug that doesn't. Nonetheless, the behavior profile of methylone is more like a mixed uptake inhibitor / releaser (ala MDMA)... not a pure releaser like amphetamine or methamphetamine.
I've heard of binge stories on methylone... my "impression" is that it is more frequent than MDMA... but nothing like heavy dopamine leaning chemicals (say cocaine, methamphetamine, MDPV, etc.) I don't think I've heard of a methylone binge that went into amphetamine psychosis territory. I guess it's possible... maybe...
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
A Nichols et al. study (1999?) found methylone (and 4fa) to lack mdma-like neurotoxicity (this was assayed via administration of several large doses to mice and examination via autopsy, looking for axon-pruning, cell death, and 5ht depletion). Another study found mephedrone to fail to cause MDMA-like depletion of 5ht, but I'd wait for replication, as mephedrone's balanced releasing profile screams of neurotoxicity.
Everyone: please remember mePHedrone is differernt from meTHadrone, the latter being worried about as having PMA's effect-profile (concurrent MAOI activity).
ebola
SeenSoFar
Bluelighter
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I'd just like to point out that strong 5-HT release does NOT automatically equal neurotoxicity. Just look at Naphthylaminopropane, a.k.a. PAL-287: It is a strong triple monoamine releaser as well as a non-selective 5-HT2 agonist, and yet it is non-neurotoxic[1]. Clearly, there is more to the neurotoxicity of a compound than just it's ability to cause strong monoamine release. Assuming mephedrone is neurotoxic with no experimental evidence to back it up based solely on its 5-HT releasing ability is illogical in the face of such evidence.
Keep in mind, this is not an arguement against mephedrone's serotonergic neurotoxicity either; it could very well be neurotoxic to serotonergic neurons; the point is that the data is insufficient to draw a conclusion one way or another, and that is how things will remain until someone does a study specifically on the serotonergic neurotoxicity of mephedrone.
[1] - http://m.jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/313/3/1361.fullok. and if mephadrone was mixed with mdma in pill form that would make it dangerous to consume as their both sert reuptake inhibitors ? it would have a different possibly more toxic effect than either in isolation ? also, iv heard about mephodrone causing people heart problems ?
MagickalKat777
Bluelight Crew
Mephedrone is definitely harder on the heart than MDMA. It has ephedrine metabolites which are notoriously cardiotoxic. 4-methylephedrine if I remember correctly in the case of mephedrone.
I've mixed mephedrone with MDMA and it ruined the MDMA. I ended up chasing the mephedrone high all night because when the mephedrone would wear off, it would kill the MDMA until I redosed. The comedown was absolute hell as well. Best to save MDMA for something else.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
I thought that same study also looked for markers of 5ht-depletion (and reduced synthesis).
ebola