CWE Codeine What's the purpose of Warm water?

[oldabba]

Various instructions for extracting codeine using CWE say to use warm water in the first place after crushing the tabs.

But what's the purpose of that? Codeine appears to be more soluble in cold water - kinda the essential 'secret' of the technique. So why not start with cold water and stay with cold water?

Starting with warm simply promotes the absorption of paracetemol or ibuprofen which you then try to crystallize out of solution by lowering the temp in the freezer, don't you/we?

 

[Bman2]

I don't have the exact answer but I remember hearing some science behind warm water turning cold quicker than lukewarm water or something. I don't know I may be a little off here, it might be to speed up the process but yea that step isn't even necessary & I would just start with lukewarm/cool water to begin with.

 

[jackie jones]

I do not know what you read, but cold water is a necessity (I wait until ice crystals are beginning to form). If the water is warm or too high a volume, the acetaminophen will dissolve.

It is pretty simple: 1/6 of a water bottle full to every 10 pills, crush the pills finely, add powder to bottle, shake for one minute, then use a dress shirt to filter.

 

[oldabba]

Well what I read is the thread here that gets pointed to in various places on the web: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Cold_Water_Extraction_of_Opioids

Many folks say 'warm water'. Never 'room temp' or 'cold'.

After dissolving the tabs (crushed or uncrushed, depending on the teller) they then say to cool the mix.

When cool enough they say to filter. Some say filter many times.

There's a thread here at http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/129082-doing-codeine-cold-water-extraction-effectively/page2 with a brilliant post by 'peaked' that I found very interesting.

It points to differences in yield across various brands (or 'peaked' does and he certainly seems to know). That tallies with what I'm experiencing and why I'm pursuing further knowledge.

My problem is recent and hopefully temporary. A bad tooth got pulled and left a 'dry socket' and I've been living with pain I don't like for three weeks now. Hopefully it's all going to end now because I seem to be getting some benefit from an antibiotic.

But after two weeks I didn't want any more Paracetamol or Ibuprofen. The kidney and liver danger we're warned of frightened me off.

So I thought I'd just use codeine. And increase that dose. Now I find I can't safely do that: the safe dosage is something like 240mg a day and that's where I was at with the doctor's prescribed panadeine forte. 240mg/day codeine PLUS 8 x 500mg paracetamol.

Fortunately, as I say, the pain is backing off, the antibiotic must be working perhaps. Some bone got ripped out with the tooth, too, that'd be maybe healing now, etc...

So I can get by with 240 Codeine and just the occasional straight Panadol or Ibuprofen.

So that's what I've been trying to do.

But the Codeine I get seems to vary. Some doesn't seem to be as strong. Doesn't taste so bitter. 'Peaked', I think, mentioned the bitterness as a measure.

So I wonder about getting the technique just right.

I check the solubility. That seems okay. The Codeine checks out at say 1 gram per mL, taking a rough average between the solubility at 25 and at 35.

The paracetamol checks out. At least 30 times less soluble. At 21 Degrees it's 1gram to 150mL against 1gm to 0.7mL and at 31 Degrees it's 1gm in 70mL against 1gm in 2.3mL.

So at 31 degrees we'll get 30x as much paracetamol in the liquid as we get codeine.

and when we cool it down to 21 degrees much of that must precipitate out to where the ratio will be 1:70.

That's a nice safe ratio.

BUT: will it work like that? That's the solubility. But it has to get into solution somehow first. How hard is that? What must be done? Typically things don't mix unless they're mixed. And the amount of mixing needed might vary wildly. How much mixing does this need?

And have chemists put something else in there that can block this action?

Some large molecule that binds to the codeine and won't let it through the filter?

Is that the reason for going to 'lukewarm' water instead of straight to cold water?

And the amount of water - I wondered about that. I use 100mL for a codeine amount of 100mg because that gives me a nice 1:1 measure. I can dole out 20ml and know that's supposedly only 20mg of my 240mg daily allowance.

The water required to contain 100mg should only be - what? 0.7mL? Surely that's not right?

Check: they say solubility at 21degrees celsius for codeine = 1g in 0.7mL.

Well I'm going for 100 mg. Milligrams. One tenth of a gram. So that should only require 0.07 mL of water. Right?

Looks right to me. So there's no problems with the water. It's virtually irrelevant as reqards this.

And all of that ( was it incredibly tedious reading it all? sorry... tooth hurts.. can't think too good.. and the kids, or one of them... love him.. but...) is what brought me here with my little questions....

Another definitive description of the technique would be good, I feel. Covering those things I've worried about.



what'd be better would be another painkiller without any side effects, toxic effects, or bullshit frowning from the law (dedicated to never helping anyone but preying on everyone, it sometimes seems, doesn't it, god forbid it's true...)

 

[Survival0200]

The tablets will dissolve faster with warm water. But if you have the time and patience of using cold water in the first place, then go for it!