Bupe Curious about coming off dope to bupe.

[Bomb319]

I've heard that going directly to bupe from a moderate to heavy h habit will still make you feel withdrawal symptoms. I'm wondering what I would expect to feel coming off onto an appropriate dose of subs. Will I at least have energy but not puke? After while will I feel any euphoria at all from it? Does it just take away withdrawal and make you feel "normal" without h? Also, what advantages do subs have over methadone, other than being easier to get off of? Would methadone be a better choice to stave off withdrawals and still get some opiate effects?

I'm farily confident I could stay away from the needle. That is not the major lure for me. I would personally be happy with an unlimited supply of percocets without ever feeling the need to shoot. Given this, how do subs compare to percs in terms of feeling? Thanks.

 

[i are spectre]

if you dont want to quit, go on methadone because youll get your high still (for a while anyway). bupe is a partial agonist and feels rather lame. though methadone withdrawal is probably one of the worst.

if you do want to quit, go with bupe because the withdrawal isnt as bad as methadone. but as you said, you want to still feel good...

 

[Bomb319]

I still am chasing the opiate high to some extent, yes, although I'm sure I would at least make a solid effort if I had no withdrawal. If it ends up being something like still feeling sick, depressed, and no energy with less diarrhea and sweating, it doesn't seem appealing. Also with methadone, it seems a pain to constantly have to pick up at the pharmacy. Ideally I would want a big bottle of pills that take away withdrawal and leave me with something akin to a codeine buzz.

 

[DoctorShop]

When you first start on a program they won't let you have take aways right away. That is my experience anyway. Depends on the country, state, etc.

I used to get high from Suboxone, but for only 4 hours. I started on a huge dose of 24mg though. And by the time I was on less then 1mg there was no longer a high associated with using it. I did taper slowly though.

It's a different kind of high, it doesn't make you nod like H etc. I guess it sort of reminds me of a low dose of oxycontin, has a slight speedy quality to it. Opiates tend to do that to me though.

It's good for when you want to get clean. Not sure if it will be right for you though.

 

[DrugOmen]

The subs will take away all of your withdrawals but maybe not for the first few days as you transition. IME when you wake up in the morning feeling some withdrawal then taking your subs will sort of give you a buzz, but it is mainly the feeling of taking your withdrawals away with just a little extra. If i were you i wouldnt go on methadone because yes you will feel a high at first but it wont last long and you will be in the same boat as buprenorphine except methadones withdrawals are fucking horrible. Similar to how you feel at the peak of your H withdrawals but about 10 times longer.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

if you dont want to quit, go on methadone because youll get your high still (for a while anyway). bupe is a partial agonist and feels rather lame. though methadone withdrawal is probably one of the worst.

if you do want to quit, go with bupe because the withdrawal isnt as bad as methadone. but as you said, you want to still feel good...

Methadone withdrawal after long-term use is indescribable torture that lasts for an extremely long time. Methadone really does not compare to a heroin high at all and after being on a stabile dose for a couple weeks or a couple months (depending on the person) you don't get any high off it anymore anyway. This is why so many people on methadone continue to use heroin. If methadone got them high, they would not need heroin.

 

[Bomb319]

My H withdraws are so hellish. I lie in bed literally for days, soaking the bed with sweat, getting ready to puke, eating nothing, shivering, and craving & obsessed with no hope. I'd do anything to avoid them.

 

[i are spectre]

well methadone withdrawal is worse and lasts longer. maybe its time to bupe up and maybe even sober up.

 

[Bomb319]

I would be almost eager to quit if I had subs. The idea of taking a w/d preventing pill is more than good enough for me. The rush of IV has never really been the nirvana it seems to be for many. I mean don't get me wrong, it's amazing with good quality dope and I certainly love the feeling, but I can honestly say drinking a tall cold glass of water after exercising is better - pretty much the best rush/feeling in the world.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^Well, do you think you are ready to quit opioids then? You could do a Suboxone taper, where you just go on Subs for a short time and quickly taper off, which makes the withdrawals much better than if you take Suboxone long-term. But you need to deal with your mental addiction and learn to cope with cravings. Whether you'd prefer a short stint + taper or long term maintenance, there are plenty of Suboxone clinics in Vancouver, you could probably get on it right away (you have to wait 24 hrs from your last heroin dose before you take it though). The only advantage methadone really has is that it is cheaper, which is totally not worth it as it has many disadvantages. I just spent over a year tapering off methadone, quit a couple months ago and still feel horrible, I would not wish this on anyone. If I had known what I was getting into I would have just sucked it up and quit heroin, heroin withdrawal seems minor now in comparison to quitting methadone. And you will have no freedom being on methadone, you are treated way shittier than if you are on Suboxone and have to go to the pharmacy every day for much longer with methadone.

 

[DoctorShop]

Swimmingdancer is right. On Suboxone you can slowly learn to cope with your opiate cravings and drop slowly. I was on Suboxone for three years. And if it takes you three years, five years, whatever, it's better then fucking dying.

 

[Bomb319]

Those are my thoughts exactly. How much are subs anyway in Canada on average, and do they give you a bunch at once to take home? Is there a ceiling effect if you were to take extra?

 

[DrugOmen]

we arent aloud to talk any kind of prices on here but 32 mg is usually the ceiling effect sometimes 24 mg. The less you take the better it will feel with subs.

 

[SkagKush]

im in van, id call ahead... first time it took me two weeks to get on bupe...

was a different story when i went to detox... they had to write me a script

 

[Swimmingdancer]

im in van, id call ahead... first time it took me two weeks to get on

I assume you went to a free clinic? A private one should be able to get you in right away. They are usually like $40-$80 a month for the clinic fees. We aren't allowed to discuss drug prices and the price will depend on the dose, how often you have to pick it up (in the beginning you have to go to the pharmacy every day), and the pharmacy fees. It's still gotta be a lot cheaper than the average heroin habit.

 

[SkagKush]

^ ya it was a free clinic...

in vancouver you start with daily pick up from a pharmacy for the first few months.... and between the 3rd to 6th month they start to give you more carries... the 6th month mark is where you are able to get weekly carries.... and it remains that way, weekly.

 

[Bomb319]

See that pretty much is a dealbreaker for me. One big reason I would have preferred bupe to methadone is that I thought I could bring home a bottle of them and take one daily as with any other medication. I move around a lot and do NOT want to be dependent on a daily pharmacy visit when I may have to move and change pharmacies. Why can't they just dispense it like any other Rx? Obviously they urine test you first so they know you are actually an H addict and not just trying to score opiates, but I just hate the idea of daily or even weekly pickup.

I also want to keep it as much on the d/l as possible. Going down there every day is kind of a giveaway. Are there no situations in which they will send you home with at least a weekly supply right away?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^ ya it was a free clinic...

in vancouver you start with daily pick up from a pharmacy for the first few months.... and between the 3rd to 6th month they start to give you more carries... the 6th month mark is where you are able to get weekly carries.... and it remains that way, weekly.

Maybe that was just your experience. Technically you only have to go to the pharmacy daily for the first 2 months, after that it's up to the doctor. The paid clinics also tend to be less strict. It is not unheard of to get much less frequent pick-ups, be allowed to travel, etc. I live in Vancouver too by the way .

Bomb319 - Why not go for an initial visit and find out more? You shouldn't have to pay them if you choose not to go on it.

 

[DoctorShop]

See that pretty much is a dealbreaker for me. One big reason I would have preferred bupe to methadone is that I thought I could bring home a bottle of them and take one daily as with any other medication. I move around a lot and do NOT want to be dependent on a daily pharmacy visit when I may have to move and change pharmacies. Why can't they just dispense it like any other Rx? Obviously they urine test you first so they know you are actually an H addict and not just trying to score opiates, but I just hate the idea of daily or even weekly pickup.

I also want to keep it as much on the d/l as possible. Going down there every day is kind of a giveaway. Are there no situations in which they will send you home with at least a weekly supply right away?

It's only in the beginning. After as little as a couple of weeks (mind you my experience is in Australia) your doc can put you on take aways. I used to have 5 take aways a week so I only went twice a week in the end.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^It really varies depending on location and the doctor/clinic. However, what I said earlier about having to go every day for the first 2 months might be incorrect. I am having trouble finding up-to-date info on the regulations for buprenorphine prescription in British Columbia. It seems there are different regulations for different provinces. Of course aside from if there are any laws, beyond that it is entirely up to the individual doctor.

The Ontario regulations currently state the following, but I think BC is different (at least it was last I checked):

Buprenorphine/naloxone does not require a special prescribing exemption, unlike methadone, so prescriptions may be written by any practitioner licensed to prescribe narcotics. The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario (CPSO) expects all physicians who wish to use buprenorphine to treat opioid-dependent patients to have training/education on this drug, and addiction medicine generally, prior to initiating buprenorphine treatment.
Prescriptions for Suboxone have the same requirements as other "straight narcotics", however, in addition it would be good practice to also indicate:
- start and stop dates
- days for supervised administration
- days for take home doses

Take-home dosing can be considered based on the assessment of clinical stability, length of time in treatment and the patient’s ability to safely store the drug. The decision regarding take-home doses should involve collaboration between the patient, pharmacist and physician.

I will look into it more for you, but the easiest thing would be to go to a Suboxone clinic and find out the details and that clinic's specific protocol. And of course take-home privileges usually are dependent on you not using any non-prescribed drugs.