• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: Xorkoth | Madness

Creationism vs Evolution

You may very well. Satan knows more than me too.lol ( just a jab)
On ball,
No doesnt negate evidence that ball seems to always roll down hill of mount impossible.
But raises more incredibly important question,
Who raised this ball from bottom of mountain,
cause a ball cant raise itself.

How can you test this "ball raiser"?(cant believe I typed that)
As a start, I would ask is your life better or worse when you do good rather than evil?
Whats your answer?
Why do you believe good is better than evil?
Does chaos make things better or worse?
Do you even feel you need a better way of life?
I would begin examing by examing self--
 
Actually... I watched 'The Parallel'. Now on "Thursday, We Leave For Home"I haven't watch any Season 4's in a couple years. They never put them on TV anymore. I still get chills watching these after all these years. This and "CBS Radio Mystery Theater" use alot of the same sound effects? Have you listened to any of the Mystery Theater radio plays?

I always thought that the topic from 'mute' would be a good experiment with a child. Instead of telepathy, only speak a made up language around them, and then when they get older and introduced into society, they would have no idea what to do.

Sorry I'm getting OT

"The obligation is a reverse challenge:
prove that it couldnt happen"
lol kinda hard to do

I said mute because its a Rick Matheson episode.
And a good one.
I believe we all have a sixth sense.
Telepathy seems like it could work like a wireless
connection gets us to the net.
Wonder what masterpieces Rod and company could write today. Technology allows the imagination to run without boundries.

I havent listened to Mystery theater on radio,
but have read a couple scripts.
Never thought about till now, I bet youtube has them.
 
Last edited:
You may very well. Satan knows more than me too.lol ( just a jab)
On ball,
No doesnt negate evidence that ball seems to always roll down hill of mount impossible.
But raises more incredibly important question,
Who raised this ball from bottom of mountain,
cause a ball cant raise itself.

How can you test this "ball raiser"?(cant believe I typed that)
As a start, I would ask is your life better or worse when you do good rather than evil?
Whats your answer?
Why do you believe good is better than evil?
Does chaos make things better or worse?
Do you even feel you need a better way of life?
I would begin examing by examing self--

My life personally would be better if i did good.. as i think of myself as a fair and empathetic person.

Not everyone feels like me though.. there are countless people getting rich by performing evil.

Chaos generally makes things worse.
 
Oh god another one..
... etc.
OK, let me save you some psychotherapy dollars...

When you are having a conversation, try talking about the topic, not revealing your inner weakness by attacking the person to whom you are meant to be conversing.

When you attack someone, the BEST you get to see is their defences. The worst is they take your exposures and turn them back on you.

If you would REALLY like to have a conversation that approximates what occurs between normal humans, first, apologise (and you might as well include Methamaniac given how many times you've abused her/him) THEN try re-posting that heap of crap you think is you being all intellectual.

Or go find someone with a vocab approximating yours and similar views about humans and talk to them instead. I'm sure you can find another word other than wanking to describe what the two of you get up to.
 
I didn't say that. I said the hypothesis has been and probably will be tweaked again once more information is gathered.
Yeah, actually you did. Maybe you can get the Mods to delete the shit you want to deny? You said, AND I QUOTE... :D
rickolasnice said:
Yeah.. inflation is a tweak..
See... here's how it works - you COULD have said something about how Inflation developed the Big Bang. I presume you are smart enough to know that almost every description of Inflation out there would prove you wrong, so congrats on at least knowing that much. But you gave a bald statement and given how Inflation came about, an accurate one. Inflation IS a tweak of the Universe so that the Big Bang would deliver a Universe like that we see out there.

Now I might being unfair here. You might be 10 years old and simply haven't had the time to catch up on the history of cosmology, so maybe you do not know (even though I said it back there) that Inflation is DEFINED as what is necessary to make the Universe match the hypothesis. Sorry for your beliefs, but that is HOW it came about and that is LITERALLY how it is defined.

Bet you cannot name what it is supposed to be... :D
 
Evolution, for a start, is not a completely random process.
Um... wrong mate. Evolution by definition must be random. Or your whole argument fails. Unless you'd like to propose that radiation somehow chooses targets based on what might promote good things for Life? Maybe you think certain genes pop out and scream, "Pick me, pick me" to the occasional high energy photon?

Or hey, maybe you secretly think God chooses waht mutations happen and you just like to pick fights with people?

This is fun. You expose yourself so much I could do this all night... :D
 
Um... wrong mate. Evolution by definition must be random. Or your whole argument fails. Unless you'd like to propose that radiation somehow chooses targets based on what might promote good things for Life? Maybe you think certain genes pop out and scream, "Pick me, pick me" to the occasional high energy photon?

Or hey, maybe you secretly think God chooses waht mutations happen and you just like to pick fights with people?

This is fun. You expose yourself so much I could do this all night... :D
^
If Darwinist are to abandon true randomness as a catalyst to explain life, than they say there must be emperical scientific evidence to back it up.
You could cut that fog of steam coming out of that irony with a butter knife and put it on a cracker its so rich and creamy.
 
OK, let me save you some psychotherapy dollars...

When you are having a conversation, try talking about the topic, not revealing your inner weakness by attacking the person to whom you are meant to be conversing.

You mean using things like this for example?

Epigenetics turns out to have a lot to do with passing along characteristics, but try not putting words in my mouth - YOU are the believer in Evolution so trying to make out I am saying epigenetics replaces it somehow is just a red herring. You're making shit up to make out you know things you don't.

??

Yeah, actually you did. Maybe you can get the Mods to delete the shit you want to deny? You said, AND I QUOTE... :D
See... here's how it works - you COULD have said something about how Inflation developed the Big Bang. I presume you are smart enough to know that almost every description of Inflation out there would prove you wrong, so congrats on at least knowing that much. But you gave a bald statement and given how Inflation came about, an accurate one. Inflation IS a tweak of the Universe so that the Big Bang would deliver a Universe like that we see out there.

Now I might being unfair here. You might be 10 years old and simply haven't had the time to catch up on the history of cosmology, so maybe you do not know (even though I said it back there) that Inflation is DEFINED as what is necessary to make the Universe match the hypothesis. Sorry for your beliefs, but that is HOW it came about and that is LITERALLY how it is defined.

Bet you cannot name what it is supposed to be... :D

No, actually i didn't. You said tweak the universe, i said tweak the hypothesis. Inflation theory is not a tweak of the universe, it's a tweak to the big bang theory.. See the difference?

And what did you just say about showing your inner weakness by attacking the person?

Bravo.. Moron.

Um... wrong mate. Evolution by definition must be random. Or your whole argument fails. Unless you'd like to propose that radiation somehow chooses targets based on what might promote good things for Life? Maybe you think certain genes pop out and scream, "Pick me, pick me" to the occasional high energy photon?

Or hey, maybe you secretly think God chooses waht mutations happen and you just like to pick fights with people?

This is fun. You expose yourself so much I could do this all night... :D

No.. evolution by natural selection is not completely random thanks to a very key part of the theory - BY NATURAL SELECTION.

Try again.

And as usual for someone who denies evolution or even mutation of genes, you ignored the information and evidence i provided of genetic mutations among human populations today.

You also failed to acknowledge the many fails in your posts.. instead cherry picking parts you thought you were in for a chance of arguing against.. Well.. at least you tried.. I guess that counts for something,

And me and Meth are just fine thank you - Looking forward to our next few games of chess.
 
Last edited:
Interesting article sekio.

There's a rather fascinating statement in there...
Moreover they found two surprising results, first they found mutations that increased the mutation rate by about 150 fold, and then later independent mutations that reduced the high mutation rate by about 50%.
That's the first indication of seen of a potential mechanism for the diversity explosion after an ELE.

But the rest of the article implies mutagens that are NOT random. Evolution in classic sense insists on random acts (and radiation is the most common causative factor) and in years of these sorts of debates I have yet to find an explanation for how a random photon event can successfully change a base. As above, BOTH bases have to change simultaneously for the new base to attach to its partner.

While in a broad sense the actions of viruses and bacteria in bringing new genes into a genome could be mutation, that is not normally included in the description of Evolution - it's more an add-on than seen as a cause of speciation.
 
As for the personal stuff, it began with things like 'delusional' smarmy, fool and wanky troll. My comments stand.

Your misunderstanding of epigenetics and even Lamarck is shown by the 'I can't practice...' post. Lamarck's theory was of evolution by acquired characteristics and he is less ridiculous if his original words are read instead of those written by people ridiculing him. Nor does epigenetics work by 'practicing' so that highlights either a preference to use misguided argument tactics or a lack of knowledge about what epigenetics actually is.

I've hinted a couple of times about the grandmother research. What they found was women who were in high stress situations had 'different' babies. High stress tends to breed (for want of a better term) athletes. Low stress and comfortable environments tend to breed Einsteins.. (again, for want of a better term)

The research showed that the original stress situation affected the baby, which could have been predicited with a little thought, but what it also found was the daughter ALSO had high-stress babies and so did the granddaughters. The epigenetic changes stayed that way and the traits carried forward even after the stress was removed. (wars are apparently good for some things. :D

The invention of inflation was distinctly a 'tweak the universe' thing. Big Bang theory has not changed since they came up with it, but the models failed to reproduce the universe we see. So they decided the universe had to undergo Inflation so the Big Bang theory would survive. Then galaxies didn't work right so they invented Dark matter. Then the RS showed some strange results so they invented Dark Energy. That's not how Science is supposed to work. If the evidence disagrees you are not meant to invent new forces so your theory is kept alive.

The only evidence for Inflation is that they need it for Big Bang models to make a universe that looks like the one we see. The evidence for Dark Matter is their models didn't give them galaxies like we see and also they needed something to fill in the lack of mass their model gives them. The evidence for Dark Energy is RS.

At no point did they go back and say, 'hm... the real world says no, so maybe we need a new theory. If we discard the Big Bang then maybe we can find a theory that has the current universe fall out of it as a natural thing, rather than using magic so we don't have to alter our model. And there ARE other ideas out there. General Systems theory proposes a steady state universe and even has practical mechanisms we can see to describe how matter and energy happen.

EU theory makes use of the vast energies involved in electrical and magnetic energies and has predictions that are proving out. One such was the detection of 'rogue' planets - a big surprise for conventional cosmology but predicted in EU.

In fact the recent history of Cosmology can perhaps be best described as a constant stream of surprises - which in Science, suggests your theory is wrong. Successful theory should predict at least most of the things you later find. Instead there's been any number of times they've had to try to work out ways to get observations to fit into their theory.

I gave you some evidence as to why RS is not just velocity. When High RS and Low RS objects are physically linked, RS cannot be just velocity. And without RS there is no evidence for a Big Bang because the galaxies are not necessarily moving apart at all.

I'm not claiming either of the alternative mentioned are truth, but they have better predictability that the Big Bang hypothesis. And if RS is NOT velocity, as would seem to be the case, then the entire Big Bang hypothesis falls on its arse and we don't need Inflation, Dark Matter or Dark Energy at all.

Evolution is, according to consensus, random, and it has to be or the door is wide open for ID and Creationism. What ISN'T random is survival which is a separate process to the one making changes. It may be splitting hairs but Evolution's results are not the same thing as the Evolution events. A failed mutation is still Evolution in action. Only once the organism breeds is there 'survival of the fittest' occurring.

The steady tick of mutation is also problematic as there are periods where fossils tell us there has been an explosion of forms. ELE aftermaths led to the idea of Punctuated Evolution to try to explain exactly this. And mutations can't 'build up' waiting for environment to change; they are either beneficial right now and improve survival chances or they get lost in the mix. And if they are beneficial NOW for the organism, then they are highly unlikely to open new opportuniy for the organism when an ELE drastically changes the environment.
 
LOL - if only... My personal view is Theism and Atheism are both over on the Believer side of the scale - the opposite to them both is Agnostic. An Agnositc doesn't know and is holding out for more evidence. Both the others have their minds made up as to what is right and neither has proof. :D

But I'd truly love to see someone like Dawkins indulge in a bit of Altered States.
 
Am quite obviously on stims and haven't slept.. 8)

Ahh... Finally, now all of your posts and threads make sense. I get it now. Oxys too? What other drugs am I talking to when you post? ;)

You realize lack of sleep combined with drugs causes delirium right? You know drugs skew your perception correct?

Actually I should have know better. This is, of course, a drug forum at its core. Silly me.
 
If God created all life on earth in their current form, and Gods creations are perfect.

Why does the sun give you cancer?

Why do the male testicles have to be outside the body?

Why do snakes have a shrivelled lung that doesn't do anything?

Why do we have teeth that rot and decay?

Why does skin burn under sunlight?

Purposefully pugnacious, self-assured, and flimsy argumentation as exemplified above is why I am sometimes ashamed to divulge my atheism within a public setting. It is not so much a fear of being verbally lambasted and castigated that causes this apprehension, but rather the association with sophomoric logicians—most of whom cannot think critically for themselves any more than their oppugnant and disfavored theists are stereotypically said to; so the preacher at his pulpit persuades his oafish congregation, Hitchens, Dawkins, amd Harris are persuading their bovine audience from the podium or YouTube.

There's even an embarrassingly cheesy, risible epithet these amateurs have created for themselves: brights. Bwhahaha!

As a a Hindu atheist, Western atheism is taken more seriously thann it should. Bob believes X. Joe believes Y. Bob's egoism is what compels him to accost, persuade, or refute Joe's diametric conviction Y. Do not let your ego compel you to confrontation nor antagonize your coevals. Ideology is not a sufficient cause for disdain, contumely, or petulance. Once one has attained the state of sincerely realizing their beliefs' inconsequence and subjective nature, maybe there's cause to hope for less internecine dialogue.

Until then, the ideology is perceived as an appendix of the self, with its refutation being a refutation of the self, as a result. When one detaches themselves from their Weltanshuuang or precepts, they become less encumbered by them and less invested in their defense. As a result, the integrity of one's character or immortality project of personhood and self ceases to exist.
 
^ Similar reason I do not readily identify myself as an agnostic. Most people assume that means atheist, which I couldn't be further from, and do not wish to be associated with.

And I just learned 3 new words! Castigate, coevals, and contumely. I actually had to look them up. I'm kinda glad too, because I always wanted there to be a word for the definition of coevals; guess there always was and I didn't know. Thank you, fellow coeval!
 
British Biologist Denis Noble Debunks Neo Darwini…: http://youtu.be/QMVfafAYTMg

J-man,
I posted this before but some people didnt seem to get it.
I believe you will have no problem.
Follow the evidence.
Shit... I'm only 6 minutes in and already thinking, "I better get my book written FAST!" Bastard's stealing my thunder I think. I mean maybe not - he's only just started, but "All these rules have been broken" is pretty much chapter 2... grrr...

18 minutes and I'm thinking I might be safe - he's a biologist so I think I still have something to add. His graphic about genes <> networks <> phenotypes also opens my door (so to speak)

I'm betting Dawkins ain't happy. :D The knockout punch to the Selfish gene is bad enough, but the putdown about metaphor means OWNED Dawkins!!! :D

He replaces the Tree of Evolution with a network - my image was a tundra of bushes or shrubs... But similar in concept. I said "29.000.000 genes suggests the model is really a paddock of bushes, not a tree" but I think Noble sees more communication happening than I do... more physical communication at least... :D
 
Last edited:
@mabzie55 - Agreed, although I'd say they're not even the same subject. :D I know very few Creationists who insist God spends her time piss-farting around with species - they tend to see it as 'zap!' and there they are. Which is puzzling because of the time line from archaeology. But Evolutionists also have a problem in that they have no answer for the moment of Life beginning. Usually they fob it off to chemistry.

On a brighter note, this thread is better than most I have seen that turn into battlegrounds in short order. :D
 
Top