Create Your Reality

[Airwalk]

Haste I think Peter Poppers opinion was that no one should be able to legislate against personal freedom as long as it doesn't affect others. That why its OK to have laws against drink driving or smoking in restaurants. These laws protect others without stopping people from either drinking or smoking.
I would like to add another point though. The war is against drug abuse (Which the governemnt seems to think is 100% of drug users). What this means is that as long as everything is underground then you have a hidden war that cannot be won. Bring it out in the open and then you will at least know who the enemy is.
I would also like to highlight a fact that I made earlier. Legalisation does NOT increase the usage of such drugs. Amsterdaam for instance, the biggest users of dope are tourists not locals. Canberra and SA have not seen an increase in dope usage since the decrimilisation. on the flip side the drug fantasy saw a massive increase of usage as soon as it was made illegal. I read many other similar stats but can't remember specifics at the moment.
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[haste]

My concern with such an idea Ghost is that you run the risk of promoting drug use - by presenting so much information at such an early age and throughout a kid's school years is playing with fire - and as a parent a real concern! I guess it is a catch 22, it could serve to educate and promote safe drug use, but it can also act as an introduction into drugs. I guess a fine line needs to be drawn as to what is educated and at what stage in a childs/youths development.
Maybe such programs can be included at an age bracket where kids are more likely going to start experimenting with drugs? Although, it is not uncommon these days for someone in grade 6 (in some areas or melbourne) to have tried pot!! It's a tough call either way but agreed, something needs to be done.
A question for the younger bluelighters, I only wish I could remember going to high school let alone what I learnt. At any year level, is there any education on the legal drugs such a tobacco and alcohol? And if so, what are your opnions? I'm really interested to hear back on this!
hastey

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CEO of B.O.A.R
Burnt Out Association of Ravers
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Ravers click here for free porn

 

[Airwalk]

Haste I think Peter Poppers opinion was that no one should be able to legislate against personal freedom as long as it doesn't affect others. That why its OK to have laws against drink driving or smoking in restaurants. These laws protect others without stopping people from either drinking or smoking.
I would like to add another point though. The war is against drug abuse (Which the governemnt seems to think is 100% of drug users). What this means is that as long as everything is underground then you have a hidden war that cannot be won. Bring it out in the open and then you will at least know who the enemy is.
I would also like to highlight a fact that I made earlier. Legalisation does NOT increase the usage of such drugs. Amsterdaam for instance, the biggest users of dope are tourists not locals. Canberra and SA have not seen an increase in dope usage since the decrimilisation. on the flip side the drug fantasy saw a massive increase of usage as soon as it was made illegal. I read many other similar stats but can't remember specifics at the moment.
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Vote for the Party, Party, Party at the next election

 

[*chaoscat*]

Haste - I didn't say that since alcohol is legal then mdma should be too! I was just pointing out how unbalanced the laws are, not giving a solution... you assumed that was my preferred solution - could make alcohol illegal for all I care!
Also, depends what you consider the greater risks too - for example, you can easily die from alcohol poisoning if you can't control yourself... though you can do yourself irrepairable damage with too much mdma, I'm sure you would be less likely to actually kill yourself.
Yes I know my marijuana case was flimsy!
I don't actually see marijuana laws as much of a problem... they work for me

I was just rambling by that stage!
It is an extremely complex topic, but unfortunately I can't see how people putting their opinions on a message board is going to make any difference at all... there needs to be actual discussion groups on the issues at least, otherwise it's all theories with no "best solution" ever being finalised (let alone recognised by government)...

 

[haste]

*chaoscat* chill, it's just a discussion, who said anything about any action or changing the world - don't take things so personally. It just makes a nice change to the bullshit thats usually in this forum

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CEO of B.O.A.R
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Ravers click here for free porn

 

[De Quincey]

show us your multiple posts...

the issue of government legislating to prevent people enroaching on other people's rights is a fair call as i'm sure we'd all agree. and i can see why this could be used to condone legalisation, because why does it infringe on someone else if i take a pill every so often? well, from a government perspective where use too often equals abuse, then it encroaches on the rights of others. we pay this thing called "tax" to cover the costs of running the place and to protect other citizens and help them when they need help. so if i use a certain drug, and it gets out of hand (as will surely happen to a proportion of users), then the government has to pay to pick me up off the floor. of course i am now infringing on the rights of my fellow citizens by misusing their hard-earned tax dollars as a direct result of my own choice to take drugs.
now, the government has to weight up whether the cost in tax dollars to prevent people from killing themselves with drugs (rehab etc) balances with the cost of law enforcement to prevent use in the first place. if the cost of law enforecment gets too high then you have to wonder what the point of prohibition is.
maybe if it was legal the govt could make a shitload of cash off it, which would hopefully cover the health costs, a bit like gambling taxes paying for gambler's help services?
but i'm not sure if that would be the case, and who really wants every yob and his dog being able to load up on whatever he chooses at will? we'd be a society of drug-fucked morons! happy morons, but

rambling....
DQ
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"Cabbages... knickers.... it's not got a beak!"

 

[*~hippychic~*]

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on where you're coming from

), banning substances generally allows easier access to those same substances. It can also mean that people aren't given education about side effects or risks.
To ban something, it doesn't matter whether its a drug, prostitution or euthenasia, it simply means people still use drugs, still become prostitutes and still practice euthenasia, it just isn't done safely.
I sense an alcohol/drug debate here,

, they're all drugs, they're all bad for you but I believe there is a reasonably safe degree of taking most recreational drugs, including the odd drink or two. Most people, after all, do not become addicted to either drugs or alcohol. It goes to personal use, personality, psychology and environment.
I respect those of you with children having another take on things, but you wouldn't simply tell your child to not take drugs surely? Would you not discuss it with them, educate them and listen to them? Sadly, when something is banned, education and listening tends to be less of a priority than it should be.

 

[Tarsarlan]

hastey: I think drug education could be presented in such a way as to make it clear that it's not at all advocating drug use but rather showing what the drugs could do to you...
If drugs were legal and produced under controlled conditions then there wouldn't be any nescessity to focus too much on 'safe' drug use too much further than remembering that moderation is important... There wouldn't be any issue with adulterants in pills, or confusing ice with speed, or anything else that stems from having to get drugs from wherever you can...

 

[GhOst]

drug education doesnt mean teaching children how to use drugs... or exposing them so that it becomes sort of promoting drug use. in MY reality, education would be a complete moulding program training pple to grow up KNOWING that drugs have to be handled with care. im also of the opinion that precisely bcos drugs are illegal, hence lies the attraction... alot of kids try drugs BCOS it is illegal.
by changing the system around, drugs are really no big deal, in a way. they dont have to be taboo. just like driving a car. u have to learn how to do it properly and sensibly, if not u'll kill yourself. OTC drugs like Panadol, Codral etc... pple KNOW they cant eat too much of it unless they wanna OD.
keeping it all under wraps is a root problem i believe. why are drugs bad/illegal? bcos they cause death/decay of society. how do pple die? from not knowing enough (about the drugs or how to use responsibly).
is this current system efficient in eliminating problems? i dont think so. pple are still using/abusing drugs anyway. and more misinformation, more deaths, more bad shit goes on and on.
back in Singapore, there was a period when kids started sniffing glue to get high. did they ban glue? no. glue is still readily available in Singapore. what they did was educate pple about what damage glue-sniffing does. banning isnt the answer to everything. something potentially dangerous? ban it! if so, they might as well start banning pencils, kitchen knives, high heel shoes! things made readily available doesnt mean pple are gonna abuse them all the time. it all depends on the mindset, what pple are trained to believe in, how to handle/use things.
ok im starting to babble nonsense i think. 720am... time for bed!

 

[haste]

Tarsy, Ghost - I see both your points and agree

I was just afraid that even though your intentions were to educate, it would be an introduction into the world of drugs - but I guess in todays society that is inevitable, whether it be through a proper educationl system or through day to day living.
And yes, as a parent I would discuss and listen to my child - that is without a doubt

But also as a parent I would prefer that drugs we're illegal, impossible to get and no where in his reach or knowledge - but of course that's MY reality

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CEO of B.O.A.R
Burnt Out Association of Ravers
....SLIDE BENEATH THE CITY......feel free to visit
Ravers click here for free porn