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Counter-acting the effects of antipsychotic injection?

B

bees_knees

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
166
So first of all, a doctor with whom I have good rapport thinks I should stay on the antipsychotic paliperidone (a stronger risperidone) for a long period of time. Due to some disagreement which I am still pushing (in a friendly manner) he enforced it with a treatment order in its depot form, but explained it is only because I forget to or plain don't take the tablet medication because I don't think I have any illness or because I don't really care about it all. I currently have zero symptoms but the doctor puts it down to the activity of the medication. I am a bit frustrated and I have a big list of questions for Monday when I go to see one of the nurses. I want to clear this up. Basically, in my experience, I am fine and the whole fiasco is out of context and proportion and was originally just an adverse reaction to MDMA/speed (pill) abuse (every weekend for months), but they are caring doctors and have the statistics etc. and think it may turn bad without medication.

Anyway, paliperidone blocks 5-HT2a receptor activity, almost entirely, given that people report (Wikipedia, bluelight, shroomery) atypical antipsychotics bring bad trips to a sudden end.

Psychedelics main mechanism primarily involves this receptor.

I don't forsee convincing them easily to reduce or cease injections within a month.

Mushroom season is about a month away.

...do you see my dilemma?

I'm on a medication that is going to stop a large chunk of psilocybin activity, and while I believe I'm on it for no reason, that's not my main point of interest, what I want to discuss is:

Is there anything I can take that is going to enhance activity at the 5-HT2a receptors dramatically? ie. counteract paliperidone's effects in these regions of the brain?

An area of possibility is what if I take serotonin supplements? 5-HT? Will that do anything?
I have quickly read here on bluelight that St. John's Wort brings this receptor into activity (up to 50% more activity than placebo).

Is there a hope for me?

Alternatively, what happens if I eat ludicrous amounts of mushrooms? Will that agonise against the antagonists now in the brain?

Thank you!
<3
 
bees_knees said:
Is there anything I can take that is going to enhance activity at the 5-HT2a receptors dramatically? ie. counteract paliperidone's effects in these regions of the brain?
Click to expand...

No. The anti-psychotic will probably have a higher affinity to this receptor than anything you throw its way. If you take something in excess, it's very possible that you'll feel it, but with diminished effects.

bees_knees said:
An area of possibility is what if I take serotonin supplements? 5-HT? Will that do anything? I have quickly read here on bluelight that St. John's Wort brings this receptor into activity (up to 50% more activity than placebo).
Click to expand...

It may. I wouldn't be messing with serotonergics and anti-psychotics however, as serotonin syndrome would be a major concern.

bees_knees said:
Is there a hope for me?
Click to expand...

Yes, you wait until the injection runs its course. Once it has done that, and you don't approve of the medication that you were put on, contest it with your doctor. If he disagrees and you're adamant, get a second opinion, or even a third.

Don't worry, mushroom season will come around again.

------------------------------------------------------------------

In either case, I'm going to move your thread over to Psychedelic Drugs. Good luck.

bdd-->pd
 
There really isn't a way around the antipsychotic blocking serotonergic psychedelics. Even if you stop taking it, it will take a little while to get back to normal. If you want to take drugs, you are going to need to use something other than psilocybin and the like.
 
A second opinion is looking really good right now. :D

But what non-serotonergic psychs are there? DXM? There was a little part of I think an Erowid guide that said damage can occur with the combination of DXM with antipsychotics.
 
Well, there are dissociatives like dxm, ketamine, mxe which are nmda antagonists(dxm is a serotonin reuptake inhibtor also). They aren't really psychedelics though. Don't want to make this a semantic argument but they are definitely different. I love serotonergic psychedelics but am not particularly fond of dissociatives. Salvia is a kappa opiod agonist. I haven't tried it but it tends to be classified as a dissociative. There's always fat bowls of weed... I don't really know what your condition is so I hesitate to actually recommend anything.
 
Personally I would recommend findin a psychiatrist who is understanding of the benefit of psychedelics. There must be a load of them around. We can't answer your question as we have no idea of what has led to you condition/treatment.
 
hello!
all the good avice has already been given so i wont come back to that. just to add that might want to keep in mind the doctor might be right about you needing the treatment and having no symptoms because it actually works...

anyway, have your discussion with the doctor, make sure you tell him all your worries and if in doubt get another opinion. noone wants to put you through medication you dont want, but sometimes the specialists might be right...

cheers
 
I appreciate everyone's concern.

The basic situation is that I don't have a single problem in life. You don't miraculously become symptom free with medication. It also doesn't allow total contentment and happiness, and you can't get such things while you have so-called thought disorders or delusions and hallucinations. I am fine, I am set... and here they are calling me ill. My situation exists as it does with the mental health clinic because of things being taken out of proportion by me and by them. I was simply trying to get a grip on life existentially, ie. was having an existential crisis and there was a tendency to panic, even a spiritual emergency you might say. I was trying to find meaning by imagining things into the world and generally just agreed it was illness because I was apathetic and maybe I wanted some attention too. They exited me a while ago and I was off all medication and completely fine, when nothing at all really happened, probably some boredom-inspired trippy jokes, and I think my mother got worried or something, probably because I was getting too excited or because I was tripping a lot during that time, and I ended up back with them. And they were like, a-ha, a relapse etc. It's been a silly beat around the bush. It's hard to explain but I'm willing to take the insult of being an idiot.

So, I don't know, that might give you peace of mind if you gave some advice. :)
 
I say don't trip. Best way to prove you are together is by spending a year or so straight, right? You need these guys off your back and the quickest way to do that is to remove their worries. If they are worried about your psychedelic use, prove to them you don't need drugs by easing up for a while. After all, mushroom season comes around every year.
 
sounds like you keep getting psychotic from overusing psychedelics

you are better off without psychedelics

for me i was given a prescription of risperidone and i never took it and i got better of my own accord.

doctors think pills cure everything and mental illness is hugely subjective. maybe learn to hold your tongue better and if you didn't want to take pills you should have played along and then not taken them. taking too many trips probably does concern your mum and you probably do have a mental illness.

honesty and doctors has fucked me over more than once so feed them what you want them to hear and play along with the system. if you start binging on acid of course it will be obvious and it will probably make you a lot worse

trips make mental illness of the bipolar/schizophrenic kind worse. cut it out and grow up a bit. you only get one life, stop messing yours up with needless hedonism.

you can get less psychotic but its up to you to stop making your head worse. your choice (and i've been diagnosed bipolar with major manic episode and am on no meds and have passed recent medicals with flying colours)
 
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Again I appreciate the concern but I'm really not psychotic. You can hopefully understand the assumptions you're making in your post. The thread was about whether there was a way around the injection, I wouldn't have come to ask about my mental state, there's no way one could tell over the internet. Not saying your post is in vain but you must have had experience with people saying these things before, or something. Bit of projection... :)
 
Oh and they said today they're going to reduce the injection as I take more of an oral antipsychotic, simply because, and they keep reiterating, it's in my hands, if I'd just take what they think is best for me they'd revoke the order and stop the injection. It won't really be soon though, probably over 2-3 months. I guess I'll just hoarde mushrooms this season. How long do they last and how should you store them?

PS. I agree on the hedonism though. :(
 
Have you maybe considered the possibility that your doctor is acting out of your best interests? The key identifier in a psychosis diagnosis is when the patients cannot identify with their disorder, i.e. are convinced there is nothing wrong with them. If your doctor is this insistent on you taking your medication maybe it is for your own good?
 
Difficult situation you're in, I am sure. I agree with you about the assumptions made by some commenters - it is impossible to judge these through a few posts on an internet forum...

However, I would personally stress one thing. And that is that you claim to have a good relationship with your physician. If you have that, and he's still forcing it on you with a treatment order, surely he must believe something to be the case. Whether he's right or not is irrelevant for the question you posed here, no?

I think it's very well possible for an existential or spiritual crisis to be mistaken for a psychotic episode (or whatever the doctors call it), but in both situations it might be wise to stay clear of any psychoactives, and to try and find another way to find purpose or meaning in life. You said that you've been using a lot of different substances - and probably even overdoing it. If your being on medication is the result of your abusing substances, my suggestion would be that the best way of dealing with it is by staying clear of any substance use.

You're probably hoping that someone will tell you otherwise, but from my point of view (which I know shows only a small piece of the puzzle) it doesn't have to be so bad to not be doing anything for a while. Nevermind how old you are now, you'll still have the rest of your life to experiment. That should count for something.

Mushrooms, if properly dried and stored in a cold, dark and dry place can be kept for a long time.
 
My position on my apparent illness and medication comes from the fact that I just don't experience symptoms. The doctor is 100% convinced he's doing the right thing and he's a good guy, he's even aware of anti-psychiatry positions/movements and talks about them, etc. (just for example), but they get a lot of patients through there and most of it is based on my description of my experience, and I've kind of put things out of proportion maybe because I just like to hear myself talk and because I've been so uprooted wondering what to do with my life I tend to talk a lot of garbage when I go in there, or rather I used to.

I really do have a craving for psychedelics... yes... if I had a source (outside of nature) most of my life would be experiments with them. I don't know what to think of that.

Good perspective Reverend, good to see I'm partially, possibly in an agreeable position. I do however need to find other meaning in life... this is certain.
 
Sounds like you have a problem relationship with psychedelics at the moment. I would quit for a while for that reason alone. If you aren't mentally ill, tripping that much might make you so.
 
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