Opioids could this be WDs?

[simco]

I'm a sporadic user of heroin (non-IV, most other ROAs though). Currently, I'm seeing some unfamiliar symptoms and wondered wtf. Specifically, I snorted a large-ish dose (for me) four days ago. This was on the heels of a few weeks of once-or-twice-a-week use. This last time, I got *really* high, though not into OD territory. Anyhow, the next day I woke up and puked a bunch, which is more or less par for the course. Also par for the course: I didn't shit that day.

Here's the weird thing. The FOLLOWING day I still felt like hell. Terrible headache, depression, and gnarly diarrhea. Since then the headache, depression, and the shits-from-hell continue.

I think maybe I feel a little better today. Not really sure.

Anyhow, I know that diarrhea is a classic symptom of opiate WDs. Being a "chipper," I've never dealt with such stuff. So I'm trying to figure out if these symptoms are a sign that my recreational/sporadic use crossed the line into physical dependency. Or maybe this is a symptom of over-indulgence on a single occasion? Still another possibility: I guess the crapping could be a coincidence.

Any insights?

 

[Non Nobis Solum]

Stop using now. It may just be acute acute wd from the dose you took or wd man. Give it time and if it gets worse or you feel like shit, you are addicted and you'll be glad you stopped now rather then later!

 

[pinpoint]

At what point does rebound effects cross over in to physical dependence - I suppose that is the question. Based on your pattern of use & symptoms I'd say you're experiencing a rebound, but I would take this as a serious warning that perhaps you aren't impervious to the fate of all the 'chippers' who came before you. Generally your symptoms plus RLS, insomnia, hot/cold flashes, dilated pupils, sweating & emotional lability will be the sign on the door that says 'I'm fucked'.

 

[Methacodone]

The very 1st time I tried heroin, smoked it, same thing happened to me. The next day I was puking, I was pale, and just not feeling well.

However, that was a 1 time use, and the next day after I felt fine.

But in your case, you're saying you use 1-2x a week, and dosed a large amount of H to get you sick the next day, and the next few following days, it COULD be minor w/d, or something else, we don't exactly know, because it's the internet and we cant SEE whats wrong with you.

IMO, the sickness is telling you to stay away from the substance, because its obviously getting you SICK.

Trust me on this one, EVERY addict that I know, including myself, started out on dosing just a couple days a week, now, including me, we're all addicts and dependant on the opiate of choice.

Do yourself, and your family, and your health a favor and stop using H.

I guarantee you, your sickness will go away, but if you continue using, itll never go away,.

 

[simco]

Yeah, I figured that this was the writing on the wall, saying get the fuck out now. I have to think on this one. Thanks for the info, though.

 

[Methacodone]

Good choice man, im telling you by EXPERIENCE you DONT want to go through what I went through, TRSUT ME. Heroin W/D was the only w/d I wanted to KILL myself on.

So yeah, its no joke.

I'm proud of you though, by making the right decision.

 

[simco]

Thanks, Methacodone. I gotta say, though... I can't quite commit here and now. I quit once before and promptly relapsed. So I'm not keen to claim I'm going to stop unless I really mean it.

Odd, seems like ~1/2 of the opiate-related posts on BL have a version of the advice posted here. And yet, many of us do it anyway. Hard to imagine a life without dope, at least when you're doing it.

Your vote of confidence means a lot, though. I really will try to make what I know is the right choice.

 

[cj]

Thanks, Methacodone. I gotta say, though... I can't quite commit here and now. I quit once before and promptly relapsed. So I'm not keen to claim I'm going to stop unless I really mean it.

Odd, seems like ~1/2 of the opiate-related posts on BL have a version of the advice posted here. And yet, many of us do it anyway. Hard to imagine a life without dope, at least when you're doing it.

Your vote of confidence means a lot, though. I really will try to make what I know is the right choice.

Trust me man many have come before you yet few have headed the advice given. At the very least you need to stop for a few weeks. If you go back to using before then I can almost guarantee your going to get physically addicted. I would say your already mentally addicted. But it's your choice and god knows I understand the allure.

 

[Methacodone]

yeah, trust US, the people who are telling you to stay away from this evil drug have been through it, and trust me, as good as the high feels, the w/d is the exact opposite of the high you get, Heroin W/D is no joke, for me, that was the ONLY opiate I wanted to kill my self on, that's how bad it was for me.

RX opiates, I never even thought of suicide, but heroin is so evil and hard to get off of, its nearly impossible to do it cold turkey. The W/d itself CAN'T kill you, BUT it can kill you by Dehydration, because you get so Nausous you vomit everything out of your body, and when you're stomach is empty, you'll still keep vomiting white/yellow foam that tastes BITTER, now that's what I call poison.

But, its all up to you, we can't STOP you from using, but we can help you by saying stay the fuck away from H.

 

[SickWithRA]

I was prescribed a fentanyl patch 50mcg/hour for a blood clot following an IV infusion of Remicade (RA treatment)...I felt no pain and good for about 8 hours when the patch was on. I took it off once I started feeling nauseous...went to bed and woke up very sick. Severe nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea...I wasn't sure what happened since I'm prescribed opiates for my RA (I do have a tolerance). I don't believe it was a withdrawal...but something similar to what you described. Be careful.

 

[Methacodone]

SickwithRA

Was fent the very first opiate you tried? If so, holy shit. No opiate in the world compares to the strength of fentanyl. They use micrograms instead of milligrams on that drug because it's so powerful. The next strongest opiates after fent, are miles away from fent. Fentanyl is in its own class imo of opiates. This is the list of the most powerful RX opiates,

1. Fentanyl
2. Chronic Methadone
3. Opana
4. Methadone
5. IV Dilaudid/Oxycodone

Dilaudid when taken IV is very powerful, as you see it's just under methadone, oral dilaudid is weak, that can be compared to hydrocodone and codeine. That's why I put Oxycodone their, so if it was oral dilaudid, Oxycodone would whoop dilaudids ass, but IV Dilaudid would whoop Oxycodones ass.

 

[cuivre]

SickwithRA
No opiate in the world compares to the strength of fentanyl.

Actually, sufentanil is the strongest opioid commonly used in humans. It is 5-10x stronger than fentanyl and is fairly common in the operating room as an anesthetic/hypnotic/sedative. It is also in trials as a transdermal patch IIRC. Of course, there are opioids many magnitudes stronger than even sufentanil, but I assume the part I quoted from your post was in reference to human use. Still... sufentanil, as far as I know.

Anyway, the point you were trying to make still stands. Fentanyl is a ridiculously potent opioid to start with but even some doctors play fast and loose with fentanyl just because it comes in a patch. I remember when an inept surgeon tried to get me on Duragesic immediately after I had basically been on oxy/APAP for a couple of weeks and I'm glad I knew enough to say no.

 

[SickWithRA]

No that was not my 1st opiate prescription...I'm prescribed Oxycodone (10mg, 4X a day) and Oxycontin (2X a day-we are titrating up right now)...so my body is familiar with opiate medications...it could not handle that patch though...at least not that dose.

 

[SickWithRA]

I've been on opiate medications for RA over 2 years now...that patch at 50mcg/hour was too much. I will never allow a doctor to give me that again...this happened in the fall.

 

[Methacodone]

Actually, sufentanil is the strongest opioid commonly used in humans. It is 5-10x stronger than fentanyl and is fairly common in the operating room as an anesthetic/hypnotic/sedative. It is also in trials as a transdermal patch IIRC. Of course, there are opioids many magnitudes stronger than even sufentanil, but I assume the part I quoted from your post was in reference to human use. Still... sufentanil, as far as I know.

Anyway, the point you were trying to make still stands. Fentanyl is a ridiculously potent opioid to start with but even some doctors play fast and loose with fentanyl just because it comes in a patch. I remember when an inept surgeon tried to get me on Duragesic immediately after I had basically been on oxy/APAP for a couple of weeks and I'm glad I knew enough to say no.

Although that's true, but sufentanil is part of the fentanyl family, correct me if im wrong? please.

So in that case, I have re-searched and read A LOT about opiates, and all sources say no opiate compares to Fentanyl. It's just too powerful.

I'm pretty sure sufentanil is Fentanyl mixed with other sedatives/opiates to make it stronger than pure Fentanyl. That's why the drug is so powerful, because of the Fentanyl in it. Correct me if im wrong again? Please.

For those of you who don't know the difference between Chronic methadone, and methadone. They're the same exact drug, BUT Chronic Methadone means you dose Methadone daily. As you all should know, methadone builds up in the body by dosing daily, which makes chronic methadone 2-3x more potent than a person who takes methadone as needed.

SickWithRA-

Yeah, that's what I thought, I mean it's almost impossible to get Fentanyl as your first opiate, even oxycodone is VERY rare to get that RX'd as your first opiate.
But if your pain is/was that bad, then maybe that's why your doctor started you on oxycodone.
MOST people, who are seeking pain management is almost guaranteed to get started on either Codeine or Hydrocodone.
Due to the fact that getting a stronger opiate than hydro/codeine is more risk of an overdose for an opiate naïve person.

But, since you had/have the tolerance to high doses of Oxycodone/Oxycontin, even though Fent is like 1000x more potent than oxy, it's still WAY safer to have a tolerance to ANY opiate before switching to powerful narcotics such as Fentanyl, Methadone, and Opana, those are the last resort of pain meds. Methadone can hold anyone in the world, even if you have a HUGE tolerance to other strong narcotics, methadone will still hold you at the right dose. Their is NO ceiling dose for methadone. You can get as much as you can, just enough to get you out of w/d.

 

[Prescottdave]

Their are a number of other synthetic fentanyl analogs that are more potent their parent drug. Sufetanil only contains sufetanil. It is a common drug to be used in the operating room. Their are as far as i know upwards of 5 other synthetic fetanyl analogs some of which are more potent by weight then fetanyl.

 

[SickWithRA]

The oxycodone is for Rheumatoid Arthritis...but the Fentanyl was for a blood clot in arm caused by an IV treatment (Remicade) for the Rheumatoid Arthritis. I ended up on a blood thinner for 6 weeks and that patch...but I could only wear it half a day.

 

[Methacodone]

Yeah, me personally, I've never even seen fentanyl not once in my life.

There's no NEED for it for me, I'm already on a strong opiate that I LOVE TO DEATH, Methadone. I love 'done SO MUCH, because, #1 it saved my life. #2 it gets you away from other illicit/illegal Narcotics.

I'm perfectly fine with the opiate im RX'd, I don't plan on taking anything stronger than methadone, as its already VERY strong. 9 years of opiate tolerance, and only 80mg of methadone holds me for the whole 24+ hours with no w/d whatsoever. Now that's fucking powerful.

80mg may seem a lot for SOME, but trust me, 80mg is no where near as the top dogs in methadone doses. The highest dose I've heard of someone in MY clinic was 310mg, I was like HOLY SHIT, I thought 80 was too high. But, I guess its not in the methadone world.

 

[goldenbrown31]

That definatly sounds like a case of the wds the constapations normal most people who use get that .if you only use occasionally they be pretty mild so my advice if you don't want a fulltime habit ride it out now if you can youl be over the worst in a week.

 

[siq]

If you're just throwing up and feel like shit the day after that's just like a hangover, that's not kicking.
Kicking is when you've been dependent for awhile, mainly its being very uncomfortable thats the best way to describe it. Anxiety, Back pain, stomach pains etc.