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Could psychedelics have a place in Buddhism?

Splitz

Splitz

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Jun 12, 2010
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One of the things that appeals to me about Buddhism is the lack of pushiness. There seems to be no solid rules, and the precepts seem to be open to interpretation.

The obvious one in question here is number 5, something along the lines of 'I will not take intoxicants that lead to carelessness'.

Now some people have this down to mean abstinance from taking anything at all, but some Buddhists will happily drink a glass of wine as they know that a single glass won't 'lead to carelessness'. So, could it be argued that psychedelics could be exempt? I would say they lead to the opposite of carelessness if used correctly.
 
There are Buddhists and then there are Buddhists. I call myself one, Steve Jobs called himself one, but there are also a lot of Buddhists who live more dogmatically. I have a feeling you will find those more in Oriental countries than among the self-converted types. Personally I think Buddhism embodies the perennial philosophy best which is one of the reasons I agree with much of it.
Hardcore Buddhists (sounds like a paradox but alright then) could be expected to say that they appreciate the way psychedelics lead them to but they want to go use meditation and other practices that go at a normal pace and don't collapse for the most part like a house of cards when the effects fade. Of course we retain memory of the state but that is not the same as sustaining it.

It's certainly possible such Buddhists would say: meditation is better, and I agree myself that it is superior while being similar in many ways if you delve deeper. The dissonance that makes me not do it more often is the unrest many things have given me ever since I lost my meditative tendencies. The unrest makes it hard to do it more often even though it has the power to remedy part of it! I appreciate psychedelics to make me remember and realize every once in a while so that I can reconnect and get a chance again to get back into it. I have been trying for the past while, but still don't meditate nearly often enough as would be effective for my purposes.

But a significant issue Buddhists might have especially the ones who are not masters, is that psychedelics have a fair potential to produce a state of makyo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makyo

I have experienced Makyo sober during a week retreat of Zen meditation (sesshin), described it to others there are they explained the concept to me further. You should not read too much into the word 'devil' in the wiki link, while it does involve delusional experience from readjusting sensory stimuli or from some intricate mechanism, it is considered a natural part of the process and as such not really negative.

I think that the non-sustainable aspect of psychedelic states and the makyo-like aspect arising also from the process not going at your own natural pace are reason enough not to attach too much value to psychedelics.
On the other hand I'm sure many moderated Buddhists whom you might call reformed Western Buddhists (?) welcome psychedelics as a tool or facilitator. I guess I do too, I value psychedelics a whole lot. But in the context of Buddhism I do really have my doubts and think the emphasis should like on sustainability.

FYI: A method that I feel is great for producing less of a makyo effect with acid is instead of taking a large dose in one go, start with a moderate dose and almost at the end of the plateau drop a double dose to account for tolerance and deepen the state that is at that point much less muddled but instead clear and crystallized because you have passed the peak.
 
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^Excellent response and I could not agree more! I believe most would deny psychedelic use in real Buddhism aka monks in a temple in the west. In my mind though psychedelics can be used to significantly increase spirituality and the connectedness one has to their spiritual selves. I would never call myself a true Buddhist though as my approach is quite different and involves less learning about Buddhism its rules and ways and focuses more on being connected to the experiences of the "religion" itself and all the pluses that brings to ones life. I find you become more connected to the Buddhist religion this way. Easier to also reach enlightenment.:)
 
Splitz said:
One of the things that appeals to me about Buddhism is the lack of pushiness. There seems to be no solid rules, and the precepts seem to be open to interpretation.
Click to expand...

Depends which branch of buddhism your talking about. But in general, no, not really.

Splitz said:
The obvious one in question here is number 5, something along the lines of 'I will not take intoxicants that lead to carelessness'.
Click to expand...
Were do you have this from? The reason to not take intoxicants is mainly because it makes your meditation weak. And meditation is at the heart of buddhism. Meditation is important because it´s the only way to experience the truth of reality, which again is the only way to break free from the circle of rebirth. Very very simply said. Of cause, that intoxicants of all kind leads to unwholesome wrong actions is also a reason for abstinance.

Splitz said:
Now some people have this down to mean abstinance from taking anything at all, but some Buddhists will happily drink a glass of wine as they know that a single glass won't 'lead to carelessness'. So, could it be argued that psychedelics could be exempt? I would say they lead to the opposite of carelessness if used correctly.
Click to expand...

ALL intoxicants/drugs leads to a skewing of the senses, and to more "carelessness" as you put it. Even a glass of wine.

if you take psychedelic drugs you can experience some of the same things that people experience during meditation. If the wisdom/knowledge you gained can be used for anything good, I think most buddhist would dispute with you.

some Buddhists will happily drink a glass of wine......Sure, that´s because they are laymen, during all you reincarnation´s you are supposed to live an ordinary life, though living by the precepts, trying to have a good karma, maybe spending a couple of months as a monk in your youth. But at some point, through your reincarnations, your suppsoed to understand that you have to become a monk, and spend all your time meditating to break free from the circle of rebirths, that cause suffering.....etc.
 
What about the freeing yourself from attachments thing? ide say most hardcore buhhdists arnt about psychedelics.
 
I'm not sure if they would like to be related, however I think thier concept of the self being an illusion (maya) can be pretty relatable to experiences of ego-death, which may just be a kind of accepted spiritual experience that people experience globally, even outside of psychedelics and buddhism.
 
Well, if desire is the root of all suffering, then carelessness is exactly what you want. In a way.
 
^ Being a former sufferer of depression, I can say that the complete abstinence of desire to do or experience pretty much anything, combined with total carelessness, is definitely not the path to ease your suffering.
Quite the opposite.
 
Zig Zag Zen Buddhism and psychedelics is a book about the alleged link but it's pretty one-dimensional - the basic atitude is the old bullshit "Buddhism is permanent and psychedelics are temporary". But of course that only follows if you believe you reach the same place by buddhist meditation and taking 500mics of acid. I don't believe you do. Psychedelics are about you and the drug, there's no man-made theories telling you what to think, you simply experience it.

Just because you "study buddhism" is no guarantee to any sort of "enlightened life". The Tibetan monks for example ran a feudal slave system for hundreds of years where they enslaved the native tibetans and if they stole a goat to feed their starving families the buddhist monks would cut their hand off and gouge their eyes out. They broke those motherfuckers in two.

Perhaps the principle should be amended to: "No attachment to possessions - unless it's my goat motherfucker".
 
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