Swim has done ecstacy around 8 times within a span of 4 years. So SWIM went to EDC (for 7 hours) and decided to take two .25 gram moon rock mdma. This seems like a lot but pretty sure it was not that pure. SWIM also did not eat anything besides a bag of chips all day. At around 5pm SWIM started to take finger dips of the first bag, and around 7-730 the roll was hitting pretty good. Then the roll was starting to wear off so SWIM Started taking more finger dips on the second bag around 830 and finished the bag at 9pm. The roll barely re-peaked and there was almost no euphoria. On the subway back around 1030 SWIM experienced a bad panic attack and almost passed out(SWIM had been drinking water all day). Since their was barely any rolling after the second bag does this mean all the serotonin was drained which can cause damage to serotonin receptors? Anxiety has been heightened the past 2 weeks.
-
MDMA &
Empathogenic
Drugs
Welcome Guest! -
MDMA Moderators: Esperighanto
Could MDMA have damaged serotonin receptors?
- Thread starter jasper140
- Start date
Folley
Bluelighter
No SWIMng in these pools, we don't do that here 
Could it have caused damage? Sure. Is it likely to have? No.. I would say not. Nothing permanent, in the least. Give it some time.. you'll be back to your old self in no time.
Could it have caused damage? Sure. Is it likely to have? No.. I would say not. Nothing permanent, in the least. Give it some time.. you'll be back to your old self in no time.
futura2012
Bluelighter
Your pattern of use and MDMA history is text book HR so any potential damage is likely to be very very minimal and unnoticable or non existant. As folley has said if you have done a small amount of damage it will likely repair itself by having a long break.
3 months advised with a nice healthy lifestyle over this time.
Maybe consider next time just a single 150mG dose with no redosing.
Anxiety is a horrible thing but you are honestly worrying unnecessarily.
3 months advised with a nice healthy lifestyle over this time.
Maybe consider next time just a single 150mG dose with no redosing.
Anxiety is a horrible thing but you are honestly worrying unnecessarily.
Folley
Bluelighter
Clocktower
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2012
- Messages
- 2,041
You will feel better with time. In the future, weigh your dose and take it all at once, don't take "finger dips." That much redosing is like asking for a hangover.
Lightning-Nl
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 1,247
I would recommend taking something that antagonizes Serotonin and is also an NMDA receptor antagonist. The antagonization of Serotonin should help reduce any residual effects generated by the MDMA and the antagonization of the NMDA receptor should help reverse any neurotoxicity that was generated by the MDMA.
futura2012
Bluelighter
What specific drug did you have in mind?
Surely this would only be effective (if at all) very soon after the roll. perhaps only a few hours in.
I have heard that taking an SSRI post roll can assist neurotoxicity but never heard of NMDA receptor antagonists being recommended.
Lightning-Nl
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 1,247
For starts taking Magnesium supplements is a MUST! Magnesium is actually a natural NMDA receptor antagonist and should always be taken every night when on any sort of amphetamine to protect against neurotoxicity and it keeps your tolerance down.
Other than that, it's actually hard to say. Most common NMDA receptor antagonists, agonize Serotonin so personally, I would take an NMDA receptor antagonist that doesn't release, or inhibit the reuptake of Serotonin. And then also take a Serotonin antagonist. Most antipsychotics antagonize Serotonin. So maybe add some Seroquel on top of the Magnesium? I don't have time to look for an NMDA receptor antagonist that's easy to get and doesn't effect Serotonin in some way so here's an incomplete list of NMDA receptor antagonists.
futura2012
Bluelighter
Just out of interest why would you recommend an NMDA receptor antagonist in treatment for short term post MDMA use?
For a serotonin antagonist would an antipsychotic like Rispiridone be effective?
I have also heard taking an SSRI just an hour into rolling can be effective to prevent neurotoxicity what are your thoughts on this?
Totally different question but in terms of suitable antidepressants for MDMA related depression many people in ED share the opinion SSRIs are pretty ineffective if you have frazzled your brain in this way. Some suggest either Mirtazapine or Stablon are more suitable. What would be your opinion on this?
Also could you recommend a list of suppliments that you think would be effective for people suffering from MDMA depression / anxiety.
Im really sorry to throw this at you but I can see from your responses you are very educated and knowledgable in this field.
Hope you dont mind all the questions.
It might be m1/methylone/bk-mdma? Considering the overall time for you bein under the influence. Also I recommend always dose 2mg/kg, if you have 250mg for one night drop it all in one go. I don't recommend re-dose to anyone. Initial dose is all that matters
Darksidesam
Bluelight Crew
I would say try anti anxiety stuff, and i don't mean meds.
Try valerian root, camomile, flax seed, flax seed oil, Green T extract (L-theanine, anti anxiety and neuroprotective)
Exercising and getting sun is really important too because if you don't i dont think the brain will heal as well or as quickly.
Hope this helps somewhat
Try valerian root, camomile, flax seed, flax seed oil, Green T extract (L-theanine, anti anxiety and neuroprotective)
Exercising and getting sun is really important too because if you don't i dont think the brain will heal as well or as quickly.
Hope this helps somewhat
electrodevo
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2012
- Messages
- 323
I agree that it sounds more like a M1 experience. However, all stimulants have panic attacks as a potential side effects so that's sort of irrelevant (though if it's confirmed to be M1 I would agree about not redosing.) A panic attack btw does not equal permanent damage.
^ A panic attack does not mean permanent damage but it does mean his serotonin system has been hurt. It is really hard to say how much you dosed because we don't know if you took big finger dabs or small ones. Anyways serotonin and anxiety are strongly related. When your serotonin system is out of whack which it is with all regular users (not once in a blue moon users) your brain is under constant stress. Which is why you see so many threads on long term come downs, panic attacks, anxiety and so on. And what i have seen trending a lot is MANY MDMA users report feeling really anxious when they smoke weed which never happened before trying MDMA.
My theory is because when you are sober you may not really notice ill effects caused MDMA abuse or you are simply able to ignore it easier. But when you are recovering from MDMA and you smoke weed, there is nothing to hide. Everything comes out and your brain which is under stress and anxiety shows itself while you are high on weed and you freak out. It's happened to me plenty of times , as well as a lot of people on this site. Sorry for going off track with that last part but yea, an altered serotonin system means anxiety so stay away from it. You'll be good soon
My theory is because when you are sober you may not really notice ill effects caused MDMA abuse or you are simply able to ignore it easier. But when you are recovering from MDMA and you smoke weed, there is nothing to hide. Everything comes out and your brain which is under stress and anxiety shows itself while you are high on weed and you freak out. It's happened to me plenty of times , as well as a lot of people on this site. Sorry for going off track with that last part but yea, an altered serotonin system means anxiety so stay away from it. You'll be good soon
Lightning-Nl
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 1,247
It's interesting that you say that because Serotonin in itself is no excitatory, but is rather inhibitory. I never thought of it that way, but it's possible that the anxiety you can feel from SRA's would be considered paradoxical as Serotonin should in theory cause relaxation, rather than nervousness. I am unsure, however. I will so some research to see if I can figure out the anxiety causing mechanism of Serotonin.
Dose dependant neurotoxicity isn't really mediated by how long you take it for. Sure, if you take higher doses for a longer period of time - neurotoxicity will build up and be more damaging in the long run, but even short-term use can cause some neurotoxic effects. NMDA antagonists will usually reverse most the associated neurotoxicity by reversing the outflow of Ca++ ions.
I have no personal experiences with Rispiridone so I can't input from that perspective, however, by taking a look at Rispiridone's pharmacodynamic actions, I see no reason why it shouldn't be effective. However, something about Rispiridone raises a red-flag for me. It has been shown to irreversibly bind to and antagonize 5-HT7. Based on what I know about pharmacology, it seems to me that, that could cause problems in the future. Although I am unsure.
That is interesting. To quote wikipedia "SSRI's have been shown to almost completely eliminate the serotonergic effects of MDxx (e.g. MDMA). The exact mechanism that causes this interaction is still unclear." My thoughts is; most SSRI antidepressants work by binding to SERT, DAT, and NET. By blocking the Serotonin transporter, even if a Serotonin releasing agent is active in the body, an SSRI wouldn't allow any Serotonin to flow in or out of the Serotonin transporters and therefore would greatly dull any effects associated with a SRA.
I guess that makes sense. Since your brain has become accustom to a massive amount of Serotonin, having a measly amount more from an SSRI isn't going to do anything. Mirtazapine is excellent because of it's antagonistic effects on Serotonin. But (this is very important) Mirtazapine indirectly agonizes Serotonin at 5-HT1a. Studys have shown that 5-HT1a agonism also seems to stimulate the release of many neurotransmitters, but most noticeably, Dopamine and Beta-Endorphin. The heightened dopaminergic and endorphinergic activity can be attributed to Mirtazapines more potent antidepressant and anxiolytic effects over SSRI's
To be honest, I don't know a lot about supplements. However, from my experience with St. John's Wort, and the mechanism of action of Hypericin and Hyperforin, it should be effective at treating anxiety and depression. The anxiolytic effect of St. Johns Wort can be attributed to the GABA agonizing effects of Hyperforin, and the antidepressant effects can be attributed to the heighten Serotonin and Dopamine levels that are seemed to be caused by Hypericin. L-Tyrosine should also heighten levels of Dopamine and Norepinephrine in the body and could also be taken as well to help with anti-depression as well.
Not a problem at all! It's what interests me and I find it fascinating!