Opioids Could being a vegan aid in much more severe withdrawal symptoms from Heroin?

[JPaz79]

Hey everyone,

This is my first post here (well aside from the New Member thread) =P and I was discussing with a friend something that I thought was interesting and would love to hear your opinions on the subject.

Now my friend is a vegan and has been for many, many years. However, he does not treat his body as one "should" while being a vegan. I believe he is severely malnutritioned and lacking in many vitamins and minerals that I have been hounding him to take. He does not eat the best things for him.

On a kind of unrelated note I'm fairly concerned because he doesn't have any insurance and he has a number of undiagnosed conditions that really do make me worry because he is one of my best friends.

Anyways, he has been a IV heroin user for about 7 or 8 months now and within the last week or so he tells me that he keep waking up severely achey and his joints are in a lot of pain. Keep in mind that he is not in withdrawal during these times and it continues throughout the day. Now today, he is sick because he hasn't used since last night and he is quite sick now and he looks worse than he has in the past.

So my question to you all is would his veganism be one of the major contributing factors to why this is happening? I keep telling him to start taking multivitamins and he just yeses me to death haha. I also just find it an interesting question and would love to hear your input.

(also I'm sorry if this is the wrong thread to put this in, I'm still getting used to all of this =P)

Thanks everyone,
-J

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

Well, first off, vitamins help withdrawals for sure....I don't know exactly what your friend (or is it you? just have to ask) is missing as far as their diet goes.

I'm going to move this over to Other Drugs since its an opioid withdrawal question and you'll get some good answers over there.

BDD --> OD

 

[cj]

Buy the poor guy some multi vitamins.

 

[sekio]

Veganism can definitely be a cause of malnutrition/vitamin deficiency, really the best option is to have blood work done by a physician. Your friend may need B12 injections or something

Have your friend chart out his typical food consumption over 2-3 days. Then tally up the nutrients by using the Nutrition Information. If nothing looks obviously deficient, make sure your friend is getting the correct balance of amino acids in protien (most single-sources of protien, save for hempseed and things like that, are not balanced enough for humans to survive on unless you consume more than one source)

Also consider: total calories intaken vs daily energy expenditure, and the ratio of protien to carbs to fat.

 

[BlueHues]

I've been vegetarian on and off for years....meaning, I consume eggs and milk...Once you start talking about a vegan diet, it's much more delicate...If you NEVER have even eggs or milk or cheese, you have to be a lot more vigilant about obtaining the necessary nutrients, especially if you're regularly using heroin!

Just eating meat and processed carbs with NO veggies, fruit and fiber of any kind is bad for you...but you need those B vitamins as well!.....I've also read that taking D as a supplement not from the source is not well absorbed but IDK...

At least take some supplements...

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Yeah it certainly plays a factor. Being unhealthy period, for whatever the reason, will make it worse.

I could never be a vegan.. or vegetarian for that matter. Hah. I dated this chic once who made me try it.. I lasted 3 days until I went to the diner and got a burger.

 

['medicine cabinet']

there are things in vitamins that you cant get in natural foods. id tell him to go to a dr. i used to sell weed to a kid and he was a vegan and he weighed like 90 lbs and was like 5'9. he said it helped him eat, which im sure it did. but eating tons of multivits wont take the place of eating real food. you can be a vegan and be healthy, maybe even a healthy vegan heroin addict, i dont know. but if hes thats sick he should be seen by a dr, hes probably lacking some kind of nutrient. does he get enough protein?

 

[JPaz79]

Thank you very much! and no it isn't me. I'm just concerned and intrigued by why everything is happening.

 

[JPaz79]

Thank you very much! and no it isn't me. I'm just concerned and intrigued by why everything is happening.

He blames everything that is wrong him on being a vegan. He has been for about 9 years I want to say. Even though I am about 99% sure it is the sole reason his body basically hates him. And he really would go to a doctor but he cannot pay for health insurance so he is extremely reluctant. Anyways, my theory was that since the withdrawals cause a rather severe imbalance in the brain, wouldn't the malnutrition om most of everything going on? Would I be correct on that? He just eats what he "can" at this point and its not ever very much. I have been slowly trying to ween him into vegetarian. In my opinion he cares more about what he "can" eat rather what he cannot eat. The past week I've been telling him to get vitamins and I'm not giving him an option this time. I'll make him take them in front of me. I'll even get the gummy bear vitamins if i really have to

The only thing can almost assure he has is a stomach ulcer. A few months back he was puking after a shot and a look of horror came over his face and told me that he just threw up blood (He is really fine now and it happened) I can't even tell you how many times I've nagged him. I'm just glad that has not happened again since.

Oh and regarding the protein, I'm really not sure if he is getting enough protein, if at all. I just wish there was something more I could do for him. You can only do what is right and hope to help in anyway possible.

Thank you so much for the replies everyone,
I really do appreciate the responses.

~J

 

[tentram]

start feeding the poor cunt if you have to. sounds like he's definitely a non-functioning addict with no concept of keeping a proper balanced diet on top of the junk. does he even have much a clue on his supposed vegan diet after all these years?

it seems like he could do with a good check-up from his GP and better eating habits starting NAO.

make him read this if you can, that might give him the extra kick in the ass to realise he's really not looking after himself properly diet wise and needs to start asap. maybe veganism just isn't for him?

 

[down508]

I think heroin is the major contributing factor in this case. being malnourished is a pretty common thing with heroin addicts, and the h is probably a cause for his malnourishment which might be made worse by veganism. if you can't convince him to eat a steak then you should try to convince him to see a doctor and get blood work done so he can see what exactly his body is lacking. at the end of the day he is going to do what he decides to do, and if he is comfortable withering away because he refuses to eat animal products and uses i.v. heroin then there is nothing you can do to stop him. I would recommend a doctor, whatever excuse he has not to see one pales in comparison to what's at risk here. bottom line though if he's not willing to consider your suggestions he shouldn't burden you with details about his failing health, because that's not fare to you.

OP, the main thing is that you do all of this for him. When you've got a friend in the depths of an addiction they'll do nothing to help themselves, and often neglect to appreciate the effort you go to on their behalf.
The bloodwork isn't a realistic scenario because of the effort involved and he hasn't got health insurance. Tallying and monitoring his diet though is a good idea.
You can get him vegan protein powders from nutrition stores/websites, as well as vegan Omega oils, and of course essential multivitamins with high RDAs. Peanut butter is also an excellent source of healthy fats and proteins that your friend is msot probably deficient in.

Best of luck, I know how painful it is to see a friend suffer and only be able to do so much...

ok I disagree with this. he's not op's responsibility, and if she becomes his caretaker he will never learn to take care of himself, and op will get more and more attached to the point op is essentially his hostage. not a good idea, this guy needs a reality check badly.

 

[Diloadid]

Def. get some vitamins. If he is waking up with aches and pains it could be a lack of some essential vitamins (such as Vitamin C/D[Magnesium]).
I'm pretty positive the GNC brand of vitamins are vegan friendly. I could be mistaken. I'll google it really quick.

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3244940

This is a Vegetarian Multi-Vitamin that GNC offers (I'm really unsure of the differences in Vegan and Vegetarian). Also a bottle of GNC Niacin & Magnesium I own both claim to be Vegetarian friendly.

Sorry if there is a monumental difference between Vegetarianism and Veganism. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[T. Calderone]

Reminds me of when I was using too much and I got real thin. My neighbor used to bring me those boost shakes. I think there might a correlation between your friend's feeling real weak/sickly and a vitamin deficiency. I would hate to see him go through withdrawals.

 

[velmwend]

I really don't think the elimination of charred animal muscle and mammory secretions is going to affect withdrawal.

 

[T. Calderone]

JPaxz, I can picture your friend as pretty gaunt from your description. When you say malnourished you mean really thin and unhealthy looking right?

He may have an aversion to taking tablets, especially since supplements are sometimes big. Someone mentioned the gummy vitamins which might help. I use them because pills get stuck in my throat a lot and my son likes them too.

The best way to get him in a healthier state is helping him to get off heroin. Easier said than done, I wish there was a simple quick fix but there really are none. I have gained almost 40 pounds since I quit and still stuggle with a myriad of health problems. No health insurance either but state aid/medicaid will kick in if a hospital stay is necessary. Check into state or county programs that can assist the uninsured. PM me if you need help. I'm here.

 

[blight12]

As already mentioned Blood Tests FTW. This will answer all your questions and concerns accurately.

 

[Tryptamino]

why is it that so many vegans are heroin addicts? I bought tar from a guy who ran a vegan cafe, smacked 24/7. and this other guy who shot dope with me one time, his name was Spoons. He had been vegan for 4 years, and a heroin addict for 6... it makes no sense to me, especially with the addicts who kinda deserve the term "junkie", Spoons being the prime example.

vegan diets are NOT as insanely healthy as youve been told. in fact, eating eggs, REAL butter, turkey, fish, and 75% dark chocolate are all supposedly essential to the human diet. Not trying to get you to quit veganity, but just wanted to throw that out there.

one possible treatment for these joint pains and aches is...
yerba mate has all the vitamins and minerals needed to sustain life. or at least thats what a few scientists claim. i drink it everyday, and its definitely chock-full of nutrients. my mother drinks yerba mate when she has joint pain and bodyaches, and while it doesnt totally fix her up like magic, the joint pain goes away, probably due to the many minerals in the tea. in general, yerba mate is a daily essential, its vitamins, minerals and antioxidants are all very important to sustaining life and to combat against oxidation from drug use, cancer, or other complications. It also makes you feel really fucking happy for some reason.

Yerba mate beats any mutivitamin, because its chelated in the plant matter, and thus gets absorbed more efficiently. Also, Yerba Mate has a lot, if not all of the nutrients found in an average multivitamin, but it has even more.

I'm a big advocate for yerba mate, its the best, it tastes great, gets me fuckin wired, and its super healthy, to boot.

 

[BlueHues]

Being a vegetearian is a breeze compared to being a vegan!....even just having eggs once and awhile can make a big difference. I'm not a hundred percent vegetarian now, but my girlfrirend is.....Vegan's way more difficult and a pain in the ass, not just with what you have to avoid(tons of stuff) but what you have to go through to get decent nutrition..

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

It seems like everyone's advising this person on how to help their friend with malnutrition and unless I'm missing it, no ones really giving any info on your diets direct affect on opiate w.d

I've heard many people say diet is important when w.d'ing but no ones really gone into depth...