Continuous ketamine IV

[specialspack]

I assume that when ketamine is used as an anaesthetic, it's given as a continuous drip by IV.

One of the problems with the ketamine experience, is often the trip is too short, or too unstable - you find yourself somewhere interesting only to return too quick.

Would it be possible (under clinical conditions - don't try this at home kids!) to maintain an IV drip below anaesthetic levels, but at a psychedelic level? I don't suppose that's the kind of thing that would have much research application - unless it would be useful to look in relation to the NMDA model of schizophrenia?

Just out of interest, what would the dose regime be, roughly? What amount and rate would have have to used to maintain a steady blood level?

 

[negrogesic]

Maybe start with a single IV dose of 10mg, then have an infusion of .4-.5mg/kg/hr. Or, an IM dose, then a slow infusion. These doses may be too much or too little depending on your tolerance.

Why not post this in psychedelics forum? Also, the beauty of IV ketamine is the brief duration.

Keep in mind that doing this would be relatively dangerous without supervision...

 

[vecktor]

I have heard of this being done, but it is complex as with racemic ketamine the two isomers metabolise at different rates, so it doesn't quite work right. you end up with less S and more R as time goes on. additionally this would expose you to more norketamine and other metabolites than a single dosing scheme as the dose would be higher for longer.

My instinct is that as Ket is hepatic metabolised don't think I would want to stress the liver for too long, neither would it be a good idea to expose the kidneys and bladder to ket metabolites for longer. better approach is to use a longer lasting analogue like the N-ethyl. or for full on dysphoria MK801 or similar. doesn't really appeal.

Clearly this is not something that can be done without the proper kit and cannot be safely done outside a clinical setting. ketamine is not used much for extended duration anaesthesia, it is mostly used for short duration procedures, and emergency procedures

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you tried IV ketamine at all? If not, before you ponder an IV drip, I would try that. Its very different ime, I did not like IV ketamine at all. Its much more dysphoric for me.

I like the way IM ketamine warmly embraces you.

IV ketamine is like a bitchslap to the brain.

Clearly this is not something that can be done without the proper kit and cannot be safely done outside a clinical setting.

(my bold emphasis)

Why is that? You do not think a person could set up the proper environment in their home to safely administer an IV ketamine drip? As long as there is a sitter nearby (to unplug) I don't see what the problem is?

 

[vecktor]

(my bold emphasis)

Why is that? You do not think a person could set up the proper environment in their home to safely administer an IV ketamine drip? As long as there is a sitter nearby (to unplug) I don't see what the problem is?

In short yes.

 

[Jabberwocky]

what does the clinical setting have that we would lack? There's not much danger of life-threatening respiratory depression with K or anything, so I don't see what the problem is.

if you don't mind, would you think its a problem inherent only with ketamine or do you think it would be a problem to say set up a constant IV drip of DMT? (in other words, is it a problem inherent in what ketamine does to your body or is it a problem with just setting up a safe IV drip, period?).

 

[negrogesic]

It is possible that one could do this at home with an infusion pump, however a gravity fed drip sounds like a bad idea.

 

[Jamshyd]

As vektor suggested, an IV drip is more complex than just hooking up a rig to yourself, one has to take into account metabolism and adjust the rate accordingly.

The whole thing sounds like a disaster DIY. Especially if one were doing it alone.

 

[almost-]

I once participated in a study where plasmalevel of 300ng/ml of ketamine was computer-assistently continued for an hour. It was similar in effects to ~80mg IV shot or ~200mg IM shot, i.e not yet anesthetic.

 

[fastandbulbous]

They do it with burns patients to prevent tolerance to morphine increasing (continuous ketamine IV drip with 'top-ups' of morphine for the pain), but that's the only way I've heard it used and it's a rare occurance in hospitals

Other than that, I don't think it's done medically. If intended as an extender of ketamine's psychedelic activity, it's not going to work as part of the action of ketamine comes from not being knowledgeable of it's effects (a perfect case of 'familiarity breeds contempt' IMO ).

Besides, once you start extendfing the effects of ketamine beyond a couple of hours, you're into PCP trype neurotoxicity (well according to Karl Jansen if I read it* correctly)


*- Ketamine Dreams & Realities. K Jansen

 

[indelibleface]

I've found simply a subcutaneous injection of a moderate amount of ketamine provided a powerful and consistent two hour trip. There's no need to continuously administer the drug. It's nasal administration that creates the problems that you're talking about, at least in my experience.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I found the action of SC ketamine to be much shorter than 2 hours. More like 45 minutes or so with trailing effects.

 

[hugo24]

Other than that, I don't think it's done medically. If intended as an extender of ketamine's psychedelic activity, it's not going to work as part of the action of ketamine comes from not being knowledgeable of it's effects (a perfect case of 'familiarity breeds contempt' IMO ).

* correctly)

Getting out of k-hole correlates with diminishing plasma levels.But by getting familiar with it?Walking out of the hole for yourself?????At least it is an interesting psychological concept 8)

 

[fastandbulbous]

Well something beyond receptor based issues is responsible for the diminishing returns from ketamine (well IME)

 

[chemicalvibrations]

I assume that when ketamine is used as an anaesthetic, it's given as a continuous drip by IV.

One of the problems with the ketamine experience, is often the trip is too short, or too unstable - you find yourself somewhere interesting only to return too quick.

Would it be possible (under clinical conditions - don't try this at home kids!) to maintain an IV drip below anaesthetic levels, but at a psychedelic level? I don't suppose that's the kind of thing that would have much research application - unless it would be useful to look in relation to the NMDA model of schizophrenia?

Just out of interest, what would the dose regime be, roughly? What amount and rate would have have to used to maintain a steady blood level?

You can't iv ketamine. nope. You can IM it or snort or eat or absorb rectally b ut you can iv it. It'ss a cat tranquilizer. research it if you want don't take my word for it cause you don't know me from a hole in the ground. Just lookin out for the friendly stranger thats all.

 

[junglejuice]

No, you can definitely IV k.

There's no doubt about that

 

[indelibleface]

You can't iv ketamine. nope. You can IM it or snort or eat or absorb rectally b ut you can iv it. It'ss a cat tranquilizer. research it if you want don't take my word for it cause you don't know me from a hole in the ground. Just lookin out for the friendly stranger thats all.

I know I'm totally taking the troll-bait here, but just to clarify -- it's not just an animal tranquilizer. It's a popular anesthetic in humans too, especially in dental surgery. And, in clinical settings, it is given in an IV.

 

[LordKrishna]

Have you tried IV ketamine at all? If not, before you ponder an IV drip, I would try that. Its very different ime, I did not like IV ketamine at all. Its much more dysphoric for me.

I like the way IM ketamine warmly embraces you.

IV ketamine is like a bitchslap to the brain.


(my bold emphasis)

Why is that? You do not think a person could set up the proper environment in their home to safely administer an IV ketamine drip? As long as there is a sitter nearby (to unplug) I don't see what the problem is?

:cough: pussy :cough:

I have pondered about getting a catheter and having a ketamine drip before. and chances are within the next 2 years I will have done it.

I personally do not know anything as weirdly pleasurable as IVed ketamine. Iv IVed god knows what, from dope to adderal, have stuck more drugs up my butt then I care to count, have nosed countless psychedelics and ketamine IVed is beyond them all.

 

[Hammilton]

You can't iv ketamine. nope. You can IM it or snort or eat or absorb rectally b ut you can iv it. It'ss a cat tranquilizer. research it if you want don't take my word for it cause you don't know me from a hole in the ground. Just lookin out for the friendly stranger thats all.

Man, and people wonder why I'm such a prick. Morons like this.

 

[LordKrishna]

Why is that? You do not think a person could set up the proper environment in their home to safely administer an IV ketamine drip? As long as there is a sitter nearby (to unplug) I don't see what the problem is?

the reason I have not done this yet is when I was discussing it (at a time I could have done it) it would have required an IV catheter which apparently can lead to terrible bacterial infection just simply from the air. The person I was with would not support me so I choose to abandon the idea. Now that Im on my own I think I may take a stab at it.

Another thing Im wondering, is the effects of 500mg IVed from a 5ml syringe. All these are becoming very real possibilities for me to attempt in the future.