Jakeperson
Bluelighter
I have always said that if I say I have quit drugs, that doesn't mean psychedelics. I believe they can be used for other reasons than getting high, however using psychs regularly for me is not being clean.
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Confused recovering addict wanting to use psychedelics
- Thread starter myersiscurous
- Start date
psilocybophile
Greenlighter
I agree with the view that psychedelics can be considered 'different' from the kinds of substances that you've been addicted to, depending on your mindset and motivations for taking them. I just wanted to ask a question though regarding your desire to be able to tell your future clients you've been 'clean for x years'. As others have already pointed out, that would be an entirely voluntary piece of information - what would be your reasons for doing so? If it's purely a case of wanting to act as a 'role model' to them, someone who has been in a similar place to where they are with addiction and has come through it, then I'm not sure that saying you're 100% 'clean' would be the most helpful thing for them or for you.
IMO, you could either follow this advice (which may of course be a problem in terms of your contractual obligations in that position), or refrain from volunteering the information and help them using your own experience in a more implicit way. If using psychedelics helps you to overcome addiction and develop spiritually in a way that helps you stay off the substances you've had problems with, then it follows that the people you want to help with their problems might potentially be able to do the same thing. As a role model to them in their attempts to stop abusing, if you're telling them that you're '100% clean' without mentioning the psychedelics, maybe that would put them off considering psychedelics as something that could help them?
IMO, you could either follow this advice (which may of course be a problem in terms of your contractual obligations in that position), or refrain from volunteering the information and help them using your own experience in a more implicit way. If using psychedelics helps you to overcome addiction and develop spiritually in a way that helps you stay off the substances you've had problems with, then it follows that the people you want to help with their problems might potentially be able to do the same thing. As a role model to them in their attempts to stop abusing, if you're telling them that you're '100% clean' without mentioning the psychedelics, maybe that would put them off considering psychedelics as something that could help them?
TCMVegas
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2012
- Messages
- 147
You wouldn't feel honest telling people that you've been clean.
However, maybe you don't want to say that.
Maybe you'd rather say you "haven't used drugs recreationally or irresponsible" for x years. Isn't that the goal anyways?
Maybe patients would be more receptive to a responsible, occasional drug user than someone who practices abstinence.
However, maybe you don't want to say that.
Maybe you'd rather say you "haven't used drugs recreationally or irresponsible" for x years. Isn't that the goal anyways?
Maybe patients would be more receptive to a responsible, occasional drug user than someone who practices abstinence.
25I_am_so_wonderfu
Bluelighter
Thats weird. Ive known people to smoke DMT then move on months later to snorting coke and K all day long.
rules
Bluelighter
this is why I hate the way the medical community, rehabs, and all 12 step programs view addiction. I was addicted to heroin and other opiates for 3 years. I've been clean for 77 days and everyone is always telling me, you can NEVER use any drugs again, they'll all lead back to heroin. This really pisses me off because I know for a fact I can use other drugs successfully because I've done so in the past for a long time so in conclusion it's really up to you and what you consider a relapse. I know for me I would only relapse if I took any opiates. In my opinion addiction and addict behavior is simply not a disease, it's a personality type. That's just my two cents though.
it has been said before - "drug" is a big word summing up a lot of very different substances serving a lot of very different purposes.
let's say you also consider sugar a drug it will become pretty hard to be "clean".
the important point is what "clean" actually means - for the sake of simplicity i'd say clean is the opposite of dirty and dirty is much easier to define. dirty basically means "it's bad for you".
that gives the power (of definition) back to you and that's what you're looking for, right? being able to define yourself and not being defined by others (?)
let's say you also consider sugar a drug it will become pretty hard to be "clean".
the important point is what "clean" actually means - for the sake of simplicity i'd say clean is the opposite of dirty and dirty is much easier to define. dirty basically means "it's bad for you".
that gives the power (of definition) back to you and that's what you're looking for, right? being able to define yourself and not being defined by others (?)
I would hold off using psychedelics for the time being. 110 (or more like 120 by now) days sober is a great accomplishment, but you're still very early on in your recovery and hence particularly vulnerable. After you've gained more of a foothold in recovery, your desire to do psychedelics may abate, or you may have a different perspective on the question you've posed here.
Bottom line, if you're committed to recovery, there's no reason to rush. And if you do feel a strong urgency here, well, I'd say that's all the more reason to hold off.
Bottom line, if you're committed to recovery, there's no reason to rush. And if you do feel a strong urgency here, well, I'd say that's all the more reason to hold off.
Flickering
Bluelighter
This is something I've wondered myself. I'm doing the same thing you are, getting into youth counselling. I was never an addict, but I don't plan to stop using psychedelics. Is that, er... wrong, if I'm counselling people for drug problems? Interested to see what people say here.
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
definitely not 'wrong', it'll make you more insightful as a counselor (it may help you see things from a different perspective). Shit almost all drug counselors have had serious addictions, so it is immensely helpful in understanding others with addiction. I would never take addiction advice from someone who learned their shit out of a textbook, i want help from people who have actually been there and done it and somehow made it out or even didn't that can provide me helpful advice to live a better life.
i guess being a youth counselor is different but i'm sure you'll run into many kids with drug problems or who are at the beginning of drug addiction and having experience in drugs/knowing all about them will help you gain trust and actually do some good in this world. I think psychedelics would still be incredibly helpful in terms of empathy and seeing things through another person's eyes.
Probably not a great idea to pick up a heroin/meth/ketamine habit to help the kids you are counseling but at the very least, it's helpful to know about drugs, what they do, why people do them and how people end up fucked up in the first place. Compassion, empathy and openness are some of the qualities that make great counselors and psychedelics are conducive to bringing those qualities out, so i see no problem.
i guess being a youth counselor is different but i'm sure you'll run into many kids with drug problems or who are at the beginning of drug addiction and having experience in drugs/knowing all about them will help you gain trust and actually do some good in this world. I think psychedelics would still be incredibly helpful in terms of empathy and seeing things through another person's eyes.
Probably not a great idea to pick up a heroin/meth/ketamine habit to help the kids you are counseling but at the very least, it's helpful to know about drugs, what they do, why people do them and how people end up fucked up in the first place. Compassion, empathy and openness are some of the qualities that make great counselors and psychedelics are conducive to bringing those qualities out, so i see no problem.
Jesusgreen
Bluelight Crew
I don't think it's wrong, so long as they don't interfere with your ability to help these people in any way.
This is probably really obvious to you already but of course just because you've decided to use psychedelics doesn't mean you should lead the people you counsel to believe that it's okay for them to trip and just not use other drugs. While I'm not saying it's not okay, it really depends on the person, why they use drugs, etc, and it'll overcomplicate your work if you try to decide where to draw that line yourself.
Crashing
Bluelighter
Not a problem at all, as long as you're honest with them about it if/when they ask you about psychedelic drugs. Because you will definitely be hit with that question from a lot of dope heads who know the deal.
Of course then your reputation as a counselor could go down, but you gotta stand up for what you believe in.
Psychedelics are not for everybody, I don't mean that in an elitist way but I think there are fine occasions to get exposed to knowledge of the general existence psychedelics, and there are situations that are far less than ideal. Drug counselling would be one of the latter.
An example: apparently, in prison you can often pick up new criminal skills. And in rehab you can often pick up new potential drug interests and fixations. Sounds ironic for one, but it also confuses what you are doing there. That is one way to interpret JG's mention of "overcomplication".
It just doesn't seem like the place to make a point of being a psychedelics advocate or enthousiast, I think it is a myopic kind of idealism to think that it shows moral backbone to stand up for your principles. When there is no avoiding it, I wouldn't lie - I would still stand behind my use of psychedelics - but there should be plenty of opportunity to dodge the topic, when you don't pretend it is impossible to dodge.
Maybe I am nitpicking about the difference between actively standing up for something and passively standing behind something, but I think there is something to say for keeping it appropriate. Never mind reputations.
An example: apparently, in prison you can often pick up new criminal skills. And in rehab you can often pick up new potential drug interests and fixations. Sounds ironic for one, but it also confuses what you are doing there. That is one way to interpret JG's mention of "overcomplication".
It just doesn't seem like the place to make a point of being a psychedelics advocate or enthousiast, I think it is a myopic kind of idealism to think that it shows moral backbone to stand up for your principles. When there is no avoiding it, I wouldn't lie - I would still stand behind my use of psychedelics - but there should be plenty of opportunity to dodge the topic, when you don't pretend it is impossible to dodge.
Maybe I am nitpicking about the difference between actively standing up for something and passively standing behind something, but I think there is something to say for keeping it appropriate. Never mind reputations.
Crashing
Bluelighter
You can call it a 'myopic kind of idealism'... But if you don't stand up for what you believe in, then who are you, and of what value are your contributions?
Drug rehab isn't about not taking drugs and avoiding learning the truth about them, it's about changing the way you deal with your problems. The whole system needs people who understand that, not people who are going to just go with the same ancient 12 step flow, which is just dependency replacement, because it doesn't do shit except detox people.
Drug rehab isn't about not taking drugs and avoiding learning the truth about them, it's about changing the way you deal with your problems. The whole system needs people who understand that, not people who are going to just go with the same ancient 12 step flow, which is just dependency replacement, because it doesn't do shit except detox people.
Thorns Have Roses
Bluelight Crew
^The raised nail gets hammered down, as the saying goes. Prudence pays, plus proselytizing pisses people off.
Crashing
Bluelighter
The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. People will get pissed, shit, the natives weren't happy with us either.
I can relate a little bit.
I had nearly 4 years clean (except occasional marijuana use). My DOC's were alcohol , cocaine & benzos.
Early last year I injured my leg doing heavy squats. I would occasionally pop a couple Vic's to ease the pain and this is what I think triggered my relapse months later (the feeling of being high started to peak my interest again). Around June of last year I had a full blown relapse which started with cocaine. Next thing you know I fell back into drinking and popping benzos to come down on the coke. A few months into my relapse , being highly disgusted with my self I started researching pysedelics to combat addiction. I had my first experience since 2006 with LSD in October of 2012. By no means did this cure me but since then I've managed to completely cut cocaine out of my life for the past 3 months and my drinking has cut wayyy back from near daily use to 1-2x a week and with moderation. I'd like to cut alcohol out for good and is my main goal at the moment. Since revisiting LSD I've tripped 1-2x a week on various compounds (LSD , MDMA , DOC , 5-meo-mipt , 4-ho-mipt , 4-ho-met , 4-aco-DMt) I don't think this casual of use is in anyway healthy but I'm not disgusted with myself and filled with shame like I would be if I was still using the cocaine which took a toll on my sanity and damaged me financially. I am cutting back on my pysedelics use and trying to limit it to every couple weeks and eventually once a month. I don't have much advise just figured I'd throw my .02 in since I can relate in some ways.
I had nearly 4 years clean (except occasional marijuana use). My DOC's were alcohol , cocaine & benzos.
Early last year I injured my leg doing heavy squats. I would occasionally pop a couple Vic's to ease the pain and this is what I think triggered my relapse months later (the feeling of being high started to peak my interest again). Around June of last year I had a full blown relapse which started with cocaine. Next thing you know I fell back into drinking and popping benzos to come down on the coke. A few months into my relapse , being highly disgusted with my self I started researching pysedelics to combat addiction. I had my first experience since 2006 with LSD in October of 2012. By no means did this cure me but since then I've managed to completely cut cocaine out of my life for the past 3 months and my drinking has cut wayyy back from near daily use to 1-2x a week and with moderation. I'd like to cut alcohol out for good and is my main goal at the moment. Since revisiting LSD I've tripped 1-2x a week on various compounds (LSD , MDMA , DOC , 5-meo-mipt , 4-ho-mipt , 4-ho-met , 4-aco-DMt) I don't think this casual of use is in anyway healthy but I'm not disgusted with myself and filled with shame like I would be if I was still using the cocaine which took a toll on my sanity and damaged me financially. I am cutting back on my pysedelics use and trying to limit it to every couple weeks and eventually once a month. I don't have much advise just figured I'd throw my .02 in since I can relate in some ways.