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Confused recovering addict wanting to use psychedelics

myersiscurous

myersiscurous

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Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
4
I'm a recovering addict with 110 days clean. I was addicted to opiates and MDMA and had a cannabis dependency as well. I'm an aspiring drug counselor and want to help the youth gain knowledge and understanding of the disease concept of addiction.

I only have one question and it's something that's been bothering me for some time now. When I reach my goal of becoming a drug counselor, I want to be able to proudly and honestly say I have "x" years clean and sober. The problem I'm having is that I want to experiment with some natural psychedelics for spiritual and SPIRITUAL PURPOSES ONLY. I know many people that just take hallucinogens to get "messed up" and I'm not that type of person. I've been reading about the benefits of using psychedelics for a while now and want to try some like DMT, mescaline and ibogaine.

My question for you is, would I have to consider this a relapse? I understand these psychedelics aren't addictive and these weren't my problem while I was struggling with addiction in the first place.

Like I said, I would be taking these for the spiritual/enlightenment purposes only, not to get "messed up" or "high" or any other term referring to misuse. This is something I really want, but could obviously live without, but I see many benefits to a life with the occasional trip.

If I started occasionally using psychedelics would it be a lie when telling my future patients that I have "5 years clean and sober"?

I understand these would only be opinions, but I'm just looking for reassurance. I don't want to feel guilty in the future. And if going on a few trips jeopardizes my sobriety, then I can do without.

Thank you in advance for the future wisdom. =D
 
It's really your call. Many musicians used such purchases to give them a more open mind to find themselves without being labeled as druggies. I used hallucinogens once and it did open my mind to certain things.
If you are going to try I would suggest have something in your mind which you wish to focus on rather than just laying there and letting all sorts of things pop into your mind. Also, try a small dose first.

As I said, it's your call really, but if you go for it use a small dose.
 
Chairman Meow-Meow said:
It's really your call. Many musicians used such purchases to give them a more open mind to find themselves without being labeled as druggies. I used hallucinogens once and it did open my mind to certain things.
If you are going to try I would suggest have something in your mind which you wish to focus on rather than just laying there and letting all sorts of things pop into your mind. Also, try a small dose first.

As I said, it's your call really, but if you go for it use a small dose.
Click to expand...

You must've not read what my actual question is. I've already tripped before, I know proper doses for the point of breaking the threshold. My question was if it would be considered a relapse.
 
It depends on your moral opinion at the end of the day...if you are a recovering addict and you really ask anyones suggestion ide say stay sober but its your desicion and i dnt see why your spiritual psychidelic use would be wrong, youre not just there to say drugs are bad youre there to help those who really need help and to share your expirience as you struggled with drugs...its up to you and as long as you keep it under control and dont experiment with things youve struggled with, i woudnt call it a relapse...and ive never heard of such thing as a person being addicted to shrooms dmt or lsd...do whats best for you at the end of the day, thats what we should pursue in life, our happyness...anyways good luck man
 
I appreciate that. Thank you.
AlprazoCodone said:
It depends on your moral opinion at the end of the day...if you are a recovering addict and you really ask anyones suggestion ide say stay sober but its your desicion and i dnt see why your spiritual psychidelic use would be wrong, youre not just there to say drugs are bad youre there to help those who really need help and to share your expirience as you struggled with drugs...its up to you and as long as you keep it under control and dont experiment with things youve struggled with, i woudnt call it a relapse...and ive never heard of such thing as a person being addicted to shrooms dmt or lsd...do whats best for you at the end of the day, thats what we should pursue in life, our happyness...anyways good luck man
Click to expand...
 
psycs dont t make me creative benzos and weed and suboxone but i dont know weezy made no worries bout shrooms
 
being 'clean' isnt one of those things that is 100% set n stone or clearly defined

is someone 'clean' if they're on maintenance drugs?
in AA n NA most people end up using cigs n coffee, are they techinically clean just cuz they are usin legal substances
is an ex heroin addict clean n if they smoke a lil pot every now n then?


its really how you look at things n no one can tell you for sure

you say you dont wanna feel fuilty about sayin you have X amount of clean time if you've been usin psychs, well do you feel like its a farse to say ive been clean n sober for X amount of time if you have the occasional enthegenic trip every now n then? cuz no one will really know you've tripped accept you, so its all how you look at it.

if someone told me im n ex heroin n mdma addict, i have 5 years clean i would say well right on man thats awesome. n if they followed that with yea bout a year ago i took some LSD to evaluate somethings n my life n look for some sort of spiritual guidance, i would say " were you able to accomplish what you set out to do?"

some people think that addiction can stem from some sort of lack of spiritual significance in ones life, there are a ton of counseling groups that even tell you that the only way to beat/recover an addiction is to gives oneself up to a higher power. i think its natural for an ex addict to be searchin for that spiritual purpose/meaning in life.

some will think psych use excludes one from being clean and some wont, but ultimately it depends on how you see it n thats all that matters, it'd be easier if you werent lookin to go into counseling because you will be helping n advising people on how they can change their lives n inevitably people will wanna know your story n such but 1st off you dont necessarily have to share with them anything, sure most people find comfort in the fact that the person they are recieving guidance from has had certain experiences n what not but you dont owe your life story to them or anything (im in a rehab n substance abuse class and my teacher is also a drug counselor n i sent him n email askin him a question n as a PS i asked him if he was an ex addict n if so what his DOC was, i told him if he didnt wanna answer or tell me it was understandable n he didnt, he didnt even address the fact that he didnt wanna answer the ? he simply just didnt answer that part of my email n i left it at that) but 2nd you dont have to feel guilty bout your chosen path to recoverry/life if you feel your doin better n are helping others then leave it at that n feel good that you've helped/attempted to help others

this thread tho might provide you with insight as to what others consider being clean n sober can be defined as but dont let anyones opinion dictate how you'll act or what you will or will not do. just keep your eye on the prize, know how you wanna live your life n be true to yourself n your values
 
myersiscurous said:
I'm a recovering addict with 110 days clean. I was addicted to opiates and MDMA and had a cannabis dependency as well. I'm an aspiring drug counselor and want to help the youth gain knowledge and understanding of the disease concept of addiction.

I only have one question and it's something that's been bothering me for some time now. When I reach my goal of becoming a drug counselor, I want to be able to proudly and honestly say I have "x" years clean and sober. The problem I'm having is that I want to experiment with some natural psychedelics for spiritual and SPIRITUAL PURPOSES ONLY. I know many people that just take hallucinogens to get "messed up" and I'm not that type of person. I've been reading about the benefits of using psychedelics for a while now and want to try some like DMT, mescaline and ibogaine.

My question for you is, would I have to consider this a relapse? I understand these psychedelics aren't addictive and these weren't my problem while I was struggling with addiction in the first place.

Like I said, I would be taking these for the spiritual/enlightenment purposes only, not to get "messed up" or "high" or any other term referring to misuse. This is something I really want, but could obviously live without, but I see many benefits to a life with the occasional trip.

If I started occasionally using psychedelics would it be a lie when telling my future patients that I have "5 years clean and sober"?

I understand these would only be opinions, but I'm just looking for reassurance. I don't want to feel guilty in the future. And if going on a few trips jeopardizes my sobriety, then I can do without.

Thank you in advance for the future wisdom. =D
Click to expand...

it wouldnt be a lie if u told them "im 5/6/7 yrs clean, whatever, and am using psychedelics to attempt to understand some things about myself that could make it easier for even YOU to know me"

that kind of thing
dont fall victim to this "relapse" mumbo jumbo
 
I think you don't have to call it a relapse if you feel it's all done in another vein (no pun intended). With drugs that are more liable to get abused like for instance dissociatives I would be suspicious about therapeutic use of them by addicts, especially if it turns frequent.
But psychedelics have never felt in any way compulsive or escapist even though I guess I am an addict. I never had just the one substance problem but I went through tough times in the past. Periods with cannabis, GHB and ketamine abuse... but I do consider those phases, even if my weakness to addiction isn't one. Yet psychedelics run through everything like a red thread (not sure if that is English idiom) and I still rather stop using them than abuse them in desperate times. They just symbolize being truthful to me.

If you are the same and using psychedelics is a way of being (ritualistically) truthful to yourself rather than knowing at some buried level that you are taking them because they are the only thing you could consciously take to get messed up... then I just think it would be a misunderstanding to call it a relapse just because psychedelics fall under the label drugs (drugs being substances taken that change you). Medicines are also drugs but you take them to get better. Still self-medication is a typical justification of the addict but I guess it will come down to what you can convince yourself of.

Falling off the wagon is not a technicality. Taking psychedelics should also not be a psychological failure that represents total failure to you, it does not represent taking up drugs again as a whole. In my mind psychedelics are entirely separated just like nootropics are for a number of reasons including the fact that I never for a second worried about getting addicted to them. Something differing entirely from the other drugs that in some way reward nothing but taking the drug and/or are numbing.
 
I think of relapse as being a state of mind - falling back into old destructive habits due to a lapse of discipline and control. I wouldn't consider using psychedelics to facilitate a better understanding of yourself to be a relapse because you have a much different mindset and reason for using the drug. Likewise, taking painkillers temporarily for a severe injury also would not be a relapse, imo.

If you get hung up on the fact that you would be taking a drug(dmt, mescaline, whatever) you might want to try a natural method like meditation, lucid dreaming, sensory deprevation, etc.
 
get this NA talk out of your head and you'll be fine, no such thing as clean time or relapses, it's all bullshit, you'll see that once u trip hard enough. I'd go for it.
 
Agreed about the NA. The positive or negative thing about NA or AA (from what I understand about them), depending of your perspective is what you find more important: the truth or being able to function. I guess a number of people is helped by crutches people hang on to, crutches that may really be illusions. Addicts tend to have boundary issues. There is any number of ways to brainwash an addict to create boundaries that are ultimately made up by man. The problem people have with the NA or AA must mainly be about the things that are made up about it (let's not get into a religion debate here), not about the success the subsequent boundaries yield.

This is a metaphor for your dilemma: being able to say "xxx time clean and sober" is an NA/AA boundary construction to emphasize the boundary between using and not using. It is designed to get rid of gray areas. It is easier to be black and white about these things which can also be the downfall if someone steps out of the white area.
If you decide that using psychedelics is all about going out of the white area of abstenence, it will not be good for your intuitive attitude towards your addiction. If you realize that you only made up these black and white ideas to make things easier and suspend them for something like a psychedelic you trust to use for virtuous reasons, after that there is no reason to consider yourself fallen from heaven (the white area) and to leave the back door open for actual drug use/abuse.
 
I just used Ibogaine to STOP my addiction, so if you're worried about that one on your list, you could just call it research :-)

I class psychs in a completely different class, as I believe they are the few drugs that give the user something to work on long after the drug wears off. I've only had a few trips where I didn't learn something about myself. Despite their stigma as drugs, I believe them to be one of the easiest introspective tools one can use!
 
I wouldn't consider it a relapse, but it matters most what you consider it to be. If you're using psychedelics for spiritual reasons than who is to tell you that isn't the case. Just be honest with yourself and if it's for a greater good then do it.

i used to iv heroin all day, now i havent touched the shit in a long time and i enjoy psychedelics now just like i always have.
 
It really depends on what your attitude and view on drugs is. Do you feel that drug use as a whole has been detrimental to you, do you feel that you end up just becoming obsessed with the altered states they produce regardless of the substance, and find that even lighter substances like Cannabis end up impacting you negatively over time?

Many people are in a way addicted to drugs as a whole, not to *a* drug. So any use can quickly lead to abuse if this attitude doesn't change, and drugs will often have a very negative impact on these peoples lives, even when they're using small amounts of relatively safe drugs. It's not always about the physical/mental harm that the drugs can do, but sometimes it can be easy to just become obsessed with drugs as a whole and end up with your life revolving around them.

The fact that you say you were addicted to Cannabis too makes me feel like you may be one of these people. Cannabis isn't particularly addictive when compared to a lot of substances, but those people who are addicted to "being on something" will find it very addictive especially due to it being cheap and easily accessible.

Maybe you should ask yourself what your real reason for wanting to use psychedelics is. Have you really found psychedelics that beneficial or are you simply longing for some kind of change in consciousness again?

The important thing is to ensure your life doesn't become focused on drugs again. I do not see there being any potential harm in the occasional trip if you're mentally stable, but if it causes you to yearn for more altered states it could do more harm than good.

Hope this helps. Just think very hard about how it'll affect you before you decide :)
 
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