Completely relapsed on Tramadol ;(

[Colmes]

Hello everyone. I was on the forums a few weeks back happy that I was finally off of tramadol. Many people, myself included; go through disproportionally severe w/d in relation to the "high" that tramadol gives you.

I was laying on my couch for about 8 days or so....and was still feeling weird and depressed several weeks after I quit. I did quit cold turkey, as I took my whole supply.

I am aware of the anti-depressant properties so I took so prozac during the initial w/d stage and it completely eliminated any brain zaps...but the depression was debilitating.

What is different now as opposed to one month ago? Back in college; I have classes, papers, all that crap, as expected... something I know I just could not do while on tramadol withdrawal.

Im honestly scared. 200mg used to make me feel productive, and a nice happy feeling with a slight opiate feeling...then 300mg was needed...then 400mg and so on. Now I need to take above 400mg to feel it; and it is like playing Russian roulette due to the seizure risk. I am 4 months clean off of amphetamines, which I had been abusing, but also completely relying on to get through school for my college career. Tramadol increased my focus initially, I thought it would be a good less harsh replacement, now i'm back on it; I barely feel it, and using a combination of logic and the fact I know myself pretty well; I CANNOT handle the tramadol w/d AND school at the same time.


Ugh I needed to vent. If anyone has any suggestions, that would be cool.


Be Well

 

[zachattack]

i myself have been battling a tramadol addiction. i know i need to quit, i just havent been able to bring myself to stop. you should be proud of yourself for having the willpower to quit. there are always bumps in the road. you just have to keep at it. dont let this discourage you! keep your chin up, do what you have to do.

question for you: if one doesnt have prozac, what could one do to lessen the w/d? honestly, your post has inspired me to try to quit

 

[Ixchellian]

first step is to stop gobbling down your whole supply within a week. get one of those weekly pill cases, and split up your supply into daily alotments. mix in some multi-vitamins, so when you open each day's box there's four or five pills instead of just one or two. it helps with the mental anxiety with trying to taper down.

 

[sid3]

^this really helps when tapering. Adding some b-6 B12, 5HTP, ltyrosine and some dlpa feeds the mental need to be taking something throughout the day.
The supplements are all beneficial as they all help lessen some of the nasty wd symptoms.

 

[User Name Here]

Tramadol was by far one of the most addictive drugs I've ever used, and it was so hard to give up because I could get it from any doctor or hell, even order it online since it isn't a narcotic (I think it should be). I loved how it made me so productive and how easily I woke up in the morning. I loved the lucid feeling I got while lying in bed at night. I finally got sick of opiates because I wasn't doing anything with myself and, well, it's a story that's been told a million times. Anyway, long story short, I was able to kick heroin and oxycontin before I could stop taking Tramadol. My withdrawals were so severe from it that I would end up in absolute gut-wrenching pain, cold-sweats, you name it... Finally I shot myself in the foot by telling my doctor everything and actually asked him to put my name out for being an addict so that I couldn't go and get it filled at any pharmacies (if I had tried to fill a prescription of it, my name would have been flagged and I could have faced legal problems as a result). I mean I actually did that to myself and it was the ONLY way I was able to stop. I kept enough Tramadol to taper myself down comfortably but I knew that I had to use it wisely because I would never be able to get it again, not even online as it's U.S. pharmacies that fill those prescriptions a lot of the time.

Perhaps you should consider doing the same thing? It will be the hardest thing to do but get yourself one last prescription to keep yourself comfortable and safe during withdrawals and then tell a doctor about your problem. This is just a suggestion though. Only you can determine what is right for you.

Regardless of what happens I wish you the best of luck. PM me if you need to. I know exactly where you are and how you feel right now, if that's any consolation...

 

[Colmes]

Tramadol was by far one of the most addictive drugs I've ever used, and it was so hard to give up because I could get it from any doctor or hell, even order it online since it isn't a narcotic (I think it should be). I loved how it made me so productive and how easily I woke up in the morning. I loved the lucid feeling I got while lying in bed at night. I finally got sick of opiates because I wasn't doing anything with myself and, well, it's a story that's been told a million times. Anyway, long story short, I was able to kick heroin and oxycontin before I could stop taking Tramadol. My withdrawals were so severe from it that I would end up in absolute gut-wrenching pain, cold-sweats, you name it... Finally I shot myself in the foot by telling my doctor everything and actually asked him to put my name out for being an addict so that I couldn't go and get it filled at any pharmacies (if I had tried to fill a prescription of it, my name would have been flagged and I could have faced legal problems as a result). I mean I actually did that to myself and it was the ONLY way I was able to stop. I kept enough Tramadol to taper myself down comfortably but I knew that I had to use it wisely because I would never be able to get it again, not even online as it's U.S. pharmacies that fill those prescriptions a lot of the time.

Perhaps you should consider doing the same thing? It will be the hardest thing to do but get yourself one last prescription to keep yourself comfortable and safe during withdrawals and then tell a doctor about your problem. This is just a suggestion though. Only you can determine what is right for you.

Regardless of what happens I wish you the best of luck. PM me if you need to. I know exactly where you are and how you feel right now, if that's any consolation...

Thank you for your post and it has helped me a lot; I will take you up on your offer of sending you a PM.

To the first poster; any antidepressant will do a great deal to help with the brain zaps and some of the depression ...and the shock your body goes through when coming off the drug. The drug tramadol is MOST similar pharmacologicaly speaking is actually effexor - except of course effexor doesn't affect your opiate receptors so those withdrawals are still there. Really any anti depressant will help; I just always preferred prozac as it is very long lasting and you can take it for several weeks with no w/d symptoms; due to its half-life.

In regards to just taking more pills, I know it is stupid, and that I am stopping. This however is what I did last time. I had the usual week pill container to put each days pills in, gradually decreasing my dosage until zero; what happened was that I found that as long as I had the drug tramadol in the house, I would take it; no matter how much I tried to talk myself out of it. Not to compare it to oxycontin, as I knew the strength is much different....(but those with depression or anxiety really do feel great from that instant anti depressant effect Tramadol gives.) - but regardless of strength oxy is not a drug that is easy at all to taper with, the person would just want to get their dosage. In that respect I was only able to get off of tramadol for 1 month once I had no access to it. I relapsed from a combination of still feeling depressed (w/d like) and aches, and the fact that CVS called me like a drug dealer and told me my tramadol was ready.

Blah...now I have tramadol still...and I only took my correct dosage today...and I still have school. I was an idiot and now i'm paying for it.

 

[tremours]

how many mgs are in each tramadol pill cause the few times ive taken them ive took about 6 at a time, but ive never realy felt them. Of course i was only taking them to try and hold of the h withdrawals for a while but i was wondering how many would constitute a recreational dose

 

[Bojangles69]

Average tram formulations are 50mg a pill /\ so you prob took 300mg. But if you were battling H wds thats most likely the reason you didn't feel it. Tram is nothing compared to the strength of H.

If I have no tolerance to opiates at all it usually takes 200mg to feel tram. Then as soon as the next day I have to raise the dose to 250mg. Anytime I've ever used tram it IS like other opiates in the respect of your tolerance going up, but it doesn't feel like a narcotic opiate at all (well its not a narcotic to begin lol). Its more of a "thin" opiate feeling that a full out nodding type opiate.
If I take it for a week straight I usually gotta take around 350mg-400mg, and this is prob why I never considered tram as "highly addictive" as usernamehere does. Even when you increase the amount, it still lacks punch, and in a matter of weeks the tram feels like I'm taking a bit of caffiene and ibuprofen.

I understand how people get addicted to it, and I DO get great effects from it at first, but after that its not even as fun as codiene. It becomes so weak I often question WHY anyone would want to abuse it past a few weeks max. And thats also why I've never had any wds from it.
I sometimes wonder looking at some of these tram addictions people have how these people would handle an actual narcotic opiate. I mean yeh its an ok drug to use for a week or 2, but it really is ridiculously weak. And to add, when I see people claiming they get "disproportionately strong wds", from a drug you can't even feel after a certain point, it makes me wonder why the hell they would want to take it in the first place.

At least pods/oxy/morphine you can still feel somewhat after tolerance builds. With tram you have to stop at some sort of dose to avoid seizures, and I would imagine once you stick to that dose for a shortwhile you're not even gonna feel it a tiny bit. I'm not minimizing the drugs addictive potential, but more trying to vent logical reasons why not to abuse it. Like I said before, drink some coffee and take an ibuprofen, you're basically gonna be getting the same feelings anyway in only a short amount of time on tram.

 

[Colmes]

Average tram formulations are 50mg a pill /\ so you prob took 300mg. But if you were battling H wds thats most likely the reason you didn't feel it. Tram is nothing compared to the strength of H.

If I have no tolerance to opiates at all it usually takes 200mg to feel tram. Then as soon as the next day I have to raise the dose to 250mg. Anytime I've ever used tram it IS like other opiates in the respect of your tolerance going up, but it doesn't feel like a narcotic opiate at all (well its not a narcotic to begin lol). Its more of a "thin" opiate feeling that a full out nodding type opiate.
If I take it for a week straight I usually gotta take around 350mg-400mg, and this is prob why I never considered tram as "highly addictive" as usernamehere does. Even when you increase the amount, it still lacks punch, and in a matter of weeks the tram feels like I'm taking a bit of caffiene and ibuprofen.

I understand how people get addicted to it, and I DO get great effects from it at first, but after that its not even as fun as codiene. It becomes so weak I often question WHY anyone would want to abuse it past a few weeks max. And thats also why I've never had any wds from it.
I sometimes wonder looking at some of these tram addictions people have how these people would handle an actual narcotic opiate. I mean yeh its an ok drug to use for a week or 2, but it really is ridiculously weak. And to add, when I see people claiming they get "disproportionately strong wds", from a drug you can't even feel after a certain point, it makes me wonder why the hell they would want to take it in the first place.

At least pods/oxy/morphine you can still feel somewhat after tolerance builds. With tram you have to stop at some sort of dose to avoid seizures, and I would imagine once you stick to that dose for a shortwhile you're not even gonna feel it a tiny bit. I'm not minimizing the drugs addictive potential, but more trying to vent logical reasons why not to abuse it. Like I said before, drink some coffee and take an ibuprofen, you're basically gonna be getting the same feelings anyway in only a short amount of time on tram.

I guess both myself...the moderator "User Name Here" in this thread...and the hundreds of other testimonials or posts i've read on the web; or heard from friends, also imagined the w/d being particularly bad. gosh darn imagination, if only you had been there when i was at my worst I could have felt all better. But seriously...

Firstly; I started with vicodin and such...then I started to use oxy with my friends on the weekends, and after awhile; it was all I thought about. tolerance was rising quickly, and they are very expensive. I got about 40 2mg sub to get off the long oxy habit...and it ended up being more of a replacement until I ran out. My doctor then prescribed me tramadol saying it may help with the situation I was in...and that...is how I got addicted to tramadol!!! I have a prescription!!!

Secondly, tramadol is notorious for giving pretty bad withdrawls (I know considering i've had to w/d from oxy and sub....both half year habits. Ive also had to wd from a several year addiction to amphetamines so...do not tell me how I should feel w/d. I know what it is, and tramadol gives it.
The reason why it is worse than people expect is because; as many have said; its live going through opiate and anti-depressant w/d's at the same time.

Why don't I use oxycontin or morphine? Jeez I dunno....because I didnt like buying it...it ended up being all I thought about...it turned all my friends and myself into more scummy people. What happens when oxy stops doing the trick? would you recommend I safely IV it, go straight to heroin, or try oxymorphone?

Even though the dilemma is tricky with tramadol....i'd take it any day over what I was going through with the drugs you reccomend.

You may say you dont mean to dismiss my addiction but thats what your whole post says. its like saying "Youre fat, ugly, stupid and useless, but I'm not trying to be mean" in other words...you cant just end it with "just drink coffee and take an ibuprofen"

But since i'm sure thats really not the message you wanted to deliver; i'm sure you would offer caffeine and ibuprofen to someone during oxy withdrawal.

 

[Bojangles69]

Look I'm not here to debate your powerful addiction to weak opoid. And I think your hypervigilant attitude of "I always get disproportionately worse wds" is only giving you excuses to use. I've never met an opiate addict my whole life who said "hey you know those wds were pretty 'fair' this time around". They are ALL SEVERELY "disproportionate. And you might not realize it, but in a way you discredit other people who are wding from tram, making it seem like they're having an easier time just cause they're not complaining. Again, not true.

Do I believe you are prob getting certain symptoms worse? Yes. Should that keep becoming a reason for you to relapse? No. And if you were addicted to something like oxy what would that lead to? I'll tell you what, exactly what you've been led to with tram, relapsing.

I wasn't dismissing your addiction, I was dismissing your mindset. And I'm sure thats what really offended you.
By "drink some coffee and take an ibuprofen" I'm trying to mirro the fact that thats basically what tram feels like after a few weeks. Do you disagree? I mean even a stronger opiate isn't worth it after a certain amount of time my whole point is its NOT WORTH being addicted to.
And if you made it weeks out, and were depressed, but ALREADY taking prozac, would it have been much harder to try something like effexor out?
Was it the depression that compulsively triggered you to go back to tram?

And you said effexor doesn't effect mu opiate receptors and you're wrong. Its NOT an opiate, but its been proven that it effect those receptors.
"effexor has the tertiary amine functional group necessary for µ-opioid receptor recognition (cf. lefetamine), and indeed, Venlafaxine acts as an agonist at the mu-opioid receptor". I don't hear that it has opiate wds at all, so maybe that would be worth a try for you?

You can obviously just stay on the tram your idiot dr keeps prescribing you but you're just gonna have to come off it at some point anyway. You're in school, and you might as well try to get clean now once and for all. I'm trying to do the same thing with a different opiate, and I don't think I'm even slightly smarter or better than you in any way, but what are your plans now? Keep using tram? Are you gonna stop?
Maybe try effexor out? Just make up a lie and tell your doc the prozac was making you anxious and that you read effexor works better for opiate wds, I'm sure he won't wind switching things up.

I'm not trying to piss you off bro theres a ton of people in bad situations in this world and we're all trying to get better for the most part. Its certaintly not easy. And I had to go back to school 18 days after stopping which has so far sucked pretty majorly. But I still see going back to opiates as just prolonging the misery. I want to get the misery out of the way NOW, I can't afford pushing it off any longer in my life.
And not cause I can't "afford" it money wise, cause my MIND can't afford it anymore. Maybe your mind can afford it, idk. We want to see you get clean dude what are you plans now? Seriously I'd like to know.

And what part of NJ are you from? I'm in central NJ.

 

[Colmes]

Look I'm not here to debate your powerful addiction to weak opoid. And I think your hypervigilant attitude of "I always get disproportionately worse wds" is only giving you excuses to use. I've never met an opiate addict my whole life who said "hey you know those wds were pretty 'fair' this time around". They are ALL SEVERELY "disproportionate. And you might not realize it, but in a way you discredit other people who are wding from tram, making it seem like they're having an easier time just cause they're not complaining. Again, not true.

Do I believe you are prob getting certain symptoms worse? Yes. Should that keep becoming a reason for you to relapse? No. And if you were addicted to something like oxy what would that lead to? I'll tell you what, exactly what you've been led to with tram, relapsing.

I wasn't dismissing your addiction, I was dismissing your mindset. And I'm sure thats what really offended you.
By "drink some coffee and take an ibuprofen" I'm trying to mirro the fact that thats basically what tram feels like after a few weeks. Do you disagree? I mean even a stronger opiate isn't worth it after a certain amount of time my whole point is its NOT WORTH being addicted to.
And if you made it weeks out, and were depressed, but ALREADY taking prozac, would it have been much harder to try something like effexor out?
Was it the depression that compulsively triggered you to go back to tram?

And you said effexor doesn't effect mu opiate receptors and you're wrong. Its NOT an opiate, but its been proven that it effect those receptors.
"effexor has the tertiary amine functional group necessary for µ-opioid receptor recognition (cf. lefetamine), and indeed, Venlafaxine acts as an agonist at the mu-opioid receptor". I don't hear that it has opiate wds at all, so maybe that would be worth a try for you?

You can obviously just stay on the tram your idiot dr keeps prescribing you but you're just gonna have to come off it at some point anyway. You're in school, and you might as well try to get clean now once and for all. I'm trying to do the same thing with a different opiate, and I don't think I'm even slightly smarter or better than you in any way, but what are your plans now? Keep using tram? Are you gonna stop?
Maybe try effexor out? Just make up a lie and tell your doc the prozac was making you anxious and that you read effexor works better for opiate wds, I'm sure he won't wind switching things up.

I'm not trying to piss you off bro theres a ton of people in bad situations in this world and we're all trying to get better for the most part. Its certaintly not easy. And I had to go back to school 18 days after stopping which has so far sucked pretty majorly. But I still see going back to opiates as just prolonging the misery. I want to get the misery out of the way NOW, I can't afford pushing it off any longer in my life.
And not cause I can't "afford" it money wise, cause my MIND can't afford it anymore. Maybe your mind can afford it, idk. We want to see you get clean dude what are you plans now? Seriously I'd like to know.

And what part of NJ are you from? I'm in central NJ.

Well I am trying to do a slow taper, after now jumping down strictly to my prescribed dose (thats doing a lot unfortunately, but I can handle it). I want to get clean off of opiates (the real hard part); thank you for asking.

I want to clarify what I meant when I said "proportionally bad withdrawals"

I meant that when compared to the amount of euphoria (not much, as you have experienced, and so have I) that the drug, tramadol, gives you - in comparison with its withdrawal symptoms - is uneven. I am not comparing it to any other drug, but having withdrawn from sub and oxy, it was worse yes, but at least those drugs got me fucked up; now I am prescribed a non scheduled drug named tramadol. A drug generally looked at as not a "big deal" regarding addiction by the FDA or doctors it seems, judging by it's schedule, to simply act as a sort of "very weak, very mild form of suboxone" I wasnt addicted to heroin. and hey, I didn't make it up, Tramadol is often prescribed at times for opiate withdrawal or maintenance.

Yeah I guess I was addicted to when you said "coffee and ibuprofen" but to alleviate the withdrawals, I needed much more than I ever "felt" tramadol do. There was definitely a chemical war in my brain. Then I start it again, does it make me happy? Happy because i'm not withdrawaling anymore and taking a bunch of immodium; and getting off the couch. Then, unhappy once I realize i'm back where I began, and I was beaten. I'm 24, sometimes people don't really want to quit until the age of 35...45...55...some never get the chance to quit. I know I want to, its just really hard when that devil in your brain tells you "c'mon just take it....you wont feel like shit anymore; you could just take it for one day". Something both of us know the coffee and asprin wouldn't do much to help ;P. I understand your point, I do.


Regarding the effexor comment: "Chemistry Characteristics - "

Structurally, tramadol closely resembles a stripped down version of codeine. Both codeine and tramadol share the 3-methyl ether group, and both compounds are metabolized along the same hepatic pathway and mechanism to the stronger opioid, phenol agonist analogs. For codeine, this is morphine, and for tramadol, it is the M1 metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol. The closest chemical relative of tramadol in clinical use is venlafaxine (Effexor), an SSNRI. The two molecules are nearly identical. Both tramadol and venlafaxine share SSNRI properties, while venlafaxine is devoid of any opioid effects."

- source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

I read it can really help with some parts of tramadol w/d, and it does, along with other antidepressants. Not at all with the opioid end, of course.


I know, we all want to get off opiates (well, not all of us, but those who have had enough) I know all I did was prolong it, but like others i'm far from perfect. I had anxiety going into this addiction, making opiates so great to me at the time, and trying to get off them, even tramadol which doesn't really do much to fuck you up once your tolerance is built up, really brings back that anxiety you had before you ever heard the word "Oxycontin".

I'm from NNJ, nice area, cant complain.

 

[paranoid android]

You can get tramadol so easy in canada it's not even funny. Well actually it kinda is because it shows just how stupid doctors are and how they will swallow anything the drug reps tell them. They push it as a non addictive painkiller and mild opioid. It's not classified as a narcotic thus they can give out samples of tramadol. And give them out they do indeed like candy and they seem to think the shit is like morphine for fuck sakes. It's near useless for pain and the only other opioid i can think of that is more useless then it is propoxyphene. Yeah know the stuff in darvon and darvocet. We all know how great that one is 8)

So this is just another example of how stupid doctors are and the vast majority of them have no idea that tramadol is a anti-depressant and is a SNRI. How strong of a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor it is compared to say effexor or cymbalta i don't know. It is strong enough of a SNRI to make me manic though which is another reason why i hate tramadol.

I really feel bad for anyone going through tramadol withdrawal as it seems to be one of the harder ones to withdraw from. I have never used it for more then a few days in a row due to the fear of becoming dependant on it and having to go through SNRI withdrawals. I went through those coming off effexor and OMFG it was brutal. It was worse then opiate withdrawals and ive come off oxycodone, morphine and hydromorphone. I have had IV habits with dilaudid and morphine and i would have to say the effexor withdrawal was worse and lasted forever even though i was only on the stuff for maybe a month and a half at most! Fuck that shit

Anyway the only advice i can give you is maybe keep trying to taper with the prozac and that way atleast the brain zaps won't be hitting you and the anti-depressant withdrawals should be abit easier. If you taper taper and taper like a motherfucker it should be easier.

Good luck

 

[Colmes]

You can get tramadol so easy in canada it's not even funny. Well actually it kinda is because it shows just how stupid doctors are and how they will swallow anything the drug reps tell them. They push it as a non addictive painkiller and mild opioid. It's not classified as a narcotic thus they can give out samples of tramadol. And give them out they do indeed like candy and they seem to think the shit is like morphine for fuck sakes. It's near useless for pain and the only other opioid i can think of that is more useless then it is propoxyphene. Yeah know the stuff in darvon and darvocet. We all know how great that one is 8)

So this is just another example of how stupid doctors are and the vast majority of them have no idea that tramadol is a anti-depressant and is a SNRI. How strong of a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor it is compared to say effexor or cymbalta i don't know. It is strong enough of a SNRI to make me manic though which is another reason why i hate tramadol.

I really feel bad for anyone going through tramadol withdrawal as it seems to be one of the harder ones to withdraw from. I have never used it for more then a few days in a row due to the fear of becoming dependant on it and having to go through SNRI withdrawals. I went through those coming off effexor and OMFG it was brutal. It was worse then opiate withdrawals and ive come off oxycodone, morphine and hydromorphone. I have had IV habits with dilaudid and morphine and i would have to say the effexor withdrawal was worse and lasted forever even though i was only on the stuff for maybe a month and a half at most! Fuck that shit

Anyway the only advice i can give you is maybe keep trying to taper with the prozac and that way atleast the brain zaps won't be hitting you and the anti-depressant withdrawals should be abit easier. If you taper taper and taper like a motherfucker it should be easier.

Good luck

Thanks man. I completely agree with you in that doctors prescribe it on the premise that it is a safe non addictive non narcotic, non scheduled version of other pain medications. It is not as effective, it barely helps with any pain. I also agree they do not know the full strength of its effects of serotonin and norepinephrine that tramadol has, and how that effects the severity of cessation of tramadol.

I know it was originally marketed as an anti depressant a few decades ago - then they noticed that about 1% of people had seizures in doses over 400mg, so it was rejected by the FDA. They however found that the test group experienced the pain relieving qualities and that is the story of how we were blessed with tramadol as a pain medication in doses of less than 400mg.

Thank you for your input. I will taper and taper as slow as I want. I used to take about 60mg of valium (often times more, just popping a couple on a whim)....I slowly tapered and now I take 25mg. Its not the most amazing thing, but i'm still tapering, and have experienced little or no discomfort. I suppose I will be patient and apply the same very slow tapering techniques, and follow one rule I read regarding benzo titration: never increase your dosage.

Good-luck to you too man; sounds like you have been through your fair share from this post and all the others I have read of yours, so I thank ya and respect your opinion.

 

[Bojangles69]

Well I am trying to do a slow taper, after now jumping down strictly to my prescribed dose (thats doing a lot unfortunately, but I can handle it). I want to get clean off of opiates (the real hard part); thank you for asking.

I want to clarify what I meant when I said "proportionally bad withdrawals"

I meant that when compared to the amount of euphoria (not much, as you have experienced, and so have I) that the drug, tramadol, gives you - in comparison with its withdrawal symptoms - is uneven. I am not comparing it to any other drug, but having withdrawn from sub and oxy, it was worse yes, but at least those drugs got me fucked up; now I am prescribed a non scheduled drug named tramadol. A drug generally looked at as not a "big deal" regarding addiction by the FDA or doctors it seems, judging by it's schedule, to simply act as a sort of "very weak, very mild form of suboxone" I wasnt addicted to heroin. and hey, I didn't make it up, Tramadol is often prescribed at times for opiate withdrawal or maintenance.

Yeah I guess I was addicted to when you said "coffee and ibuprofen" but to alleviate the withdrawals, I needed much more than I ever "felt" tramadol do. There was definitely a chemical war in my brain. Then I start it again, does it make me happy? Happy because i'm not withdrawaling anymore and taking a bunch of immodium; and getting off the couch. Then, unhappy once I realize i'm back where I began, and I was beaten. I'm 24, sometimes people don't really want to quit until the age of 35...45...55...some never get the chance to quit. I know I want to, its just really hard when that devil in your brain tells you "c'mon just take it....you wont feel like shit anymore; you could just take it for one day". Something both of us know the coffee and asprin wouldn't do much to help ;P. I understand your point, I do.


Regarding the effexor comment: "Chemistry Characteristics - "

Structurally, tramadol closely resembles a stripped down version of codeine. Both codeine and tramadol share the 3-methyl ether group, and both compounds are metabolized along the same hepatic pathway and mechanism to the stronger opioid, phenol agonist analogs. For codeine, this is morphine, and for tramadol, it is the M1 metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol. The closest chemical relative of tramadol in clinical use is venlafaxine (Effexor), an SSNRI. The two molecules are nearly identical. Both tramadol and venlafaxine share SSNRI properties, while venlafaxine is devoid of any opioid effects."

- source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

I read it can really help with some parts of tramadol w/d, and it does, along with other antidepressants. Not at all with the opioid end, of course.


I know, we all want to get off opiates (well, not all of us, but those who have had enough) I know all I did was prolong it, but like others i'm far from perfect. I had anxiety going into this addiction, making opiates so great to me at the time, and trying to get off them, even tramadol which doesn't really do much to fuck you up once your tolerance is built up, really brings back that anxiety you had before you ever heard the word "Oxycontin".

I'm from NNJ, nice area, cant complain.

Bro I'm basically in the same spot as you which is why I think I was honestly being a bit of a dick at first.
I too stopped my DOC a few weeks ago, right before school. And I can tell you about 4-5 days ago I was within seconds from taking some sub just to get a little perk so I could get up and do things.

The opiate wds really aren't what gets me. Its sitting around afterwards knowing you should be doing shit, but not being able to really do anything.
It gets depressing, and sometimes scary as to how long it will all actually last. Everday I wake up now and tell myself "another day of hell, just to get closer to normalcy", and many days I DO just want to relapse. It almost seems worth it at points just to delay this shit hole of a life for another day or 2. So I'm definitley not trying to tell you relapsing is wrong or bad blah blah.

Just get back on your feet like you already seem to have been doing. In all reality, you seem to have a genuine desire to want to quit. So I think its inevitable in your near future you will be clean and stable off the trams. I wish opiate wds were just 4-6 days of feeling physically ill, and then after that life was all grand again. But its almost like god has to make us pay back for every single day we chose to get high haha. Well its not that bad, I only used 18 months total this time around and i guess in the last 3 weeks things have "gotten better". But for the most part it still blows unbelievably.

I mean I think I'm at day 20-21 today and I still have absolutely NO URGE to be productive. I was suppose to get my resume out to this place 3 days ago, school started and I STILL haven't bought books. All I wanna do is just lay/sit down all day and pass time till I feel better. But I could be doing that for the next 3-4 months for all I know.
If it takes that long I prob will relapse in reality. But I guess the secret is one day at a time. I don't really fucking know what the secret is tbo, but if you find out be sure to let me know lol.

Good luck!

 

[Colmes]

Bro I'm basically in the same spot as you which is why I think I was honestly being a bit of a dick at first.
I too stopped my DOC a few weeks ago, right before school. And I can tell you about 4-5 days ago I was within seconds from taking some sub just to get a little perk so I could get up and do things.

The opiate wds really aren't what gets me. Its sitting around afterwards knowing you should be doing shit, but not being able to really do anything.
It gets depressing, and sometimes scary as to how long it will all actually last. Everday I wake up now and tell myself "another day of hell, just to get closer to normalcy", and many days I DO just want to relapse. It almost seems worth it at points just to delay this shit hole of a life for another day or 2. So I'm definitley not trying to tell you relapsing is wrong or bad blah blah.

Just get back on your feet like you already seem to have been doing. In all reality, you seem to have a genuine desire to want to quit. So I think its inevitable in your near future you will be clean and stable off the trams. I wish opiate wds were just 4-6 days of feeling physically ill, and then after that life was all grand again. But its almost like god has to make us pay back for every single day we chose to get high haha. Well its not that bad, I only used 18 months total this time around and i guess in the last 3 weeks things have "gotten better". But for the most part it still blows unbelievably.

I mean I think I'm at day 20-21 today and I still have absolutely NO URGE to be productive. I was suppose to get my resume out to this place 3 days ago, school started and I STILL haven't bought books. All I wanna do is just lay/sit down all day and pass time till I feel better. But I could be doing that for the next 3-4 months for all I know.
If it takes that long I prob will relapse in reality. But I guess the secret is one day at a time. I don't really fucking know what the secret is tbo, but if you find out be sure to let me know lol.

Good luck!

Thanks bro, I appreciate it. We just had a misunderstanding. When you say "I'm on day 20-21 today and I still have absolutely NO URGE to be productive" I know how you feel 1000000%. I always read w/d from opiates was 4-6 days. I thought to myself...thats like the flu, it sucks but I could do it. I thought I was strange for feeling after weeks and weeks later still having no motivation, looking like crap, huge appetite, anxiety and so fatigued. I'm sorry if that sounds very ignorant...I guess when you're in w/d you always feel like you're the only one in the world going through it.

My dad is so fucking strict...he will get in my face and scream, its never physical, but it leaves me feeling pathetic. Hes right he has a great job, while im constantly always withdrawaling from something - so I start again to be productive. He is successful and pays for my college education, my room, and hes a great person (with quite poor interpersonal skills with his children). I end up feeling so guilty....so stupid....so low....i feel like the w/d will never end, and then I relapse. You are right; i need to taper slowly. Thats the advice i'd say to someone, but I don't follow my own advice.

Thanks man for the good vibes, I am going to get off of opiates, and you stay strong man. You got 3 weeks man, 3 weeks more than a lot of people including me. I wish I never started it again. Its alright you attacked me haha, on week 3 I woulda snapped at anyone, and a bit of tough love is alright - not that i believe much love was involved haha. Stay strong and BE WELL!

 

[Bojangles69]

Thanks man and having a parent like that really has its pros and cons. My mom is basically the same way or was the same way just a few years ago when I use to live at home.
I still go over there several days a week and I honestly ask myself "how the hell did I put up with this shit when I lived here?". I don't think parents realize they do that to their children but the amount of shit you must be swallowing from your dad is more than enough to make you wanna relapse.

"You're always so lazy!!"
"Why can't you be more like your brother/sister?"
"You need to just get a job and grow up"
"Kids these days are so ungreatful"
"When I went had problems at your age I NEVER even thought of using drugs"

blah blah blah OMG its making me anxious just remembering it all. My parents are great people, and use to be exactly like your dad maybe 10 years ago. But I think at some point when they kept seeing me go back to drugs it started to break down the their insensitivity to addiction.
In a sick kind of way I had to teach my parents that addiction was real just by all the shit I put myself through. I also had to teach them overtime that when they can't be sensitive to my needs while getting clean, that I'm simply not going to succeed at it. Even just a couple years ago my mom sounded a lot like your dad. I was trying to get off once and for all and she told me to consider *homeopathy* TO GET OFF OPIATES. Are you serious? Homeopathy? It just shows how little familiarity some parents have with addiction.

I'd be better off eating the grass in my backyard lol. But long story short at that point I said fuck drugs, fuck parents, and went the suicide route. And I think that taught them how to be sensitive pretty quick.
Obviously not recommending it, but just to give you a different perspective maybe on things. What you're going through IS easily enough to drive one to suicide. The parent factor alone can trigger it. So you are definitely one strong fucking 24 year old. As crappy a situation you're in you still have a clear focus of what you need to do. Just take your time, be easy on yourself, and even if you relapse a couple more times just treat it more like a "vacation from paws". People are against the idea but it can actually help you get your mind in order for a few days. At least I know 2 months back when I had 8 days clean, I went back for a couple weeks, then tapered off again, and the wds were MUCH EASIER to deal with. The paws too.
In reality, as long as you slowly are always keeping the dose lower and lower as time passes, you inevitably get closer and closer to freedom no matter what. I think you are past the fun part, and genuinely want to quit. And I don't think you'll have as much trouble stopping as you might think now. You ARE in a bit of a sticky point, but you sound like someone whos simply determined to stop no matter what. So I'm confident in believing that you will definitely get there.
Just don't be so hard on yourself and good luck!! I'd like to see us both with some clean time maybe around Nov/Dec. I have it now but depending on how paws holds out I may have to take a "vacation" myself. Either way I'll get through it. Take care!

 

[Colmes]

Thanks man and having a parent like that really has its pros and cons. My mom is basically the same way or was the same way just a few years ago when I use to live at home.
I still go over there several days a week and I honestly ask myself "how the hell did I put up with this shit when I lived here?". I don't think parents realize they do that to their children but the amount of shit you must be swallowing from your dad is more than enough to make you wanna relapse.

"You're always so lazy!!"
"Why can't you be more like your brother/sister?"
"You need to just get a job and grow up"
"Kids these days are so ungreatful"
"When I went had problems at your age I NEVER even thought of using drugs"

blah blah blah OMG its making me anxious just remembering it all. My parents are great people, and use to be exactly like your dad maybe 10 years ago. But I think at some point when they kept seeing me go back to drugs it started to break down the their insensitivity to addiction.
In a sick kind of way I had to teach my parents that addiction was real just by all the shit I put myself through. I also had to teach them overtime that when they can't be sensitive to my needs while getting clean, that I'm simply not going to succeed at it. Even just a couple years ago my mom sounded a lot like your dad. I was trying to get off once and for all and she told me to consider *homeopathy* TO GET OFF OPIATES. Are you serious? Homeopathy? It just shows how little familiarity some parents have with addiction.

I'd be better off eating the grass in my backyard lol. But long story short at that point I said fuck drugs, fuck parents, and went the suicide route. And I think that taught them how to be sensitive pretty quick.
Obviously not recommending it, but just to give you a different perspective maybe on things. What you're going through IS easily enough to drive one to suicide. The parent factor alone can trigger it. So you are definitely one strong fucking 24 year old. As crappy a situation you're in you still have a clear focus of what you need to do. Just take your time, be easy on yourself, and even if you relapse a couple more times just treat it more like a "vacation from paws". People are against the idea but it can actually help you get your mind in order for a few days. At least I know 2 months back when I had 8 days clean, I went back for a couple weeks, then tapered off again, and the wds were MUCH EASIER to deal with. The paws too.
In reality, as long as you slowly are always keeping the dose lower and lower as time passes, you inevitably get closer and closer to freedom no matter what. I think you are past the fun part, and genuinely want to quit. And I don't think you'll have as much trouble stopping as you might think now. You ARE in a bit of a sticky point, but you sound like someone whos simply determined to stop no matter what. So I'm confident in believing that you will definitely get there.
Just don't be so hard on yourself and good luck!! I'd like to see us both with some clean time maybe around Nov/Dec. I have it now but depending on how paws holds out I may have to take a "vacation" myself. Either way I'll get through it. Take care!

Thanks for the kind words, really you described it perfectly. "Parents just dont understand" went from being a corny lyric from will smith to being the absolute truth.

I'm always told whatever i'm doing is the wrong thing...I can't believe i'm sane at all still being here. I moved back from california when I was 22 - I loved living 3000 miles away with my now ex fiancee. When I got back I felt the same way....but then at the same time despite all of the criticizing they do, they also care...and are so generous.

My mom tells me to just stop taking any pills; as if you can just completely stop valium. I told her my progress "I'll believe that you stopped when I see it" - that kinda attitude from my parents. Ah suicide, everyone thinks about it sometimes, if all problems could just go away, but ...i'm not sure if one could "know" this, but I would not ever commit suicide. I mean that if i'm healthy, not getting into the euthanasia debate hah.

Plus my younger brother who is 21....was into oxy, benzos, and uppers but went away to rehab this summer...and to his credit...he is clean. I am happy for him, but...well it sounds selfish....but I do feel more alone in the family now. I don't wish he were back to where he was, but I feel like the black sheep at times.

I thought hey, maybe a girlfriend would cheer me up. So i went looking and found someone within a couple weeks (lucky shot) and began dating. She was really really into me...she was nice, caring, very pretty....but I was so nervous all the time - weather it was pills, pressure from my parents, or from myself telling me i'm no good, I couldnt maintain it. I dissapeared (didnt answer calls for a week or so) from her several times...each time I told her sorry I was going through w/d from some drug, which I was. But I made promises about when I would be better, promises I could not keep. I didnt even want to have sex with her (wasnt interested in sex too much generally speaking, we had a lot of relations but it was not something I was like YES awesome! it felt more obligatory)...i chalk that up to my anxiety and depression over this quagmire i've gotten myself in. That lasted several months, and it ended by me saying sorry i'm not ready for a relationship.

So, nope a girl didnt do the trick, she was a nice one too.
I just want to get my BA, so I can get a job that doesnt exist in our economy, and live happily ever after.

Im ranting, sorry. But again i'm glad to know other people know what this is like. I never really doubted that they did...but to hear it, well, lets me know I may not be so crazy after all, just a guy in his mid 20s trying to figure it all out.